Well count me as one who had to look up metonymy and synecdoche - of course as soon as I did I realised I wouldn’t be using either any time soon.
[QUOTE=Weirddave]
It’s pretty clear that, all of her lip service to the contrary, she considers folks who chose abstinence to be strange and unnatural and premarital sex to be normal and a good idea (“I think if I were a blushing bride all worked up for my wedding night, I would already be nervous enough that, with one glimpse of that thing, I’d pass out.”). Again, I actually agree with those views, BUT I am not going to tell someone who holds opposing thoughts on the matter “I’m right and you’re wrong” without being completely aware of the hypocritical nature of my statement; doing so in the context of a rant that comes down to condemning the other person for their beliefs that they are right and other people are wrong is a two for one gig: Hypocritical and ironic.
[/quote]
I still disagree it’s the same thing.
The OP is castigating the pitted woman for applying her standards to everyone. Even if you consider her to be only paying “lip service” (Why not lip service the other way, anyway?), the OP isn’t AFAIK preaching her message to those that she thinks should listen.
And there’s still the point that the pitted woman is disagreeing with other’s views, whilst the OP is disagreeing with the pitted woman’s reasoning.
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
Janie? There’s a pic in the article.
[/QUOTE]
She’d be do-able if she’d smile. She doesn’t look all that happy.
[QUOTE=Astroboy14]
She’d be do-able if she’d smile. She doesn’t look all that happy.
[/QUOTE]
How happy would you be if you haven’t been laid?
[QUOTE=ZebraShaSha]
How happy would you be if you haven’t been laid?
[/QUOTE]
She’s also never known the self induced pleasures of the flesh. Sure, sometimes I go on record long dry spells, but to bring back an old Seinfeld joke, during those times, I’m not exactly Master of my Domain. Without my orgasms (and my frozen Kit Kat bars) I am NOT a happy camper.
[QUOTE=Silver Tyger Girl]
And don’t forget killing bugs.
(I’m a virgin. It ain’t that great.)
[/QUOTE]
Being a virgin ceased to be a bother some years ago. Sure I’m disappointed, but sometimes it just doesn’t happen, especially for a guy with next to no sense of humour.
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
I think she must have control issues–to fear orgasm (ie to lose control) and intimacy that much. 
[/QUOTE]
IIRC it is a fairly common perception initially when you first masturbate to orgasm that alot of people wonder if something just went very very wrong? Maybe she never escaped that particular misconception.
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
How true! My wife (and young sons) are petrified of Spiders and such…the worst is when I’m doing my guy thing with the newspaper in the bathroom, expecting a half hour of peace and I hear the shrieking from the farthest point from where you are currently situated in the house…I can never kill the damn things fast enough!
[/QUOTE]
I can take care of my own bugs (Spiders and house centipedes are allowed to live in peace as long as they don’t crawl on and/or startle me). With a whole bunch of whimpering and shrieking, sure, but I can do it.
Unless it’s a cricket. Then we’re talking freak out city.
I’m torn how to answer this. Part of me wants to exclaim “Sibling!”, but there’s another part of me that wants to say “So, how you doing” and then there’s the other part that wonders if no sense of humor would work with a profoundly warped sense of humor and then I get all caught up thinking about the shinies how they sparkle.
Also a virgin, also not particularly bothered by it, not particularly saving myself for marriage, and totally not of the opinion that abstinence (not counting masturbation, only sexual congress with another person) is an answer for anything except certain priesthoods and enforced periods of separation from significant others or hook-up objects (or someone inbetween).
[QUOTE=drachillix]
IIRC it is a fairly common perception initially when you first masturbate to orgasm that alot of people wonder if something just went very very wrong?
[/QUOTE]
Really? I’m not being a wiseass here (for once), I’m honestly curious. I think the first time I had an orgasm I was eleven or twelve, and my reaction was far less “what the hell?” than it was, well… Madeleine Kahn in Young Frankenstein. And I’m pretty sure I’m not any sort of savant.
