Stupid liberal idea of the day

[curlcoat]

@Bryan_Ekers

Hey, they ain’t my fruits and vegetables. What the U.S. does regarding its southern border is only of academic interest to me.

Then why do you expect me to care more about the price of produce than the myriad problems illegals cause us?

Actually, I expect the 15% estimate to be rather low. Aren’t there a number of farming operations that can’t afford to pay minimum wage, that would shut down (or see their output greatly restricted) if they couldn’t hire illegals?

I don’t know since I no longer live in a rural area, but if these farms are paying less than minimum, then no matter who is working for them will end up having to get the government to supplement them. If the government needs to support farming to get reasonable food prices, have them do it directly so the farms can pay a living wage. Or have prisoners work the farms. Or get hopping on more mechanization. Expecting people to live poorly just to get low food prices for the country isn’t the answer.

Besides, now you’re acting all concerned about them not being treated like slaves? That’s mighty white of you, I must say, showing some concern for their well-being at this late date. These people don’t go to the U.S. to be slaves - they go because being underpaid in the U.S. is better than what they can get at home.

I am not “acting” anything. As for them coming here because even farm work is better than home, that only applies to a same percentage of the illegals we get, and it’s still only marginally better, if at all. Meanwhile it forces the rest of us to pay more and more in taxes, and we can’t afford to keep doing that.

Have you ever been to or lived next door to a third world country? It’s an eyeopener. When I lived in Washington, I had no real opinion on the illegals that came up to work the orchards for a couple of months a year. Then I moved down here, and have been all over Mexico. Those people need help, but it can’t be done by moving hundreds of thousands of uneducated people here and continuing to overpopulate down there.

Well, here’s a wacky idea - make them legal. You don’t have to give them citizenship, some sort of work-visa system will suffice. At the very least, you’ll save the money wasted on law enforcement efforts to round up illegals who otherwise just want to work and get paid and mind their own business.

As I asked above, do you really think it’s a good idea to give them all work visas when we have so many out of work citizens already? Plus, even if they are legal, they still aren’t going to be able to pay enough taxes to cover everything they would need. Hell, I don’t even want to think about how many non-English speaking children that would add to our already very much in trouble school systems here.
mister nyx - see See post #587.

[mister_nyx]

@curlcoat

mister nyx - see See post #587.

Post 587 didn’t include a reference to you deciding to get a job and earn money rather than sponging off the rest of us. So it’s hardly a rebuttal to my (obvious but apparently devastating) point about how those of us who earn our money have the right to decide to do things with it besides paying Republicans like you not to work.

[Zeriel]

@curlcoat

Hell, I don’t even want to think

Well, let me tell you, you’re certainly accomplishing THAT goal here.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@curlcoat

The word “entitle” means that a person has done something to earn it - for example, he is entitled to drive because he passed the test and paid the fee. If the state has passed a law that says that known illegals can collect workers comp if injured, that’s pathetic but it still isn’t something they are entitled to since they haven’t done anything to earn it and qualified illegally.

I’m wasting my time, but I’m a glutton for punishment, so what the hell…

All you have to do to be entitled to workers’ compensation benefits is have a job and be injured. Illegal aliens who have jobs and are injured are therefore entitled to workers’ compensation benefits on exactly the same basis as everyone else.

Here, I’ll spell it out for you:

[QUOTE=Merriam-Webster]
en ti tle - to furnish with proper grounds for seeking or claiming something
[/QUOTE]

The laws the various states passed entitle illegal aliens who are hurt on the job to workers’ compensation benefits. In fact, that’s exactly how entitlement to a driver’s license works, too - the state passes a law which entitles you to a license upon passing a test and paying a fee.

You don’t get to redefine words in order to win arguments, though you’re welcome to keep trying.

[curlcoat]

@mister_nyx

Post 587 didn’t include a reference to you deciding to get a job and earn money rather than sponging off the rest of us. So it’s hardly a rebuttal to my (obvious but apparently devastating) point about how those of us who earn our money have the right to decide to do things with it besides paying Republicans like you not to work.

The point of referring you back to that post is I have responded to everything you have said and you are now repeating yourself - looking for a different answer? Dunno. Whatever, I am not going to spend time and tendons on you unless you find that clue I talked about in post #587. Specifically try to read, absorb and remember this part -

You have no idea what you are talking about.

If you manage to go forth and educate yourself on disability, social security and how being valuable to society involves more than getting a paycheck and then come back and post, it might be interesting enough for me to bother with. Otherwise - post # 587.

Protip: reading junk from others in here who don’t know how those things work doesn’t qualify as an education.

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

You don’t get to redefine words in order to win arguments

Neither do you - from dictionary.com

"to give (a person or thing) a title, right, or claim to something; furnish with grounds for laying claim: His executive position entitled him to certain courtesies rarely accorded others. "

See? The exec earns those certain courtesies (whatever those are) by whatever he had to do to get to that position. An illegal hasn’t done anything to earn workers comp as he (99% of the time) hasn’t worked long enough to pay much into it, and he is breaking the law.

Even your suspiciously short definition doesn’t really hold up, since I cannot see how perpetuating an illegal act furnishes anyone with grounds to claim anything. As I said earlier, this is like giving a burglar the right to claim on my homeowners for tripping on a chair while he was stealing my TV.

There is a difference between a legal right and being entitled to something.

[mister_nyx]

@curlcoat

Specifically try to read, absorb and remember this part

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Except I’ve already responded to your ‘argument’, which means you must be saying this because you can’t really answer the things I said. I mean, or else you would have, rather than ignoring or deflecting.

If you manage to go forth and educate yourself on disability, social security and how being valuable to society involves more than getting a paycheck and then come back and post, it might be interesting enough for me to bother with. Otherwise - post # 587.

No thanks, I’ll settle for you explaining to me why not only are you entitled to some of the money I earn, but you’re also entitled to complain because I and the rest of productive society choose to devote some of our money to causes we determine worthwhile. In summary, why do you feel entitled to tell me what I’m allowed to do even with the rest of my money, the part you’re not already being given? Why isn’t the fact that you are being given my money in lieu of earning your own enough to satisfy your desire to spend others’ money?

I mean, you’ve already given enough evasive, incoherent bluster to show that you can’t even touch on the rest of my questions. But I’d like an answer to that one rather than just attempts to avoid it.

[ladyfoxfyre]

@curlcoat

An illegal hasn’t done anything to earn workers comp as he (99% of the time) hasn’t worked long enough to pay much into it, and he is breaking the law.

Worker’s Comp is insurance held by the employer, not something paid into by an employee. It doesn’t work like the system you receive benefits from. It’s not “earned”, it’s meant to hold employers responsible for injuries occurring as a result of employment. Also, when people use phrases like “99% of the time…” you can be assured they are pulling that straight out of their asses at best, and abjectly lying at worst. Which is interesting due to how vocal you are about people not commenting on things they’re “obviously” misinformed about.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@curlcoat

Then why do you expect me to care more about the price of produce than the myriad problems illegals cause us?

Indications are that a lot of the problems are largely being created by the Americans themselves - wanting cheap goods and services while hassling the people who make it possible.

Hell, I don’t even want to think about how many non-English speaking children that would add to our already very much in trouble school systems here.

Well, adjust your priorities. Pay more for schooling (and less for something else), teach the kids English, rapidly assimilate them and they’ll be as American as any other American.

[curlcoat]

@mister_nyx

Except I’ve already responded to your ‘argument’,

In ways that I have shown you, again and again, merely point out how little you know about the subject. Since I am tired of repeating myself, I merely point you back to that fact by suggesting you look at the end of post #587. Tho now I may switch to pointing you to post #605.

I don’t know why you feel you need responses from me, but unless you start speaking to the point, quit making wild guesses and erroneous assumptions, and showing you have at least some grasp of the subject, you are out of luck. Well, except for me pointing you back to prior post and maybe a few other words should you manage to come up with a little something new.

@ladyfoxfyre

Worker’s Comp is insurance held by the employer, not something paid into by an employee.

In this state the workers also pay into worker’s comp - it’s a payroll tax lumped in with unemployment and state disability. I don’t know if I paid it in Washington, but I did here and my husband continues to. This may be in reaction to the state losing so many businesses, I don’t know.

Also, when people use phrases like “99% of the time…” you can be assured they are pulling that straight out of their asses at best, and abjectly lying at worst. Which is interesting due to how vocal you are about people not commenting on things they’re “obviously” misinformed about.

I have already said at least twice that one of the major problems with illegals is pinning them down in any way. Such as trying to figure out how long they work on average before getting injured on the job and taking workers comp. However, simple logic will show that since they start working as adults, and generally not super young adults, and many have short work histories due to being found out and sent back to Mexico, and they tend to get the kind of jobs where injuries are more common, it doesn’t take much to figure out that most injured illegals haven’t been on the job in this country all that long. 99% was an exaggeration but seems like that would have been obvious.

@Bryan_Ekers

Indications are that a lot of the problems are largely being created by the Americans themselves - wanting cheap goods and services while hassling the people who make it possible.

Most likely. I don’t happen to think that food prices should be dependent on hiring and abusing people who are afraid to speak up.

Well, adjust your priorities. Pay more for schooling (and less for something else), teach the kids English, rapidly assimilate them and they’ll be as American as any other American.

This is something you don’t know anything about. For one thing, as I’ve said MANY times, the state has no money left. For another, it takes years to teach them English and their parents expect the schools to do it. So, we have kids entering school (at seven years of age at the youngest) knowing no or very little English and right away they are behind. So either the school takes time and resources they don’t have to teach the kids English and other subjects separately, or they teach in two languages without funds to buy books in Spanish and bi-lingual teachers, or they adjust the class to the rate the Spanish speaking children can learn at. Most of the schools seem to be opting for that last one, which I suppose why we have so many high school graduates with poor grasps of spelling, writing, math.

[Maus_Magill]

I’ve got a stupid liberal idea:

Why not take the curlcoat show to another thread, so this one may return to the original intent of pointing and laughing at stupid liberal ideas?

[otternell]

@Maus_Magill

I’ve got a stupid liberal idea:

Why not take the curlcoat show to another thread, so this one may return to the original intent of pointing and laughing at stupid liberal ideas?

I’ve got an even stupider idea: create the curlcoat show thread, and every time a thread turns into a cc show (this isn’t the first I’ve seen certainly) then it can go to the cc show thread, and the argument wouldn’t even have to continue, since its all already happened before. I am almost positive some other thread has been derailed for exactly this same discussion with cc.

I enjoy both the stupid liberal and stupid republican threads. At least when they haven’t been hijacked.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@curlcoat

In this state the workers also pay into worker’s comp - it’s a payroll tax lumped in with unemployment and state disability. I don’t know if I paid it in Washington, but I did here and my husband continues to. This may be in reaction to the state losing so many businesses, I don’t know.

No, they don’t. California payroll taxes go to (1) the State Disability Insurance fund, which pays benefits to people unable to work because of injuries unrelated to work, (2) the Employment Training Tax, and (3) the state unemployment insurance fund.

It wouldn’t even make sense for California workers to “pay in” to workers’ compensation via payroll tax deduction, because California does not have a central workers’ compensation fund except for state workers. Coverage is provided by employers via self-insurance funds and private insurance vendors.

Employee contributions to workers’ compensation benefits are a violation of procedural due process rights, because workers’ compensation is a quid pro quo between employers and workers in which workers waive their right to sue employers for negligence in exchange for guaranteed employer paid benefits for work injuries regardless of fault.

Let it go. You’re wrong.

[Clothahump]

California seems to be the testing ground for dumbass ideas. Brown is proposing raising spending and taxes and effectively stomping on any kind of economic recovery.

Gov. Brown’s Tax Hikes Would Kill California Comeback

Posted 01/06/2012 06:35 PM ET

The States: As California enters a second decade of decline, its old-new Gov. Jerry Brown has a plan for its revival: A 7% rise in government spending, with a tax hike to match. This is innovative thinking?

To call Brown’s latest plan foolish does a disservice to fools. At least fools make you laugh. After reading Gov. Moonbeam’s latest budget, taxpayers might want to cry.

http://news.investors.com/Article/597010/201201061835/california-brown-budget-tax-hikes.htm

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Surely there can be no more compelling source than an unsigned editorial.

[Dag_Otto]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Surely there can be no more compelling source than an unsigned editorial.

Actually, they are good enough for 99% of conservatives.

[Revtim]

Bill would ban Photoshopped heads on nude, lewd bodies

H.B. 680, filed by state Rep. Pam Dickerson, D-Conyers, would make it a misdemeanor to Photoshop an unsuspecting – or heck, even suspecting – individual’s head on the nude or lewd body of another, and posting the image on the Internet.

Such an act would be a misdemeanor punishable by a $1,000 fine or a year in the hoosegow.

I guess it’s debatable if this is a “liberal” idea or not. I associate liberalism with permissiveness, which this is kind of the opposite of. It comes from a democrat, is that close enough?

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Revtim

I guess it’s debatable if this is a “liberal” idea or not. I associate liberalism with permissiveness, which this is kind of the opposite of. It comes from a democrat, is that close enough?

<looks at judges> In the spirit of keeping the thread on track, they’ll allow it.

[DianaG]

I imagine that the interwebs will soon provide Representative “My hed iz pastede on yay” Dickerson with plenty of personal motivation to push hard for this bill to pass.

[Taber]

@Revtim

Bill would ban Photoshopped heads on nude, lewd bodies

I guess it’s debatable if this is a “liberal” idea or not. I associate liberalism with permissiveness, which this is kind of the opposite of. It comes from a democrat, is that close enough?

Eh, it isn’t too hard to see how that could be used as harassment. I’m fine with that bill.

[Zeriel]

@Revtim

Bill would ban Photoshopped heads on nude, lewd bodies
I guess it’s debatable if this is a “liberal” idea or not. I associate liberalism with permissiveness, which this is kind of the opposite of. It comes from a democrat, is that close enough?

Probably–liberals are also associated with anti-bullying and anti-hate-crime measures, and this fits in there easily enough.

And to boot, it’s actually stupid. Unenforceable, for one.