In all fairness to Stoidela’s lack of response, it has only been 5 hours since the thread started.
BTW, Bush is now officially up by 300 votes in case anyone wanted to know (not that there won’t be 15 threads on this very piece of information started up…oh, about now).
I called Stoidela on her regionalist statement yesterday, on the other thread. She has effectively ignored it. And yet she is very active on this board, starting new thread after new thread yesterday and today. That’s why I started this thread. To make it more difficult for her to ignore this issue. She obviously is around these boards a lot. I seriously doubt she doesn’t know by now that PunditLisa and I took exception to her comments yesterday.
And she has already responded to this thread, with a pithy non-answer one-liner.
She has done this before, IMO. On the Great Debates she started a topic titled, “Why I don’t Trust Republicans/Conservatives”. She made some really stupid and ill-informed presumptions there. Finally, several of us called her on it. Backed into a corner, she hemmed and hawed and backpedaled. And then just abandoned the thread, offering no more further response or rebuttal. She later even went so far as to start a new thread (also in GD, called “Bias”) that continued the same topic of the “Why I don’t trust C/R” thread. She even mentions that other thread. Someone even asked her why she didn’t just continue to discuss the issue on the original thread. I can’t speak for her, but I suspect it’s a combination of her absolutely loving to start copius new threads on a daily basis, and her unwillingness to confront some of the issues that were posed to her on the previous thread.
Easier to start a new thread afresh, and avoid answering tough questions on the previous thread. And, it’s easier to just “ignore ignore ignore” when the going gets tough. IMO.
I mean really cute as pie. Gettin’ all steamed up at little ol’ me. <blush>
Lemme try to explain it all for you so you can avoid working yourselves into a lather over nothing. Or, if you insist on working yourselves into a lather, let’s make sure you do it over something real, not something imagined.
By the way, Ender, while I appreciate your attempts to be fair, I have not lacked a response. I responded! You guys just didn’t like my response. 
Secondly, I have not been more vocal everywhere for 2 reasons:
Oh, that last might come as a bit of a shock to many of you who were under the misapprehension that I am a boy. Well, I’m a gurl.
Now that we’ve cleared THAT up…
Before we veer completely off the track, let’s review what I ACTUALLY said, shall we? I really hate defending things that I never said…
Here are the meaningful words:
"And finally, in my completley unhumble opinion, I think it is extremely significant that Bush carried the rural areas and the South, and Gore carried urban areas and the North. But I’m not gonna be rude and make any of those sweeping generalizations I’m known for. As to why I think its meaningful, use your imaginations.
Hell, you don’t even have to. Just look up the stats on why people voted for whom they voted. The reasoning on both sides is enlightening. "
And what YOU all did was double-backflip somersaults straight to conclusions about what I MEANT, that included:
Denigrating the south
The south is stupid
Also, this remark is somehow “rude”.
Well, guess what, folks…just cuz YOU are inferring, does not mean I am implying, and I think you need to get a grip and look at YOUR assumptions instead of attacking me. Not that I mind…like I said, I think you’re cute.
Before I explain, I think it is pertinent to note that I am the daughter and grandaughter of real-life hillbillies. My daddy was born in a shack in the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee to a lovely but ignorant woman who is still alive, still lovely and still ignorant. (And before you all accuse me of using my grandmother as the standard for all Southerners, I bring this up to demonstrate that I am OF the south, and therefore do not automatically think ill of them.) I am also the granddaughter of Irish union organizers. My father is an ultra hardcore libertarian, my mother is bleeding heart liberal ex-president of the NAACP. So I have been listening to both sides all my life. It’s not like I haven’t had exposure. And you might find it interesting to know that I am much closer to my father and like him better as a human being. Whoda thunk it, eh?
Anyway, back to my statement. Read it again. Did anyone bother to DO what I suggested in the second paragraph?
No, of course not.
Here’s what I meant:
The South and rural areas of the North tend to be les sophisticated than urban areas. (less sophisticated does not mean stupid. If you think so, it’s your problem, not mine) I think denying that is dishonest. Their value systems reflect that. The way they make decisions, most particularly polictical decisions, reflect that.
If you look at the stats of why people voted for whomever they voted for, a few interesting facts emerge:
A significant majority of all Americans are happy with the direction the country has been going in and the policies that Clinton had. Roughly the same majority will actually admit to approving of Clinton himself as a president. Now, shouldn’t that tell you that his political partner and heir should have had no trouble getting elected? Well, if everybody voted according to how they viewed the governance and policies of the candidates, (not to mention the intelligence, ability and experience) then of course not. Gore should have been swept into office with no problem.
But wait! That didn’t happen! Why not? How could that be? If most people are happy with the way the GOVERNING is going, why wouldn’t they vote for the guy that’s pretty much guranateed to keep GOVERNING the same way?
