Straight Men, Intimacy and Porn

Look, we get that you’re different from everyone else. We get that you feel that your taste is superior to most others. You’re probably between 18 and 21, listen to indie rock and watch semi-artsy movies, and are liberal arts major. All the cultural references you’ve made, from Pink Floyd to Elefant (which was OK, but IMO overrated) to your distaste for reality TV and Hooters, indicate a sort of culturally elitist attitude which is common to the subculture that you’re probably part of. (And I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to have this attitude as a young man, although you should lose some of the negativity as you get older.) I bet your parents are teachers. You’re probably one of those guys who, when you’re on a losing streak with the opposite sex, thinks “why do girls only like assholes?” but you probably know at the back of your mind that they don’t really like assholes and you just wished they liked you more.

My advice: just relax, try to find the porn that you like best (ask on some porn forums, for Christ’s sake, instead of on here - you will get answers, just don’t be too elitist.) While you’re waiting for the responses to pile up, go out and have some real experience with girls (you’ve indicated that you have, so don’t take this as a “you need to get LAID,” back-slapping, towel-snapping macho semi-putdown.) Maybe eventually you can start your own erotica production company and make this superior breed of porn that you envision.

and others keep explaining why this is not necessarily the case.

I beg to differ, as a condesending asshole.

There never was a conversation to begin with. It was just you blabbing on and on about your two requirements for New And Improved Porn [sup]TM[/sup]

Why wait until then?

Can we seriously stop with the baseless insults? I already said I was 28. I got over the “superior”, or “music snob” phase when I was in college. I graduated with Computer Science. My parents are both high school drop outs, and are both very immoral, very horrible human beings that I don’t speak to anymore. I stopped thinking “girls only like assholes” about 10 years ago.

I don’t think of myself as an elitist. I don’t think people who only enjoy mainstream music, mainstream movies/TV, or fast food are “stupid”. I like mainstream things too sometimes, but If it’s a field I’m passionate about, then I continuously try to go deeper, and discover new things. Does that make me “better” than other people? Of course not. I don’t judge people based on what they enjoy, I judge people on how they treat other human beings.

Also I think you guys are reading into a lot of my “hate”. I only hate people who (I believe) are homophobes (Eminem, Stern, Corolla). I think people who oppress large groups of people are doing huge amounts of damage to our society. They influence others and pass on these beliefs to their children.

The rest of my anger is purely frustration. I wish more people shared my views on this particular subject, but I realize that isn’t the case now. Honestly it’s not the end of the world. I’m not going to go throw some tantrum. And I sure as hell am not going to try to force my views on anyone. For the most part I just can’t wait for this stupid thread to be over with so I can stop thinking about it. I don’t enjoy this at all.

Alright, sorry I got you wrong. Really. Also, I didn’t mean to insult you. In any case, I understand your frustration. I have the same frustration about new cars - I think they all look like shit. And it’s frustrating as hell talking to people who like the hideous new Dodge Charger and disgusting new Mustang and other wretched vehicles, when I wish to the high heavens that the design world could have remained stuck in 1969 forever. “Can’t you SEE?” I ask these people, “the lines of this car are all wrong, the symmetry is all wrong, the door handles are too big, the seats are cheap looking, the design of this goddamn car is absolutely hideous!!!” But to no avail - they like the cars that they like, and nothing I could ever do will change their mind!

It’s frustrating. I’ve just got to deal with it - some things just are not worth arguing about. Someday, hopefully, I’ll have a 1969 Mustang, and someday, hopefully, you will have the porn that you want. Until then, all we can do is enjoy what we enjoy, and find ways to obtain it. So, to that end, I’d suggest asking for recommendations on an adult forum (there are lots of them out there.) Like I said, you’ll get responses.

I’ll accept the factual claims like your age and that there’s a schism between you and your parents, but I don’t buy any of the rest of it, including the disavowal of elitism. You made a very bad first impression with that “sheep” remark way back in the first post and since reinforced repeatedly that more people would agree with you if only they were enlightened and until then, you’ll nobly suffer their ignorance.

At this point, every time you write another attempt to explain yourself, you just give us more ammunition, all while ignoring perfectly valid points or questions. That’s not necessarily a bad thing on this board; a number of posters have gotten huge mileage out of their unyielding sneers, getting dozens of pit threads dedicated to them as other posters make it a mission to nail jello or herd cats or some other metaphorical impossibility (heck, Diogenes the Cynic can inspire endless howls of outrage with nothing more than a casual “Bush voters are traitors”). If you won’t adopt a more mature, relaxed attitude, you’re going to need a much thicker skin.

I don’t want to leave this thread with a bad taste in my mouth. I think that if we were to meet in real life, we’d probably both see we’re not all that different. I know I have many faults, I do have quite a few screws loose in my brain, but I don’t think of myself as a bad person.

