Stoidela, you think the North is better than the South??

This is not a post about politics, but rather one about writing.

It is a cold hard truth that it is the writer’s job to make themselves understood, not the reader’s job to puzzle them out. Stoid, if people are consistiently misunderstanding your view point, you need to change your approach. Good writers use radically different writting styles different places and even on different THREADS depending on their percieved audience. They say things, have them misunderstood, restate them from a different angle.

A second truth, this one about debating, is that it only works if you assume that your opponent is an intelligent, rational person with reasons for reacting/responding as they do. If they misunderstand something posted, it is probably due to lack of clarity on the original poster’s part, rather than willful ignorance. It falls on the head of the original poster to go back and rephrase, rework, restate until understanding is achieved. This is where debate happens–if everyone understood everyone else’s argument from the get go we could skip the debate and commence with the name calling.

When restating one’s posistion, it is better to say “I see I have not made myself clear” than to say “I can’t believe you guys can’t understand this.”

Often, the process of reshaping an arguement to make it coherent to other people will lead to the transformation of that arguement. There is nothing wrong with that–intuitions are given reasons and thoughts are made more orderly. Hell, the reason I read and post here is so that I can clarify my own arguements before I take them out into the real world. There is nothing wrong with saying "I am changing gears here. I’ll concede that my arguement Y dosen’t seem to come together the way I would like it to, but the issue I want to concentrate on is X . … " where X is a stronger formatation of Y, where one has fixed all the little logical fallicies and misapprehensions your fellow debators have so kindly pointed out.

In the end, you have to care a little. You have to want your point of view to be understood correctly, and you have to want that badly enough to be willing to spend the time to really think about what the opposistion is saying and to come up with a way to make yourself understood, even if you have to post the same thing, worked over in different ways, a dozen times. You’ll notice I have a rather low post count even though I have read the boards daily for well over a year: I rarely care that much, myself, so I lurk. I find that the best attitude to take while posting is that of a teacher–one is trying to teach people something, and it is a piss poor teacher who says something one way and claims it to be self-evident. A teacher teaches until the job is done.

To summarize:

“I will say the stupidest, most bigoted tripe you’ve ever heard, with no basis in fact, but only in my hopelessly misguided, Pollyanna’s view of the world, and that’s my opinion so there. Nyahh.”

The fact that these two ignorant, condescending, elitist and bigoted people will likely breed sends a chill down my spine.

It does a pretty good job just speaking for itself.

I agree.

At first I simply disagreed with your politics and your stated views, and the lack of a factual backbone behind them. But, as you’ve revealed more and more of yourself in these posts, you’ve shown that you have the ugliest, most self-centered and misguided views of the world of anyone I’ve met or heard from recently.
Ceejaytee:

Not as bigoted and ignorant as Stoidela’s smarm, but an incorrect generalization nonetheless.

I can’t presume to speak for all Republicans, but while the idea of private contributions and charities helping the poor are a component, the most important idea is one of empowering everybody to better themselves. You can debate whether that’s misguided or effective, but that’s the idea most of us, I think, are working from. Similar to the old adage: “Give a person a fish and they eat for a day; teach a person to fish and they eat for a lifetime.”

Individuals and families learning how to and having the means to help themselves can’t help but be more directly effective than a massive federal bureacracy.

You misspelled “Stoidela”.

Milo: Not an incorrect generalization if “the idea of private contributions and charities helping the poor are a component,” merely incomplete. I stand corrected.

However, I, as a liberal, also feel that people should be taught to help themselves. I also think that the government needs to ensure that those people who are are unable to help themselves are protected and cared for. If this involves a “massive federal bureaucracy,” so be it. At any rate, this isn’t the thread for this interesting discussion, ridiculous generalizations are. I hope I’m not making any :slight_smile:

I agree, as I think virtually everyone on all sides of the political spectrum does.

While I agree, and I think most Republicans agree, that some level of federal bureaucracy is necessary, it’s the size of that bureaucracy and things that it does that color the debate between Republicans and Democrats. It’s really shades of gray in the details.

For the sake of completeness I read this entire thread. I then went back and read it again just in case I missed the horrific blasphemous slander which justified Stoidela being called

“a cunt”
“this 20something bitch that never met a man she didn’t despise”
"ignorant racist bigoted elitist "
“an uncaring liar.”
“Most Full-of-Shit-and-Full-of-Herself Poster”

and my own personal favourite
“The only difference between stoidela and a Klan member is that they look down on different groups.”

It after some examination it seemed to me that the one single comment which prompted this furore was this one by Stoidela.

Now granted, this was an ignorant thing to say. It showed a total lack of understanding. However this comment does not warrent being called a cunt or being compared to a Klan member.

What if I were to say that they (Texans) have the same, religion-heavy, grits-eating, drawling, mama-loving, macho, let’s-go-huntin’ culture as the rest of the South.

What if I said that Texans do tend to be blowhards, though. I put it down to some sort of state-wide inferiority complex.

What if I said that Abilene was like living in a city where about half the population were living, breathing Chick tracts.

Or what if I were to mention that my view of Texas is of a place with flat as a pancake and in dire need of syrup. Cows and cotton are the major crops, because no other animal is stupid enough to want to live there, including the boll weevil.

Does that piss you off? Do you feel you should slap me back into line (yes Freedom 2 I’m talking to you)? Well then go right along to this thread

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46359&pagenumber=2

and do it.

you will find all of the above comments in that thread so scoot on over there and give the four or five separate posters who said all of the above things a piece of your mind.

Or you could just carry on picking on Stoidela. I’m not defending what she said. I’m just pissed off at the insanely OTT reaction to it.
Just to recap, Stoid said

and received

Whereas other people said things like

and the reaction is…nothing.

Now I * know * that those last comments weren’t said in all seriousness but you know and I know that if they had referred to homosexuals as oh…I dunno, “blowhards” then there would have been uproar the likes of which has never been seen before, and rightly so.

just reread Stoids comment, then read all the others, then consider the respective reactions to both, then say after me

O-V-E-R-R-E-A…

VoiceofReason, whoever you are, you are obviously too cowardly to post this under your “real” username. There is no way you are some newbie who stumbled upon this thread and felt the need to comment.

So, who are you?

Stoid’s detractors (and her half-hearted defenders) have the guts to use their real usernames. Why can’t you?

I am half-tempted to think you are Stoid in disguise, but that’s probably not it. At least I hope not, because that would be really pathetic. But whoever you are, I can’t figure out why you felt the need to write this under a different name.

Regarding your comments - if it had just been the one comment about the North and the South, this thread would have never been created. But Stoid has been sticking her foot in it with great regularity of late, and as I stated before, I guess my patience had worn thin. Obviously, I wasn’t the only one.

I’m not new, although this is my real (for want of a better term with in the confines of a message board) name. I say I’m not new because I’ve been lurking for a fair while now, on and off.
You say

I disagree. I felt you were being excessively cruel so I decided to try and put things in perspecitve.

I can assure you that I am not Stoidela. I am not a Sock Puppet. I am just a new poster who wanted to add his 2 cents. That is all.
I’m going to be posting regularly from now on so hopefully time and my ever increasing post count will convince you that I am not just some troll looking for a fight.

Since I am responsible for 4 out of the big 6, and the only poster named in your post, here is my repy to you:
I consider you a coward. I also believe that you are a sock puppet. If stoidela wants to come in and ask for an explanation, let her do it. If someone who has a history to judge them by wants to get involved, so be it. Registering as “Voice of Reason” and then diving in here to defend Stoidela for your first post is laughably obvious.
If you are a newly first-time registered poster, than I would suggest that you pick another place to make your mark. Not that you don’t have a “right” to comment in here, but that the circumstances of your registration cast serious doubt on your story. Fire away all you want. I could care less. My beef is with stoidela. Your points and posts seem pretty useless to me. There is a long history on this board of sock puppets, and you seem to fit right in. Whether you are stoidela, another poster on the board, or her rumoured fiance; jumping into an arguement like this with no track record of your own makes your motivation seem questionable, and possibly relfects badly on stoidela.

I agree, Freedom. I also think that the username “VoiceofReason” (oh puleeze) is too much. Had a more generic username like “Kat436” been used, it would been at least a little less suspicious. But, “VoiceofReason”? Give me a break. I believe that such a name was specifically tailored for this thread.