And then you see what people say about why they voted for Bush, even though they don’t really think his ideas are so hot and they really are happy with the way things are going…why, it’s because they think he won’t lie about things. (and THAT is stupid, but that’s not my point. Anyone who thinks they are not gonna be lied to by presidents are really dreaming). They think he’s a nice guy. They think (they don’t know, of course, because he has so little experience of doing much of anything, who can say) he more “moral”, more “dignified”. Essentially, because CLINTON (not Gore!) as a PERSON offended them and they associate Al with Bill.
Well, excuse me if I think that’s a pretty lame ass reason to vote for someone to lead the most powerful nation on earth. Because you don’t PERSONALLY like the guy that’s already been doing it?
That holds up perfectly if you don’t like the POLITICS of the guy who has been doing it, if you don’t like the direction the country is going in, if you want different policies and politics. But to react to your personal distates for Man A by not voting for Man B???
And it makes sense that these sorts of decsions would be seen in the south and in rural areas because they put a premium on this kind of thing, because it DOES matter to them if their president is getting blow jobs in a back room and lying about it later. And they are proud of that, and good for them.
I happen to think it’s tragic, myself.
There must have been a door there in the wall when I came in…
Stoid, if you can stop sweeping for a moment …
I’ll ignore the irony of you making a spelling boo-boo in the statement “less sophisticated,” because I make them all the time, too.
But the statement is yet more generalized bullshit from you. On what basis do you make this assertion? Standardized test scores? Number of bachelor-degree recipients? Master’s-degree recipients?
How additionally ironic that you started a GD thread called “bias.” Add an ‘-ed’ to the end, and tattoo it on your forehead.
If anyone has displayed their lack of understanding for why anyone would vote for any candidate who is anything but a Democrat, it is you.
FTR, that doesn’t come close to even beginning to explain why I prefer Bush over Gore.
So what, exactly, DOES matter to a Democrat such as yourself?
Want to get stereotypical? I’d say you are the walking, breathing stereotype of an urban Democrat who thinks anyone who supports Christian values or votes Republican is a dumb, unenlightened cracker. Hold that mirror up, babe, when you’re talking about dumb and unenlightened.
So, you know what is the inner motivation of all these almost 50 million people that voted for Bush? And it comes down to this - that they are “unsophisticated”, and therefore voted for someone who otherwise would have been obviously unsuitable? And that this is “tragic”?
Or is it that people who value honesty are “unsophisticated”, and this is “tragic”? And, how do you know what “unsophisticated” really means, and if it applies to all of these people? People have cable TV and the Internet now, everywhere. Evens out the playing field a bit more. Besides, the US is full of hicks, everywhere. Big City Hicks. I lived in Sunland-“a truck on every lawn”-Tujunga (near Burbank, CA) for many years. It’s in L.A. County. There are very “sophisticated” areas in the South, (like parts Atlanta, GA. Georgia went for Bush, you know.) It’s isn’t so easy to generalize regions any more. And it’s exceedingly ignorant.
I don’t know where to begin. I know clearer minds will be able to tear your “logic” apart better than I will. But I’ll give it a shot.
But I think you just dug yourself a biiiig hole here. And I also think you probably take after your Grandmother. Or more likely, your Grandmother could teach you a thing or two.
So tell me…do you approve of Clinton’s performance as President? Do you approve and agree with his policies?
If you answer is YES (but only if it is yes), please explain why you voted for Bush.
Thank you.
Stoid
yeah, that’s what I said. :rolleyes:
Read carefully, dear. I said I was reading statistics that broke down how people voted based on the way THEY described it. I didn’t make it up. And I am not referring to all 50 million, but the very large percentage of them who LIKE the Clinton/Gore policies and leadership, and yet voted for Bush anyway.
That is evident.
For those of you who want a visual image of Stoidela’s comments…
Bush Vs. Gore County by County
Man I hate stoidela.
I was under a self-imposed non-posting moratorium until this election thing had some actual facts to debate, but a pit thread about stoidela just drew me out. I NEVER look in the pit. I NEVER post in here. Thank you for advertising this in GD.
Reading her last little “explanation” up there, it is transparent just how full of shit she is. She is willing to lie and twist her previous posts as if we were to stupid to go back and read her crap. Can’t she EVER just admit she was wrong?
This is an example of her unlimited selfless charitable thought process:
What the fuck does that mean? Is that supposed to be a non-condescending comment? Does she understand how bigoted she is?
I picture stoidela as this 20something bitch that never met a man she didn’t despise. I am guessing that she constantly wonders why everyone hates her, and has convinced herself that it couldn’t POSSIBLY be her fault, so everyone else must be less sophisticated and selfish.
I could care less about the political leanings of the people on the board, but stoidela has shown herself to be an ignorant racist bigoted elitist in the last week. She espouses tolerance and charity, but only expects it of others while she thinks she has a free pass to judge anyone she encounters without consequences.