I can’t think of anything sadder than being scared of orgasms.
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
I have a problem with her pushing her completely unproven, and in some cases demonstrably false, assertions about sex and oxytocin as actual fact.
[/QUOTE]
Sure. I do too–didn’t you read the rest of my post? She can believe whatever she wants to believe re sex and orgasm. It’s the pushing it onto others I find distasteful, misguided and wrong. She’s so garbled and mixed up re “the facts of life” that I feel sorry for her. (that and the other reasons I mentioned already).
[QUOTE=drachillix]
IIRC it is a fairly common perception initially when you first masturbate to orgasm that alot of people wonder if something just went very very wrong? Maybe she never escaped that particular misconception.
[/QUOTE]
Enlighten me–I have never heard of such a thing. I can see how someone (perhaps very young) might not know what just occurred, but how is it seen as something going wrong? Maybe they’re not sure what happened? 
Dang it, you guys, I pop off to class and I come back and things have been argued and re-argued in my absence. Since it’s my OP, I do feel a bit obligated to reply, but Illuminatiprimus said it about how I would have:
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus]
As others have pointed out in this thread the OP isn’t pitting abstinence, she’s pitting the self-righteous and evangelical nature of the movement that is trying to get others to take up abstinence based on some very shaky reasoning and unproven research. As the OP says quite a few times she’s all for people abstaining if that’s what they want, as much as she is for people having sex if that’s what they want - it’s a choice.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I’m not in the habit of converting wayward virgins, and I don’t like being lectured myself, individual choice is good, logic is good, etc. I could repeat myself, but I’m afraid of repeating myself. I just hope I haven’t repeated myself. It’s rather less fun without the rhetorical flourishes and so on.
Just remember: different strokes for different folks. And for some folks, no strokes at all.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Essay, I propose we have sex immediately in celebration of your position. Agreed?
[/QUOTE]
Uh… provided that you mean with our respective partners rather than each other, I’m all for it. 
[QUOTE=DianaG]
Really? I’m not being a wiseass here (for once), I’m honestly curious. I think the first time I had an orgasm I was eleven or twelve, and my reaction was far less “what the hell?” than it was, well… Madeleine Kahn in Young Frankenstein. And I’m pretty sure I’m not any sort of savant.
I can’t think of anything sadder than being scared of orgasms.
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. Good question. I don’t remember my first, but I’ve been experiencing it since the age of four so I guess I’ve had time to get used to it. Of course, a lot of “Oh no, oh no, something’s terribly wrong” ensued when my parents started freaking out over it…but I got over that with a healthy dose of Judy Blume as a preteen. But yeah, I think if I hadn’t been told that I was doing something wrong, I would have just continued to have my mind blown.
[QUOTE=SisterCoyote]
Also a virgin, also not particularly bothered by it, not particularly saving myself for marriage, and totally not of the opinion that abstinence (not counting masturbation, only sexual congress with another person) is an answer for anything except certain priesthoods and enforced periods of separation from significant others or hook-up objects (or someone inbetween).
[/QUOTE]
Another not particularly troubled virgin chiming in. Unless we’re counting masturbation, anyway, in which case…ahem. Well.
I’m not saving myself for marriage. I just haven’t ever been in a situation that made me want to have sex with the other person (or, heck, people [I’ve had some odd dating experiences]) that I was with. This is what works for me and I feel no need to come up with some elaborate “logic” behind it or argue about how it’s the right choice. It’s mine. It’s not a particularly big deal. Most likely, like the majority of personal decisions, it’s entirely illogical. I very rarely even mention it, even when the topic of sex comes up. Usually, the whole concept of virginity strikes me as fairly silly.
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Sure. I do too–didn’t you read the rest of my post?
[/QUOTE]
I saw it, I was just using your post as a springboard to specifically mention how her hormone theories are wrong.