As far as this thread being “cruel”, well, if it is, it certainly did not start that way. My OP is pretty tame. But Stoid, in her usual manner, heaped more upon herself, and helped fuel the fire with some of her statements and her sometimes condescending attitude. And yes, other dopers here had obviously felt more impatience with her than I had, and expressed that. But this thread escalated, in part, because of Stoid’s own posts.

Actually, I’m her rumored fiance. I don’t know who the voice of reason is.

I’m not a sock puppet. The definition of sock puppet, as I understand it, is a poster who is either

a) A close friend of the poster under attack, brought forward to defend him/her.

b) The poster himself under another name trying to make himself look like he has more popular support than he actually does.

I am neither, nor am I any other definition which I may have overlooked. I’ve been reading threads in most of the forums (but especially this one and GD) for quite a while now and I just got pissed off at what I considered to be a public lynching for comments which did not deserve it. I thought I would voice my complaint now, while I still felt it was pertinent.
I am not supporting what Stoid said. I’ll come right out and say it, I thought it was a dumb thing to say. What I did object to was her treatment by several posters, especially you.

BTW - I chose The voice of reason as my name because I thought it would look cool in Great Debates, nothing more.

By the way, when I said “especially you” I was referring to Freedom, not Yosemitebabe.

Anyone care to address the substance of VoiceofReason’s initial post, rather than the circumstances of his/her posting?

Jeez, the indignation level in this thread is so high–on both sides–that it’s like walking into a room full of static electricity. Anyone gonna accuse me of being a sock puppet?

You friggin sock puppet.

From what I can see, the Texas thread was written with a lot less seriousness, and there is sometimes an element of absurdity to it. It is not so politically charged. Also, the person who started the thread does not have a rich history of writing many annoying and condescending threads. Basically, the tone of the Texaas thread, when taken in context, is quite different. And I’m sure they can sort it all out over there, about the merits, or lack thereof, of the Great State of Texas!

My OP, while on the face of it being about “regionalism”, was really a result of the straw breaking the camel’s back. I started the thread because I had grown weary of Stoid’s insulting generalizations of anyone who was not on the “protected” list in her head, and also her basic condescending attitude. But no, I was not raving mad about it, just a bit fed up. And when I read her comments about the South and rural areas, I thought, “that’s it, I’ve had it” and decided to create this thread.

Had we kept to the topic of the OP only, and had Stoid not come in and stuck her foot in it so beautifully, I doubt it would have escalated to what it is now. I am not saying that I am delighted that it is what it is now. I don’t generally relish angry Pit threads. And, I don’t wish Stoid to feel she is some sort of leper and unwelcome. Absolutely not. She is a long-standing member, and I am sure will continue to contribute much to this message board.

But you know, when someone sticks their neck out and starts new threads, makes declarative statements and does some of the things Stoid has done, something is bound to come of it. People are bound to respond. Some more dramatically and vehemently than others.

At this point I feel VOR is a troll. I have a pretty hard and fast rule not to waste time and energy feeding the trolls. If you would like to take ownership of everything VOR has said, I will be happy to debate it with you.

Please re-read the entire first post by him(her?) though. If we are going to argue it, I don’t want you bailing out on certain points by claiming you didn’t say them. If there are only specific things you want addressed in his post, just pull them out and post them as your own.

I will not feed what I consider a troll.

Oh. I now see that the Texas thread was started by Wildest Bill. (I thought it was started by spoke.) Well…

Freedom, I agree with VoiceofReason that your reaction to Stoidela was too harsh for the circumstances. However, VoR, he did apologize.

Stoidela, you would be doing yourself a favor if you backed off the jets a little bit. Like I’ve said to you before, it’s great to be passionate about your politics. But when you go overboard and manage to alienate people, not only have ensured they will NOT be getting the message you were trying to convey, but you may have also missed the opportunity to learn something. In order to learn you need to listen. And it’s hard to listen when you are talking the whole time.

Before you begin threads with topics like, “Why I don’t trust Republicans,” ask yourself, “What is my goal here?” If it is to hear yourself speak at the risk of offending others, then congratulations. You are the Rush Limbaugh of the liberals. If it’s to exchange ideas, then you need to change your tone.

Yeah, I was wondering about that too…