Starcraft for PC question.

I just started playing it yesterday, finished Terran Mission #5 and tried to play an individual game. Well! How does the computer make all those units with all those improvements so quickly? I’m thinking the computer must either start with a whole buttload of guys, or-- it cheats.

Any hints on how to beat the computer? Without cheats? O.K., I wouldn’t mind knowing a few cheats but still, what do I need to do?

This is my 12-year-old son, our resident StarCraft expert, replying:

Odd that Mom would show me a post on my favorite game of all time. Anyway, I suppose I’d better answer your question.

Well, it would be pretty helpful if I knew which species you were playing, and which one the computer was. I’ll assume you were playing Terran, since you mention that you’ve only played the Terran campaign. I’m also going to assume you’re playing vanilla, which means regular SC, not Brood War.

First off, I can assure you that the computer DOES NOT cheat. It operates under the same conditions you do, e.g. four peons (workers, resource gatherers) and a resource gathering building. In fact, the A.I. makes it amazingly stupid and easily exploitable.

Basic Tips:

  1. WORKERS! WORKERS! Say it with me. WORKERS! I cannot stress this enough. SCVs are your top priority, actually. More resources means more units means winning.
  2. What map you play. This is actually very important; most strategies work best on maps like “The Lost Temple”. This is under the ladder folder. Play it. Love it. Live it. /exaggeration
  3. Build orders. Although it’s taken me months to master the basics, I’ll try to be simple (wish me luck). When I say “at 8” or “when you have 8” or some other number, I refer to your supply count.

Anyway.

At 8 supply, send one SCV to your choke, or ramp. Build a Supply Depot. Your goal is to build something called a “wallin”. You will use one or two Depots and a Barracks to “wall yourself in” and protect yourself from melee troops. Although this is important, SCVs, again, take priority. Don’t queue them up, though. You should only have 1 queued up at maximum.
At this point, what build order you use depends on the species you’re facing. I could type all night if I went into that.
4. Macro. Macro refers to your ability to use your economy. You should have multiple production facilities about 10 minutes into the game, assuming your economy can support it. It also means you should be building supply providers (Depots for Terran) before that &(%&$ annoying voice tells you that you need more. Lastly, keep your money down. If you have more than 1,000 minerals at any time, you are doing something wrong.
5. Expanding. This mostly depends on the build order. However, expanding is an important part of the game. Your resources will eventually run out at your first base (your “main”). If you don’t have another source, quit then, since you have lost. Although it’s difficult to make a blanket statement about when to expand, with Terran, you generally should have about 12 marines and medics or 3-4 tanks before doing so. (This depends on whether you’re using infantry or “metal”, which refers to units produced from Factories.) However, numerous strategies rely on expanding quickly. I’d advise lots and lots of practice.
6. AI Exploits. The AI is amazingly stupid. Have fun screwing with it when you get better. Without fail, the computer will ALWAYS rush (which is an early attack, usually within the first seven minutes). If you turtle (build a lot of defense, which you usually shouldn’t do) and tech to a unit like Battlecruisers, you should win. Don’t do this against people, though; they will easily outsmart you.

It’s hard to explain StarCraft in a single post. Well, I’d recommend www.infoceptor.com and the StarCraft: Brood War board on www.gamefaqs.com to learn more. Most people there are infinitely more knowledgeable than I am.


OK, this is Merejane again. I have no idea what my son said, but I hope and trust it will be helpful!

That sounds like good info… and if you ever get into Age of Kings (another wonderful RTS), drop me a line, I’m just getting back into it again. :slight_smile:

And yes… if you’ve played one game vs a computer, you’ve played them all. Still fun to bugger with 'em though, especially in some games like 7 comps vs you. I’m only up to 3 myself…

I’m at Age of Conquerors now, Speaker.. Well, Merejr I am playing Terran. I’ve only started yesterday and the first Missions are from Terran POV and I’ve got the building heirarchy almost understood.

I had the SCV’s going overtime, but only had enough time to build a barrack, engineering bay and working on a factory when the opposing forces came at me with Goliaths and Siege Tanks-- about 3 minutes into the game!

Hi Merejane. Nice to meetcha.

That sounds like good info… and if you ever get into Age of Kings (another wonderful RTS), drop me a line, I’m just getting back into it again. :slight_smile:

And yes… if you’ve played one game vs a computer, you’ve played them all. Still fun to bugger with 'em though, especially in some games like 7 comps vs you. I’m only up to 3 myself…

