I know. Those three things (rebelling, finding a girlfriend, and getting away from bodswood) were intended to be separate entities, not parts of a whole. I realize that my writing inadequately conveys this.
So: I hope his daughter rebels, rejecting bodswood’s worldview. I also hope his daughter finds a girlfriend. Finally, I hope she gets away from him as soon as possible.
And all the evidence the real world provides doesn’t sway you from this position? Is there anything that would? 'Cause, you know… you’re just wrong.
Why? Why a girlfriend? Why do you hope that she have a specific sexual preference? She is who she is, and she is going to be who she is. Hoping that she have a specific sexual preference is peculiar. It’s almost like hoping that she were a boy, or hoping that she had dark hair, or light hair, something like that, just to spite her father. You are wishing that she be something that is beyond her control; not her choice, and it’s her life we’re talking about, not bodsworth’s. And you hope this, just, apparently, because it will piss off her father, not because you have any feelings about her. Once again, that’s peculiar.
I suppose I should hope that she get a boyfriend, just to spite you and deny you your wish (that his daughter get a girlfriend). It makes just about as much sense.
No, not to piss off her father, but to force him to confront reality.
“Confront reality”? Why? Why does she need to have a girlfriend in order for him to confront reality? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.
I can understand you wishing that she rebel against him, because you believe that he’s got some screwed up ideas and it would benefit her to get away from him. (In your viewpoint.) But why does she have to be some “lesson” for him, to force him to “confront reality”? Why can’t you just hope that she’ll just be whatever she’s gonna be, and have a boyfriend, or girlfriend, or both, just because that’s what’s best for her?
By your logic, I should hope that she has a boyfriend, so that it’ll force him to . . . oh, I dunno, but I’ll think of something. Or, I could hope that she’ll, oh, major in math or science or art, to force him to confront his feelings about those subjects. Or maybe I should wish that she move to California, or to Argentina, to force him to confront his feelings about those areas. Sounds kind of stupid, doesn’t it? Well, it does to me, anyway . . .
All I’m saying is that it’s very easy for bodswood to sit and be a lying hypocrit when the issue doesn’t hit close to him. If his daughter does indeed turn out to be a lesbian, it will, and he’ll be forced to deal with it. With a bit of luck, he’ll come around. That’s why I’m hoping for that to happen.
Well, that, and a couple of other reasons that are best dealt with in another thread.
You’re acting as if I want to sneak into bodswood’s house at night and perform brain surgery on his daughter to turn her into a lesbian. Do you really believe that my “hoping” for something affects the outcome one tiny bit?
Of course I want what’s best for her, she’s done nothing to me. If she can get what’s best for her while at the same time contributing to bringing her father into the real world, that’s great. Am I not allowed to hope for that?
I’m not particularly hoping for her to get a boyfriend, or major in maths or science, or move to California or Argentina, although she should of course do those things if they’re what she wants. If bodswood had displayed the same intolerance and wilful ignorance about California as he has about homosexuality, I might very well hope for her to move to California.
I think Priceguy’s been watching too much TV.
Teenage dabbling in “lesbianity” is a hot plot twist, much overused these days. It’s done only to appeal to prurient interest.
I was being nitpicky, I admit. 
But without adding the caveat of “if that’s what’s best for her,” it’s hard to say whether you give a damn about her feelings or not. I mean, I’d assume you do, but you really didn’t give any mention of it.
But you didn’t, specifically, hope for “what’s best for her.” You hoped that she’d have a girlfriend.
If I hoped that she have a boyfriend, and not a girlfriend, because I felt that it’s something that I would like to see happen, do you doubt that someone, somewhere, wouldn’t question me about it? “Why do you specifically hope that she have a boyfriend? What if she really wants a girlfriend instead?” Of course someone would say that to me. And that’s all I’m saying to you.
If anyone wants to believe that I’m hoping for bodswood’s daughter to be straight but get a girlfriend for complex psychological reasons and live a life of denial and self-loathing… I suppose they can. I hope my point is clear.
Huh? What are you talking about?
No, I wasn’t saying that. I was just saying that wishing or preferring a specific sexual preference for somebody else, just to “teach their dad a lesson,” is likely to cause people to ask you questions. And rightfully so.
