Subway and the Yoga Mat chemical.

[Ferret_Herder]

Reminds me of the flap going around on Facebook about “OMG Naked juice uses this chemical derived from formaldehyde in their products!!!” What the hype wasn’t saying was that it was calcium pantothenate, which is a more stable form of pantothenic acid (aka vitamin B5) commonly found in vitamin supplements, and which seems in that form to be able to help people during exercise by getting rid of lactic acid buildup and improve oxygen use. But no, it was OMG FORMALDEHYDE! hysteria. :smack:

And yeah, I agree with WhyNot’s points. If it’s actually harmful in quantity and that widespread then everyone should be banning it, and I give zero fucks if it’s used in yoga mats or nuclear warhead paint.

[Amateur_Barbarian]

@TimeWinder

See also: “toxins,” “artificial,” “organic,” and “natural.” And with more caveats: “processed.” All of these words have meaningful definitions in specific fields, but when applied to food as “scare” or “health” indicators, are effectively meaningless.

We clearly agree, but I’d like you to give me a sentence that has a *good *use of “toxins” in it.

[bump]

The article’s a little bit sensationalist in that azodicarbonamide isn’t added to the bread, it’s used as a bleaching agent in the flour that goes into the bread in quantities up to 45 ppm.

It’s not like it’s in huge quantities, and it’s on the GRAS list, so it’s a bit excessive for this chick to get her panties in such a twist.

[gigi]

Is this where the “Subway bread smell” comes from?

[SpoilerVirgin]

@Amateur_Barbarian

We clearly agree, but I’d like you to give me a sentence that has a *good *use of “toxins” in it.

“A number of studies, both controlled and open-label, have demonstrated efficacy (to various degrees) of botulinum toxin for migraine and chronic daily headache. In addition, several small studies on cluster headache patients indicate that botulinum toxin may be useful in selected cluster patients.”

[TimeWinder]

@Amateur_Barbarian

We clearly agree, but I’d like you to give me a sentence that has a *good *use of “toxins” in it.

“Lead, mercury, and arsenic are toxins in the food supply, and are good for poisoning people with, since they’re usually attributed to natural causes.”

It is, admittedly, a fairly vague replacement for “poisons” or “heavy metals” in this context.

[Canadjun]

@TimeWinder

“Lead, mercury, and arsenic are toxins in the food supply, and are good for poisoning people with, since they’re usually attributed to natural causes.”

It is, admittedly, a fairly vague replacement for “poisons” or “heavy metals” in this context.

But toxin has a more specific meaning than poison (note that SpoilerVirgin’s example is a good one).

[SeaDragonTattoo]

@Inner_Stickler

Arsenic is a chemical, sodium hexafluoride is a chemical, water is a chemical, beef broth is chemicals, and strawberries are chemicals. If you want me to be upset, you need to do more then scream, CHEMICALS.

@Canadjun

Certainly when you talk about harmful substances in food it is.

By the way, is acetic acid a chemical? How about ascorbic acid? citric acid?

Nothing grates on me more (OK, a few things do) than when people screech, “that’s bad for you because chemicals!”

I usually reply, “well you certainly don’t want to eat this, because it’s got 2-Oxo-L-threo-hexono-1,4-lactone-2,3-enediol in it.”

Just because something doesn’t have common name doesn’t mean it’s toxic. Sure, there’s stuff in manufactured food that we shouldn’t eat, but I don’t find the argument anything but ignorant and alarmist when it starts with any kind of, “because chemicals!” Well, there are lots of things that have a list of chemicals in them, because everything is chemical when you break it down.