Finally, a post I know an answer to.
If you have Brood War, the best map to play against the computer is Big Game Hunters, under the webmaps folder. You get essentially unlimited minerals and gas, plus you start off in a piece of land that has only one ground approach–a bottleneck. It’s a great map to start off with because you can learn a lot about tactics, defense, and micromanaging. I’ve had some epic games on BGH, some going over five hours long and racking up 7000 kills.
The thing you need to work on most is speed. The computer is relentless with that. Use the hotkeys on your keyboard to skip having to use the mouse so often; you’ll save some precious seconds (and while that might not seem a lot, every second against the computer is important). The letter for a particular job are in yellow. For instance, building a Protoss photon cannon involves me clicking my probe, hitting b, then hitting c. Then all I have to do is click where I want it to go.
If you’re playing Terran, you need to understand that a line of siege tanks on defense is absolutey devestating. The best thing you can do is put a line of bunkers at your bottleneck, fill them with three marines and a firebat apiece, and put a line of siege tanks behind them. Behind (and beside) the tanks, put guard towers, and later, put a science vessel there. The bunkers will take care of close range attacks; the tanks will take care of distance; the towers will take care of arial bombardment, and the science vessel will give added range to see invisible units. You can also have an SCV repair anything that gets damaged. Love the terrans. :slight_smile:
While that’s happening, ring your base with towers to stop attacks on your flanks. Keep a few Valkyries there to stop problems with Zerg Guardians and Protoss Corsairs. And from there on, build an armada of battle cruisers and valkyries. <i>You will bury them. </i>

The first few minutes of the game will determine the outcome. When you start, follow Merejane’s advice, but place bunkers at the bottleneck instead of supply depots, build a barracks, and punch out marines as quickly as possible. If you can get four bunkers full of Marines (and a tower up), you will probably be able to stop the initial computer rush. If so, you have a good chance of winning the game.
My advice is to start on BGH with 4 teammates and 2 enemies. Then build up to three, then four, then five. Six of them against two of you I haven’t quite mastered yet. But I have had games where I’ve been the lone survivor and held off waves of four enemies at once. That’s one hell of a rush. :slight_smile:

Trust me. Look at my name! :slight_smile:

I know this sounds really bizarre, BigGirl, but the computer has NOTHING on a practiced human player. If you were to play against me, for example, you’d probably think I was cheating too. When I first started playing SC with my friends it was all we could do to beat one computer opponent, but now I can take on four or five by myself (or at least I could, I’m rusty now.)

You’ve got some good advice above, but I would suggest staying away from Big Game Hunters type maps. No offense to Firebat, but I personally think that having to deal with resource management is part of the charm of the game.

As far as meta-advice goes, learn the shortcut keys and use 'em. The seconds will help. With Zerg it doesn’t matter, but after you tell a Terran or Protoss unit to build something you can shift-right click on a resource patch before they start building, and then they’ll get back to work without being told a second time.

Continuously build units. If you can’t, you don’t have enough workers. If you’re playing Brood War, you need cloak detection early.

Attack constantly. If you’re just standing around you’re losing initiative.

Keep scouting the map, looking for enemy expansions, and securing territory for yourself.

But mostly, it’s just like anything else. After a little practice, you’ll be amazed at how fast you’re able to get things done, and you’ll have to go on to Battle.net for a challenge, at which point you’ll realize that the computer really does suck.

Good luck!
Use nasty sneaky powers. Broodling, irradiate, psi storm and others are highly annoying and occasionally fatal. Use hotkeys for these too.

That sounds like good info… and if you ever get into Age of Kings (another wonderful RTS), drop me a line, I’m just getting back into it again. :slight_smile:

And yes… if you’ve played one game vs a computer, you’ve played them all. Still fun to bugger with 'em though, especially in some games like 7 comps vs you. I’m only up to 3 myself…

You don’t need magic to beat 1 comp. And it’s probably more important early on to learn the basics and be able to run a single comp over.

By the by, I have unilaterally appointed CRorex the champion SDMB Starcraft/Brood War player.

Search MPSIMS for Starcraft threads, there are few, but some decent ones, including one in which I fully explicate the idiocy of BGH (although you can’t play anything else on BattleNet any more).

I’d say don’t even bother with playing single player, if you have an internet connection. Just get on BNet and get rocked a few times. You’ll ramp up your learning curve a lot quicker that way.

Well, if you’re playing a game where you make it up, pick a map and a number of computer opponents, here’s one sure fire way to win:

Send out an SCV, find their base, and attack it. If you get there before they build any fighters, their collectors will do nothing but collect. They won’t repair, they won’t build, they won’t attack. Eventually, you’ll destroy their base and win. Simple, huh?

You’ll also learn that, yes, the computer does in fact cheat. By the time you’ve got your second SCV made, the computer somehow has a total of about ten. When you play actual campaigns, the computer starts off with it’s forces already built, so there’s nothing too big there, but during manufactured games, I don’t know how, but the computer is able to spring things a lot faster than a typical player. I’ve played with some hardened veterans, and even though they figured out ways to combat up to six computer enemies at a time, they still produced a LOT less, and a lot slower than any of the computer opponents. Just part of what makes the game more challenging, I guess.

But try the SCV hunt thing. It works with any of the probes/zerg collecters as well.

This is my son again:

ARG! THE FORUM ATE MY POST!

I had this entire massive post about replays and micro, and it’s GONE! NOOOOOOO!

Well, I suppose I have to start over now. Too bad it’s not going to be as in-depth as it was going to be. I’m so lazy. :frowning:

Go to http://v1234.myetang.com for a Korean replay site. Also, www.theinclan.com has a massive replay archive of SlayerS_‘BoXeR’, a Terran user and the best SC player IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. Pretty high honor!

Micro refers to using your units to the best of their ability, individually.

  1. Focus firing. Use ranged units (mostly, anyway) to concentrate on attacking one unit at a time. 11 full health Dragoons is less potent than 12 Dragoons, all with minor damage.
  2. Dancing. When a unit of yours is taking damage, RUN IT AWAY! In actuality, this is very helpful. You see, if the enemy units don’t retarget, they’ll helplessly run after the retreating unit while your units get free hits. If they do retarget, you have one more unit with attacking capabilities than you would have had.
  3. Spells. Many units, like Zerg Defilers, Terran Science Vessels and Protoss High Templar, have abilities that are often called “spells”. These take energy (sometimes called mana), which is represented by a white number underneath the unit’s HP. Learn what each spell does, and use them appropriately. For example, use Irradiate from Science Vessels on Zerg units; it works wonders.

There are more types of micro, but I am not qualified to elaborate. So just practice. Practice is how you get better at anything, and StarCraft is no exception.

Also, I’d like to play CRorex sometime, although I’ll probably lose. :wink:

Heh, sorry for the delayed triple post there… totally accidental.

Mereson, or whatever your name is: wow. Very well written advice. I’ve seen plenty of us older types who don’t put their thoughts down half as well.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is game speed. If it’s set high, before you actually learn the controls, the game will plow right over the top of you regardless of your strategy. In the long run, the game will tend to go to whoever can issue orders quicker, and the computer doesn’t have to type or scroll around to see what’s going on. If the speed’s set too high, you’re toast.

On behalf of my son and myself, I thank you, Ethilrist, for your kind words. I’ve always enjoyed my son’s writing, and I’m happy to report that he loves to read. He once said that his two favorite things in life were “playing video games and reading.” I consider myself lucky.

It’s worth upgrading your tanks just to hear the sound effect when they go into siege mode and start blowin’ stuff up.

I’ve got a sudden urge to go buy Warcraft III…

P.S. Is there a way to find idle SCVs? Also, what do you think is more important-- overwhelming numbers or much improved and upgraded units?

Overwhelming units is what Starcraft is all about. Warcraft 3, on the other hand, you don’t get so much of a guh factor.
Sheer numbers can give you piece of mind. Make upgrades a secondary issue (with a few exceptions, like increased range for the Marine. When you have the cash, and your base is doing well, that’s the time for upgrades.
By the way, if you’re an infantry player: research the stimpak skill, and get medics. Your marines and firebats will be healed and be very powerful. :slight_smile:

To answer, this is Mereson (thanks for the idea, Ethilrist!):

Unfortunately, there isn’t a way in StarCraft to find idle workers. Although WarCraft III has one (press F8), we have to make do with memory and sharp eyes. It helps to recognize which SCV is actually mining or just sitting there - you’ll also get this eventually.

About your second question, that’s a tough one. Basically, it again depends on the mystical thing known as Thine Holy Buildeth Order. Roughly, against the Protoss (against whom you should metal, or go factory units), I’d go with numbers. Against Zerg, your infantry (which you should be using, since Marines and Medics, plus a few Seige Tanks and Sci Vessels, destroy Zerg) should be upgraded very quickly. I mean +1 Attack, and Stim. I CANNOT STRESS STIM’S IMPORTANCE ENOUGH. Medics will quickly heal the small amount of damage that literally HALVES Marine cooldown (time in between attacks) and DOUBLES movement rate. Except you’re playing vanilla, right? hits head Well, get Brood War. It makes my life easier. :stuck_out_tongue: Against Terran, a good Terran will scout their opponent constantly to find out what to do. If you see more Starports than Factories (usually two 'Ports and one Factory), go the aforementioned “metal”, but make more Goliaths than usual, and don’t worry about upgrading too much. Against more Factories than Starports, don’t worry about Goliaths nearly as much, and instead focus on upgrades; these will be amazingly important in Seige Tank vs. Seige Tank battles, since +1 Vehicle Attack means a Tank destroys another in two hits instead of three, assuming the two-hit Tank is in Seige Mode.

Wow, I am so devoted to this topic…

Well, Mereson, you blow me away. :slight_smile:
In short: make units. Kill. Repeat step one.

(On another note: one of the most hella fun things is a full protoss carrier fleet with an arbiter and an observer. They go through bone like butter.) :slight_smile:

Mereson yet again:

Unless, of course, you have some Goliaths with Sci Vessel support. Then the poor Carriers get cut through like butter, cost-effectively. :wink:

That’s one of the reasons I love StarCraft. Everything is counterable.