Sorry about the unintended implication that I thought you didn’t disagree with her pushing her ‘theories’.
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
I saw it, I was just using your post as a springboard to specifically mention how her hormone theories are wrong.
Sorry about the unintended implication that I thought you didn’t disagree with her pushing her ‘theories’.
[/QUOTE]
It’s Monday and I’ve given my brain its weekly holiday. 
I may re-virginize* in my near future. Sex complicates things.
*a concept familiar to all who read the Sweet Potato Queen books.
I will never understand the outrage against abstinence. It really is to the point where people act as though it is shameful to live a virgin lifestyle.
And that’s all it is, a lifestyle choice. A virgin-until-marriage never has to worry about teen pregnancy, and STDs are not a concern at all. Plus, it is an excellent time to hone one’s masturbation skills. It really is a lifestyle choice that reduces stress and worry, and makes dating relationships easier, for personalities which jive well with the virginity lifestyle. (I hate that I have to emphasize so many points in order to clarify that I don’t belong in the pigeon-hole into which so many people try to force virgins. Uh, so to speak).
The only thing I hate about choosing to wait until marriage is that everyone else jumps at the opportunity to harshly criticize you for hating gays, burning witches, and trying to take away everyone else’s sex priviliges. I have no desire to alter the sexual behavior of anyone else. I think people should be responsible and prepared for potential consequences of sexual activity, but to each their own. If people are turned on by something I find bizarre and unappealing, go ahead and enjoy it. I am appalled that gay marriage isn’t widely accepted, legal, and common. I am honestly not bothered by the sexual practices of other people, and I don’t even think about it much. Please do not assume that every virgin is a raving lunatic trying to shove their “superior” morals down your throat.
The decision to wait until marriage isnothing more than a lifestyle choice that just makes sense to me. In the same way that makes no sense at all to you, having sex before, or outside of, marriage makes no sense to me.
The only way I can comprehend the raw hatred is to recognize that maybe I’m just so damn sexy that people respond aggressively at the notion that they would have to wait in order to have sex with me, and they want sex with me right now. Sorry, folks. My theory is that I’m genetically predisposed to one partner with which to mate for life.
And, therefore, there is nothing wrong with organizing with like-minded people. I would see such a group as a great way to pick up chicks (with whom I would be compatible). If enough organizations like this spring up, I could see a large-scale attempt at promoting the acceptance of this lifestyle. Live and let live. We’re emergin’, we’re virgins, get used to it!
I really hope that Ms Fredell doesn’t find herself widowed at 40 and in the position where she has devalued sex with her second husband by having had a sex life with the first.
I have to say from experience that sex in a loving non-marital relationship beats the pants off of sex in a bad marriage.
[QUOTE=Voyager]
Excellent pitting (especially for a near-virgin ) As an MIT grad,can I add that it just figures this was at Harvard?
[/QUOTE]
Heh, some things never change. When I was there 15-odd years ago, the puritans du jour called themselves AALARM: the Association Against Learning in the Absence of Religion and Morality. They had their collective panties in a twist over premarital sex, homosexuality, acceptance of homosexuality, atheism, contraception, non judeo-christian religions, and all the general godlessness to be found on campus. The real fun started when the conservative evangelical campus chaplain came out of the closet in response to one of AALARM’s anti-gay rallies.
If it makes any difference, I offset their abstinence efforts by not only losing my virginity at Harvard, but also helping two young ladies shed theirs as well.
[QUOTE=Essay]
And then there’s the false dichotomy thing, my favorite logical fallacy. God, those piss me off. Always.
[/QUOTE]
Then you must want the terrorists to win! 
Welcome to the SDMB, Essay - great first rant!
These bozos are pushing a religious agenda in disguise of a non-religious one. And a poor disguise at that. They’re cherry-picking (hah!) facts to support their view, even “facts” that are outdated, if they were ever accurate. I suppose the whole “shall not bear false witness” thing is just for other people. :rolleyes: