Stop being the expert [famous people and political views]

[drewder]

I think a great book on this subject, of people who are successful or experts in one area thinking that expertise translates to every area, in the book Intellectuals and society.

[Kamino_Neko]

@msmith537

Agreed! A Hamilton show is no place for fighting with the Vice President of the United States!

[Patx2]

@Patx2

Let me use an example and maybe you will get the point I was trying to make. I do not know the first thing about cars. So, you probably would not want me telling you how to repair yours. I was trying to make a general statement that celebs that are spouting off about their political positions are often not speaking from a vantage point of being very knowledgeable about the topics they support or are opposed to. It was a generalization, so as with any generalization there are exceptions to the rule and I’m sure some celebs are well read and understand the issues they speak about. General statement, no complaining here, but I seem to have touched a nerve with you. Is George a friend of yours?

Thanks for moving it, I realized it after the fact. Yes, that’s the post that seems to have gotten me in a mess with some fellow posters.

[Patx2]

My last post about moving my post is in wrong forum sorry I think I missed the edit.

[Spice_Weasel]

If I may clarify, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to be annoyed by celebrities running off at the mouth. While I don’t personally care that much, it’s perfectly human to be annoyed by such a thing. What I think is ridiculous is to express outrage and demand your money back after an incident like the Pence-Hamilton thing, especially in light of how unapologetically leftwing political that musical is, and my comments were directed toward the poster who said that, not the OP.

It’s not a fair representation of the OP’s argument to say s/he believed celebrity speech should be somehow regulated or limited. Only that s/he wished they would STFU.

[Patx2]

@Spice_Weasel

If I may clarify, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to be annoyed by celebrities running off at the mouth. While I don’t personally care that much, it’s perfectly human to be annoyed by such a thing. What I think is ridiculous is to express outrage and demand your money back after an incident like the Pence-Hamilton thing, especially in light of how unapologetically leftwing political that musical is, and my comments were directed toward the poster who said that, not the OP.

It’s not a fair representation of the OP’s argument to say s/he believed celebrity speech should be somehow regulated or limited. Only that s/he wished they would STFU.

d

Exactly! I don’t think anyone’s right to free speech should be questioned. I feel as though someone just got my whole point.

[CatandMouse]

@Patx2

This has bothered me for sometime and I guess the Hamilton/Mike Pence thing has me thinking about it. I am so tired of actors, musicians, fiction writers, etc mouthing off about their political views and how that’s supposed to influence the public. Just stop, please. I know why you do it because so many people follow you. The thing is, people follow you for your action movies or whatever your genre may be. On the other hand, I don’t need my politicians rapping on tv or singing pop songs, etc. Stick to what you know. Any other dopers tired of this?

I thought it was an awesome message delivered to Mike Pence. Three cheers for Hamilton!

[doorhinge]

@Dewey_Finn

The point, doorhinge, is that you said, ''I don’t buy tickets for plays, or attend plays, to hear actors/make-believe specialists spout their own words during, or after, the play. They should just recite the words the writers wrote and let me leave the theater deeply enmeshed in the play I paid to see."

Ravenman’s point was that the actor was reciting the words the writers wrote. The statement was written by Lin-Manuel Miranda (creator and writer of the show), Thomas Kail (the director) and Jeffrey Seller (lead producer).

Hahahaha. Are you, or he, seriously try to claim this speech was just a script rewrite? That it was just part of the show. Don’t hold the actors responsible. They were only acting the way the producer, director, and writer told them to act.

Maybe the actors were simply too afraid to do anything other than what they did because they thought they might be replaced for disobeying the producer/director/writer? Those tables aren’t going to wait on themselves, ya know.

[Dale_Sams]

If Pence had taken one of the Secret Service sidearms and challenged the actor to a duel…would he garner at least a little more respect??

[cochrane]

@doorhinge

Maybe the actors were simply too afraid to do anything other than what they did because they thought they might be replaced for disobeying the producer/director/writer? Those tables aren’t going to wait on themselves, ya know.

Seriously? :dubious: :rolleyes:

[BigT]

Actors who voice their political views are not pretending to be experts. You do not need to be an expert to have a political view. There will always be political views in art, and people will always want to use art to promote their political views.

I don’t want them to shut up. That would limit political discourse. I don’t care that it’s just a request, and not hurting their rights. I just cannot support a blanket STFU message to them.