A lot of my generalizations were made, simply because it’s how I see them. I wish I didn’t have to make them, and i wish I had scientific data to back them up. The “sheep” comment was made in the same way you would say followers of KKK were sheep. No, I don’t think it’s quite the same, but it’s still frustrating to hear the way some radio personalties speak down on others. I’m sure many of the listeners are very intelligent, open minded people. They probably consider what I think as insulting, as off-color humor. That’s fine.

As far as my friends who listen to music I don’t like. I don’t look down on them. However, I do often think that if they gave this album a shot they would probably like it. So I’ll often buy CDs that are a mix of their taste and my taste. Sometimes I never hear about it again, but sometimes I get a phone call explaining how much they love it. It’s the connection we make when we both see eye to eye that I enjoy sometimes.

That’s all I’m getting at. I knew coming in here I was going to get a bunch of raised eyebrows and confused comments. I think for the most part I was just hoping for at least one, “You know what Senior Smith. It honestly feels like you’re reading my mind. I agree with every single point you’ve made. I’ve always wanted to see something exactly like this and have felt weird thinking it.”

I came in here looking for a connection.

How do we get out of this hole? I know! Let’s DIG our way out!

Seriously, from the guy who defended you when the insults started flying: you do sound like a condescending asshole. You do sound elitist.

You did notice the posters (me included) who said they’d like to see this film, right?

This exists and is called POV porn. Again, it becomes clear you know almost nothing about porn.

You do come off as elitist. Since your first post, there has been the message ‘I’m brilliant enough to want intimacy porn. You’d want it too if you could just stop being sheep for a moment.’

Have some flowers.

Please, have a seat. I made this dinner for you. Rosemary roasted chicken, lemon-garlic potatoes, wilted chard with butter and sea salt. Dessert’s in the fridge. It’s a surprise.

So tell me about yourself. Interesting. Mmm. Has anyone ever said, you have a really nice speaking voice. Calm. Deep. Confident. Yes, mmm. You have nice eyes, too. Normally I don’t go for guys with glasses but yours really work.

Sure, I can put on some music. Oh, you brought a CD? Pink Floyd? I was really into them. Which one is it? Dark Side? I have Echoes, can we listen to that instead? More, y’know, ambient.

Yeah, I started in high school. Friend was big into The Wall but I like the earlier stuff a lot more. How about you?

Mmm. Mm hmmm. Right, laser shows. Lots of fun.

I really feel like we’re getting to know each other.

So bend over and let’s fuck.

Was it good for you?

OK, let’s get the order right. First, we don’t call poster assholes, second, then we get pissy when people mis-guess our age by a few years. The correct order is to get pissy when people mis-guess our age by a few years and then insult other posters. I’m sure this order is really hard to figure out, but with practice, I’m sure you’ll get the hang of it.

and with a few more years, we can well expect you to got over the porn snob phase. On second thought, it may take until you get your second girl friend. You offered to come back in in a year. Please check back by then, even if you aren’t able to accomplish this.

We’re so, so impressed with this.

That’s just too good to touch. Is there any hope that the rest of us can get so lucky?

and in an other 10 years you’ll figure out that some girls like it up their assholes and most don’t, but deciding which is which will mean the difference between having to depend on porn for satisfaction and going to bed with someone.

[quote]
I don’t think of myself as an elitist. quote] then rewrite your comments.

Just walk away and it will be all over.

I still keep feeling like the OP is essentially trying to sell us a product that only he thinks is new, but its not really new at all and in fact, was not all the revolutionary when it was new. What some people are calling elitism, I’m calling insularity.

He’s not even talking about building a new mousetrap. It’s more like he keeps describing, in all this interesting detail, the components of a new food he concocted and wants to proselytize about, clearly not seeming to realize that folks have been eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for eons already.

TokyoPlayer I called you a condescending asshole because of the “he won’t get it” comment. That’s why I addressed the insult at you, instead of Bryan Ekers. Bryan simply said “I moved on”. Fine. Yet somehow “he won’t get it”? Bryan was just saying “I’ve been in your shoes”, you were being a dick for no reason, and I called you on it.

But now, since I hit a nerve with you, you feel the need to lash back about every one of my comments. My age, my college major, my parents, my ideas about “bad boys”, etc. I wasn’t stating them because they make me special or awesome. Each comment I made was addressing one of Argent Towers’s baseless assumptions about my character.

And no I’m not a porn snob, or any snob. A snob is someone who looks down on others based on their interests. Do you really think I have the ability to look down upon the millions of people who are content watching “bad” porn every night? Is that even possible? Am I looking down on myself because I watch “bad” porn as well?

I’m sorry, even as crappy of an idea as you all think it is, it is still a completely new concept. Romantic, intimate and affectionate porn that is geared purely towards the minds of straight men. Do you really think that is out there? Do you really think my lack of interest or research has stopped me from finding it? No, it just doesn’t exist.

Does that make me some fucking genius for thinking of it? Does that mean everyone else is stupid for not thinking of this amazing idea? No. Why did it feel enlightening to me? Because it really, truly connected with me. It’s something that I’ve been thinking about for a long time, without even knowing I was thinking it. I came in here to test the waters, to see if other people thought the same way. I didn’t come here to insult people. I sure as hell am not some troll. I don’t enjoy getting in heated arguments with others over the internet.

So why do I keep coming in here saying “You might like it if you try it.” or “You may be pleasantly surprised”? Because in life, that is often the case. A lot of things I’ve enjoyed in life, I would have never tried without some coercion from my friends/family. You all keep insisting that guys don’t want intimacy in porn, yet you base that purely on the idea of combining two seemingly unrelated elements. My idea doesn’t exist yet. I’m not saying you don’t understand my concept. I’m just saying there’s no way you can experience it until you experience it.

My older brother was like this. He’d ask me what music I liked, then I’d go into great detail about one of my favorite bands. Going on and on about their style, what makes them so interesting, and how they’re even critically acclaimed. And I’d hear, “nah, I’m not into that type of stuff”. Then a couple years later he’d come back and tell me about this new CD his girlfriend was playing at his house. About how great it was, and how he loved every track, even though it was something I already recommended to him.

In my brother’s case, I think a lot of the initial rejection of my tastes are based purely on the “older sibling” syndrome. He feels the need to teach me new things, not the other way around. And perhaps that’s the case here. Despite my age and experience, you all want to think of me as this naive young kid who just thought of this amazingly trivial, simplistic idea. “Check this out! Mixing oreos and milk is the greatest thing ever!”

And that’s why I’m getting comments like, “get a girlfriend”, “go get laid”, or “come back when you have some real experience”.

Yeah, it would be nice if I could go back in time and re-write my OP so I don’t offend anyone, or make generalizations. But that’s not possible. I think I’ve done a great job of getting my ideas across, even if sometimes they’re presented in a childish way.

Anyway, this is my last post, I promise this time. Go ahead and insult me. I may or may not read them, but I’m not going to respond anymore.

Who are you? Lord Humungus?

Anyway, I feel strongly inclined to start a Café thread with the impersonal “are there trends in quality porn?” paragraph I mentioned way back in #103. I think there’s quite a lot of meat in such a discussion, and it won’t be beating a dead horse like this thread turned out to be, or like beating the meat of a dead horse, or something.

[ul][li]Video cameras - getting cheaper and better[/li][li]Home-computer video editing. Ditto.[/li][li]Internet distribution - Ditto, with a mechanism for near-instant feedback and the forming of circles of people of similar interest, though separated wildly by geography[/li][li]A camera-seeking talent pool, spurred by such casual exhibition as occurs in “girls gone wild” videos and reality TV generally - a cheerful willingness to perform for the camera, anytime, anywhere, anyhow.[/ul][/li]
Sure, 90% of what the new filmmakers produce will be crap, but that’s always been true. Does it help or hurt the porn industry when amateurs can produce films to pander to their own tastes and share it with others of similar taste? Will professional production have to innovate to distinguish itself, and if so, how? Or will it not bother and just keep cranking out the porn equivalent of fast food - cheap and satisfying and safely predictable to a great many people.

Or is all of this just blowing smoke, and will amateur production remain a small relatively uninfluential part of the whole? Treated as a serious study of an industry in transition, we could dispense with any crap about what constitutes “good taste”; such opinions being subjective to the point of useless.

Maybe for you. It’s hardly universal. I used to be really involved in theater. I’ve watched guys I was interested in making out with other girls on stage. Didn’t make me feel jealous. You’re probably the type of guy who can’t stand looking at old photos of your current girl with her ex, either, I’ll bet. That kind of thing doesn’t bother me.

It sounds like a money losing proposition.

I wouldn’t invest in it, because I can’t picture a market for it. I know that I, personally, would find such a porno very boring and that I can’t imagine one guy I know being interested in that.

Why, despite being the only person in this thread who expressed any interest in actually watching a porno like this, do you think there’s such a huge market for it?

To be fair I think two other people said they’d give it a chance.

OK, I have to go to sleep, so I haven’t finished the first page of this thread yet. I like the cut of your jib, Senior Smith. I get where you’re coming from.

Just remember, tastes vary by the individual, & what you’re talking about is what’s perfect for you, which may have diddly to do with what anyone else finds attractive. If you’re into this kind of thing, then that’s you. Don’t worry about what seems standard in porn; it’s just a pragmatic interpretation of someone else’s random tastes.