Why don’t you try, maybe, thinking for yourself?
And you still haven’t answered my direct question to you. Do you support removing MY son from my and my lesbian ex-wife’s custody? If homos are unfit to adopt, why are we fit to have a kid of our own making?
Puh-leze. There’s tons of young girl-on-girl making-out on TV these days. And almost none of it is done to seriously explore gay issues.
It’s done to turn on young male viewers.
I’ll have to take your word for it.
I’m sure.
I’m sure.
Are you going to be coming around to the bit where you explain what this has to do with what I wrote and how that gave you the impression that I watched too much TV any time soon?
bodswood, there are things emphatically wrong with your POV, which people have been pointing out in droves. (BTW, if you haven’t already encountered them, you might want to take a look at the alternative gay-friendly interpretations on those Scripture passages. Diogenes and I, among others, have done GD threads where they’re dissected and laid out with the malakoi and the arsenokaites clearly labeled. ;))
But in the midst of the Pitting you’re getting, I just want to say that, while I do disagree with you, I think your position is head and shoulders above some ostracize-the-unrepentant-sinners of the “Of course it’s a choice; God wouldn’t create someone who was predisposed to what He calls an abomination” frame of mind (using “mind” a bit loosely there ;)). You’re walking a tightrope which most people fall off on the judgmental side, and so far not doing too horrible.
But let me give you my understanding of Matthew 7:1-2 – contrary to first impressions, and basing one’s view on other Bible passages, it’s not a strict literal injunction never to judge – but an “As you sow, so shall you reap” passage. We’re counseled not to judge others (negatively being implied), for the measure by which we judge is the measure by which we are judged. Therefore as we ourselves wish to be judged with forgiveness, mercy, and compassion, it becomes incumbent on us to judge others with forgiveness, mercy, and compassion.
And kudos to Greathouse and Ellis Dee. I appreciate it. 
Wow. It takes a certain kind of fanatic to disregard all scientific evidence and go with a stupid, uninformed personal opinion just because one can’t imagine a God larger than a bread box.
I think we can all write off anything on this topic as being valuable the moment you ascribe anything positive to it. You’re like those Arabs who think The Protocols of Zion is a wonderful book on Judaism.
As someone whose parents called him a “disgustin pervert” who will “die of AIDS,” and who forced me into going to psychotherapy after I came out (in which a family friend and psychiatrist told me that my parents were basically being assholes and that there was really nothing wrong with me other than a mild depression brought on by having assholes for parents), I think you’re giving humanity too much credit.
If Bods were to find out his daughter were gay, he’d do what any good Christian of his stripe would do…
disown and hate her.
I really don’t care what Bodswood, or anyone else, thinks of me or the relationship I have with my partner. If he chooses to believe in an obsolete, subjective code of ethics, that’s his problem, not mine.
But when people start expecting me to abide by their own religious beliefs, they’ve crossed the line. I don’t hear Orthodox Jews condemning other people’s eating of pork, and I don’t hear Amish people condemning other people’s driving of cars. So why do fundamentalist Christians (and, I might add, Muslims) demand that the whole world lives by their particular creed?
I haven’t got a shred of respect for people like this. And they’d better think twice, before attempting to dictate my behavior, not to mention my thoughts and feelings.
Priceguy, I’m going to echo spectrum’s feelings on this-I hope, for her sake, that she does NOT turn out to be gay, with her father’s attitudes.
Even if he does NOT disown her, even if he changes when he finds out-if she heard all that growing up, that’s liable to do some damage to her, if she DOES find out that she’s gay. It will lead her to believe her father will not accept her, and it will be pretty damn destructive to the poor girl.
spectrum-you don’t know that for certain. I’m not saying he’ll do a 180 and change his views completely, but that doesn’t mean he’ll kick her out and hate her. We don’t know WHAT he’ll do. He might change.
I think bodswood here has shown himself to be less of a hating type, and more of an ignorant and obtuse type.
We have proof here that people HAVE changed their views. Let me have that much faith in humanity that people can change.
(Now, if you were talking say, His4ever, I’d be right there with you)