The fresh, delicious smell of real, organic, from your garden strawberries? Looks something like this:

(From Wiki) methyl acetate, ethyl acetate, methyl propanoate, isopropyl acetate, ethyl propanoate, methyl butyrate, (E)-2-pentenal, butyric acid, methyl isovalerate, 3-hexanone (IS), ethyl butyrate, n-hexanal, butyl acetate, methyl pentanoate, 2-methyl butanoic acid, isopropyl butanoate, ethyl 2-methylbutanoate, ethyl 3-methylbutanoate, (E)-hexanal, (E)-2-hexen-1-ol, 1-hexanol, isoamyl acetate, 2-methylbutyl acetate, 2-heptanone, propyl butyrate, ethyl pentanoate, 2-heptanol, amyl acetate, (E,E)-2,4-hexadienal, methyl hexanoate, hexanoic acid, benzaldehyde, butyl butyrate, ethyl hexanoate, (Z)-3-hexenyl acetate, hexyl acetate, (E)-2-hexenyl acetate, isopropyl hexanoate, ethyl-2-hexenoate, d-limonene, amyl butyrate, furaneol, heptanoic acid, mesifurane, propyl hexanoate, linalool, nonanal, methyl octanoate, octanoic acid, ocimenol, benzyl acetate, ethyl benzoate, butyl hexanoate, ethyl octanoate, octyl acetate, alpha-terpineol, isoamyl hexanoate, nonanoic acid, octyl butyrate, ethyl decanoate, decyl acetate, octyl butyrate, ethyl decanoate, decyl acetate, octyl isovalerate, beta-farnesene, gamma-decalactone, alpha-farnesene, (E)-nerolidol, octyl hexanoate, decyl butyrate, gamma-dodecalactone.

That’s just the scent. Of fresh, unadulterated, good for you, strawberries.

While I prefer to consume whole foods that have an ingredients list I can pronounce, there are plenty of ingredients that are wholly benign that simply don’t have a common name that sounds like something nice.

How about instead of calling it azodicarbonamide, all the food manufacturers got together and agreed to call it “Flour Power” from the get-go and the name azodicarbonamide never made it to the ingredients list? I wonder if that would have pinged the Food Babe’s radar if it was always known by some benign name? I thought her whole crusade against Kraft Mac’N Cheese was silly, too. I sort of get her point, but at the same time, buy Annie’s and get over yourself. I guess it’s fun to try, though. Or at least gets money-making traffic on her blog. That couldn’t possibly be a motivation.

[TBG]

Now if only we could just get them to take the dihydrogen monoxide out of their drinks. That stuff has a long, well documented history of killing people.

[TimeWinder]

@Canadjun

But toxin has a more specific meaning than poison (note that SpoilerVirgin’s example is a good one).

Indeed. I wasn’t actually aware of that distinction until I just looked it up (toxins being specifically of biological origin).

[Senegoid]

@Rachellelogram

sage nod Dihydrogen monoxide is also responsible for countless drownings around the world every year!

AND, it’s added to many of our most common foodstuffs (or occurs naturally therein), although it’s also a major ingredient in anti-freeze!

[Canadjun]

@TBG

Now if only we could just get them to take the dihydrogen monoxide out of their drinks. That stuff has a long, well documented history of killing people.

I bet it’s even used somewhere in the process of making yoga mats! :eek:

[WhyNot]

That’s it, I’m giving up yoga.

[BigT]

The fact that chemical X is used in object Y (or, worse, is “similar” to chemical Z which is used in object Y) means nothing, I agree. But what does give me pause is that the chemical has been banned in Europe. That actually tells you something. You have to then wonder why it’s allowed in one place and not in another. The FDA is usually regarded as being more strict rather than less strict.

Unfortunately, with our uninformed populace, the only way to affect change seems to be to overly sensationalize something to the point where the net value of keeping the chemical plus the bad publicity is higher than removing it and getting the good publicity. To motivate the mob, you have to pull out the scare words.

[Amateur_Barbarian]

@BigT

Unfortunately, with our uninformed populace, the only way to affect change seems to be to overly sensationalize something to the point where the net value of keeping the chemical plus the bad publicity is higher than removing it and getting the good publicity. To motivate the mob, you have to pull out the scare words.

Maybe that’s because the FDA and USDA will take years to act even when there is evidence of a credible issue, because the food conglomerates wield so much political power that blocking and deflecting bans and safety requirements is routine. You have to stand up and scream in public to get them to act.

Go ahead and note how many cases like this boil down to a choice between a processing additive of questionable safety and profit margin or sales levels for the conglomerates.