And I think you are a cunt.
I thought I’d made that quite plain. The policies of the candidates. What they intend to do in the context of the job. If they appear particularly “diginified”, that’s a bonus. If they have exceptionally excellent personal morality that prevents them cheating on their wife, that’s very nice and very admirable, but it really has zero bearing on whether they would make a good president or not, and I think that has been amply proved by many presidents, not just Clinton.
[Moderator Hat: ON]
Freedom2: While the Pit is the place for flames, there are limits. Calling Stoidela a cunt is beyond those limits.
This is your first warning. Please tone it down.
And everyone else, please remember that venomous personal attacks are still a no-no, even here in the Pit.
Thank you.
[Moderator Hat: OFF]
I consider myself chastised, and will refrain. However, I still feel how I feel. I will just keep it to myself from now on. I apoligize for stepping across the line.
Stoid:
Let’s take a moment for reason.
This pretty much leaves you, and that crazy guy in the Port athority in NY who yells “Monsters Coming,” and holds out a can for donations. You’ve also got Wildest Bill, Jack Dean Tyler, and a couple of others too who are in the same boat.
Now, if you look around and decide you like the company, that’s fine, just fine.
If you don’t you need to make an asessment here.
Collisions with reality tend to be painful.
And you presume to think Bush supporters don’t support their candidate for the exact same reason (or Nader or Buchanan or Pat Paulsen supporters, for that matter)… why? Because of this vague poll you reference?
Some of those same campaign staffers who were handing out cigarettes to the homeless for Gore votes in Milwaukee need to come to your neighborhood and hand out clues.
Interestingly, Scylla, This has been my guiding light for all my life.
Any of us with any personality have found that not everybody likes us. This is true of me as well. However, it is not often true. I am a very well-loved person, I am fortunate enough to say. Even better, I am well-loved by people whom I love as well, and people whom I respect, which is even better. Most of my very closest friends have been my friends for decades. My friendships are the central joy of my life, for what else is life about, except the connection we make with other people?
In addition, I am engaged to be married to a man I have been with for almost 6 years who is without question the most intelligent, witty, kind, thoughtful, and deeply good person I’ve ever met. (In addition to being seriously cute and amazing in bed And he loves me.
On top of all this, I have always had a gift with new people, who 9 out of 10 times like me very much, which is why I used to always do “people” jobs. (Sales, mostly. Ugh. ) I have always had a problem with people wanting to be my friend and make room for them in my life, and I really can’t.
All this to say that I have taken this as a measure of whether I’m getting it right. And I must be.
So the (sometimes startlingly harsh!) opinions of posters on the SDMB doesn’t really make me question myself. Too many people that I know are terrific people think I’m pretty bitchen myself.
And ya know what else? Some of you guys take this waaaay too seriously.
stoid
PS: I refuse to defend or argue positions that other people have assigned me. Y’all get riled up about something I say and what you think it means. You demand and taunt and bitch at me to expalin myself. So I explain myself. And then I’m told that that isnt’ what I meant at all, THIS is what I meant. So it is quite apparant that no one wants me to explain myself, you want me to say “ohmygod you’re right, I’m such scum, please forgive me!” and when you don’t get that it pisses you off. Well, tough. When you decide to debate what I say and I say I mean, I’ll take you on. But as long as you are going to tell me what I mean, it’s kinda pointless, isn’t it? Just write the posts yourselves, put my name at the end, and then scream about it. Enjoy.
Stoid:
I’ve said it before, I actually like you.
However, a message board is different from real life. If you apply the cues you’ve received from a number of people who you’ve pissed off, you have no choice but to either decide we’re all a bunch of jackasses, or else you’ve done a poor job translating the well-loved you into this environment.
How you interpret that fact and what you do about it is up to you.
To all my loyal subjects,
Republicans have no right to live. They should be shot and buried for the sake of the people. We should rely on the sophisticated democrats who are more enlightened than the simple country folk to make the decisions on who deserves to live. If you happen to disagree with me, you are either selfish, simple or ignorant. If I post something that gets ripped apart because it makes ME sound ignorant, I reserve the right to pretend that I have ignored all critizing posts and post a spontaneuos clarification. My clarification has no obligation to be consistent with my original posts, even if I have been defending them for an entire thread.
When confronted with people who are frustrated by my inablity to acknowlegde my own posts, I will become Queen Stoidela, and refer to them in condescending terms. I will then proceed to fabricate a fantasy land existence to dispel any negative impressions anyone may have about me.
Your Queen,
Stoidela
But…that is basically what you said! If you didn’t, could you go back to your original post, and explain, point-by-point, what you really meant? Without backsliding, hedging, or merely saying “that’s not what I meant?” Could you do this coherently? (I know that’s a stretch…)
When you flat-out say something, we “assign” it to you.