Too much good art comes from politics. And society is better because a lot of famous people get into politics.

[Princhester]

@BigT

Actors who voice their political views are not pretending to be experts.

A very good point that I’m not sure anyone had thought to make to this point.

[Bridget_Burke]

@doorhinge

(post shortened)

IMHO, actors make their living by pretending to be someone else. The sincerity they bring to their roles is paramount in convincing their audience to buy whatever words the actors may be reciting. Once they’ve learned to fake sincerity, they have it made in the land of make-believe.

While the cast of this specific make-believe effort (Hamilton) are entitled to their own opinions, they chose a poor place from which to make their speech. I don’t buy tickets for plays, or attend plays, to hear actors/make-believe specialists spout their own words during, or after, the play. They should just recite the words the writers wrote and let me leave the theater deeply enmeshed in the play I paid to see.

The actors could have invited the VP backstage to voice their personal concerns, instead of foisting them onto the audience. Fuck the actors of the cast of Hamilton for ruining the paid for and expected experience of the audience. I would demand a refund.

Since you appear to have avoidedreading about this incident:

The statement that Mr. Dixon read was written by the show’s creator, Lin-Manuel Miranda; its director, Thomas Kail; and the lead producer, Jeffrey Seller, with input from cast members, Mr. Seller said.

The production was notified of Mr Pence’s attendance. For security purposes, he & his entourage were seated after the rest of the audience. The statement was read after the curtain call, while most of the audience had to remain seated & the Pence party was ushered out.

[Barkis_is_Willin]

I haven’t seen a mention of Kanye West in this thread, but seems a lot of folks agree with the OP when it comes to him. Kanye launched into a rather lengthy speech during a show, which included praise for Donald Trump. There’s a thread about it in the pit. A lot of fans were pissed and wanted, and I believe actually received, refunds. Guess they wanted him to shut up and sing. And frankly, I’d have been pissed too. That’s not what they paid to hear.

[Dewey_Finn]

I don’t think anyone has mentioned Kanye West because that situation is completely different. In that case, he only performed a few songs before ending his show early. In the case of the Hamilton performance that was attended by Mike Pence, the audience was able to see the entire show.

[Barkis_is_Willin]

This thread is not about Hamilton. It’s about celebrities preaching politics.

[raventhief]

Ricky Gervais posted something about the irony of people who voted the host the Apprentice into the White House complaining that entertainers should say out of politics.

While I am sure Trump supporters are not the only ones complaining about this, the only ones I have seen on FB have been Trump supporters. And one of those Trumpsters even made the case that entertainers are not real people, don’t exist at all and should only dance to the organ grinder as monkeys should do.

[ISiddiqui]

@Spice_Weasel

What I think is ridiculous is to express outrage and demand your money back after an incident like the Pence-Hamilton thing, especially in light of how unapologetically leftwing political that musical is

Indeed. Speaking of Ricky Gervais (whom raventhief mentioned), it’d be like going to his stand up and getting offended and wanting your money back if he started railing on religion (say, if a priest was in the audience and he directed his comments at said priest). Why are you offended?

[Jophiel]

@Barkis_is_Willin

This thread is not about Hamilton. It’s about celebrities preaching politics.

And the context of them “preaching politics” matters. A statement at the end of a performance? Fine. A statement in the middle of a performance? I’m cool with that. Remarks on Twitter or late night TV interviews? Sure, who cares? A show ending monologue after two songs? That’s a problem. I wouldn’t care if the monologue was about his pet goldfish, the issue is the two-song “concert”.

[Mtgman]

@Barkis_is_Willin

This thread is not about Hamilton. It’s about celebrities preaching politics.

This thread is really about America’s obsession with celebrities. They’re just a bunch of people, like everyone else, but if they say something, for some reason, Americans sit up and listen. The OP is at odds with himself because he is granting the cast of Hamilton expert-level status they don’t deserve, mostly because, like most Americans, the Halo effect around celebrities makes him think they deserve to be listened to more than others, which is, frankly, untrue. They’re just people, and(to me at least) their humble plea for their fears and concerns to be heard is more touching when you strip away the overly-valued status of celebrity from their voices. Imagine it was a group of handymen, or gardeners, or migrant farm workers, or tailors, instead of the most celebrated cast of actors in a generation. Because that’s really what you should be hearing.

Enjoy,
Steven