It’s because you don’t actually “explain” yourself, you backslide and hedge. You twist things around, ignore entire points, pretend you didn’t state something that you quite clearly did. You are incredibly inarticulate, in a way. Oh, you are verbose, and you string sentences together very well. But you seem unable to express a thought without being “misunderstood”. Think about it. Why do so many of us take offense at what you write? Why are not more of the other liberals on this board taking your side and defending some of your ideas? How many liberal people on this thread are rushing to your defense?
We want you to admit when you’ve written something incredibly lame. The rest of us admit when we’ve been stupid, what makes you any different? We want you to own up to some of the incredibly ignorant things you’ve clearly written, instead of just ignoring and claiming we “don’t understand”.
Freedom, I don’t usually rate these things, but I’ll give you a “nice.” And unfortunately true.
Stoidela, even on those rare occasions (FGM debate) where I slightly agree with you, I find your ravings tiresome and histrionic. This election has not brought out the best in anyone here, but it has definitely not brought out the best in you - multiple threads, refusing to back up statements, making sweeping generalizations about millions of your fellow citizens.
Yosemitebabe attacked words that YOU said - actually, she didn’t attack them, she asked you for a clarification, which you refused to provide except by way of lame Civil War references and personal histrionics. I kept waiting for you to tell us anecdotes about little old ladies who can’t get medicare coverage for their dogs veterinary prescriptions - it would have topped things off nicely.
I am not an evil Republican or even a Bush supporter, but I am glad that most of the country is not as sophisticated as you.
Well see, there ya go. Since all you see of me is here, Scylla, and you seem to be top of the list of people I’ve ticked off, why do you like me? I must be pretty fuckin’ likable, eh? 
Here’s how it is:
I enjoy debating. I always have. When I discovered public bulletin boards designed for that purpose a dozen or so years ago, I was in hog heaven…what could be cooler than a place filled with people who WANT to debate, who LIKE to debate, and whose WORDS ARE RECORDED!! (they cannot later claim they said X, when Y is written right there and can be copied and pasted! Which is what amazes me about you guys…deal with what I really say or don’t deal with me at all. And that includes rephrasing what I’ve said and askingme to explain or defend it. Refer to my actual words, or don’t bother me.) BITCHEN!! Plus, no yelling over each other! And to make it all too damn sweet, a whole bunch of these same people are people I would NEVER hang out with in real life, and who because of that very fact are the perfect opponents! Sweet! (I mean, my friends and I tend to be of similar mind about most things, that’s part of why we’re friends, so it’s hard to get a good juicy debate going)
I’ve been at this a long time. I actually don’t enjoy it as much as I used to, mostly because I’ve covered the same topics a hundred times and I can practically write everyone’s arguments in my sleep. (This has also exposed me to ALOT of people debating the conservative point of view. Ahem.) This wacky election has provided some great fresh material to work with.
I’ve learned alot in those years. One of the things I’ve learned is that there is absolutely no point in trying to avoid offending people. It can’t be done. Oh, well, sure it can, but not while espousing any real opinions. SOMEBODY is gonna get offended. Maybe lots of somebodys. And here’s an offensive opinion: who cares? So fuckin’ what if I think Republicans are illogical, self-serving buttheads? Who the fuck am I? Why should you give a shit? Are we dating? Is your self-worth invested in MY opinion of you? (God, I hope not!) Is your self-worth invested in what ANYONE on a public, anonymous discussion board thinks of you? (God, I hope not!) If it is, you have my sympathies, and if it isn’t, let’s stop making this PERSONAL and get back to debating! I’m not trying to win your love! If I do, cool. If I don’t, whatever!
That’s why I won’t acknowledge people who make it personal. They are taking it too personally, and I can’t go there with them. (it’s also just ugly and unpleasant, not to mention the lowest way to debate) This is strictly entertainment, and if it seriously affecting the way you feel about yourself, about others, or about anything at all, you need to stop it and go find some other kind of entertainment. I don’t hate you, Scylla. (I don’t hate anyone on earth, really. Life is way too short to expend that kind of nasty energy. Even Bush I don’t hate…I’m just disgusted and scared of him.) I don’t even dislike you. I have enjoyed some of your posts, and others have annoyed me. And still others I haven’t cared about one way or another. But I don’t have any real emotion invested in a single thing you say because you don’t count in my life. And I shouldn’t count in yours.
In fact, even in real life, the only time anyone counts as far as their opinions of me are concerned is if I have an opinion about them. Do I respect them? Do I admire them? Do I like them? Then their opinion of me counts.
And there ya go. The Stoidal Philosophy of Public Debate Forums. Deal with it.
Or don’t.
I don’t really care.
But I do offer the friendly advice that caring too much is bad for your health, and you should look closely at why you are here…and maybe re-think it.
See ya on the boards!
Stoid
