Is there evidence of this? Can you link it? I had not heard this before – it makes sense, but I just haven’t seen the reports.
Yes please. I’m not thrilled by Biden, and would have been less happy with Sanders – the candidates I was excited about, and next most excited about, etc. are all gone. But I am super excited about kicking Trump out. I’m also super excited about the Obamas entering the fray once it’s clear who the nominee will be, and all of those other exciting candidates lining up behind the nominee. And if Sanders or anyone else has trouble actively campaigning for Biden, then they should think of it as campaigning against Trump. There has been way to much damage done in the past 3 years for anyone to think of sitting this thing out. Damage to human lives, with real atrocities committed at the border and beyond, damage to our institutions, the rule of law, America’s power to do good in the world, and even America’s power to have a voice that will be listened to, in some contexts. Not to mention all the rolling back of progress that was hard fought on so many issues.
I look forward to voting for Biden in Illinois’ primary. After the horseshit Trump pulled with Ukraine, it would be real poetic justice if Biden was the one to show the con man the door. Of course, in the general I’ll vote for the Democratic nominee, even if it’s Sanders.
I have heard Bernie himself as well as his supporters suggest that the people saying obnoxious things are really Russian trolls, but I too haven’t seen any real evidence of this. I mean, it’s definitely plausible and it fits with Russia’s MO, but I’m considering the claim undetermined until I see some real evidence. Of course there’s a possibility that it’s a mixture of Russian trolls AND real Bernie supporters, too.
At some point, voters have to take some fucking responsibility for not being informed and putting this baboon in the white house. So Joe Biden is a gaffe machine, has a long voting record, and doesn’t promise to wipe out six figure student loan debts - so fucking what? If Joe Biden has to really work hard to convince “progressives” that it’s better to vote for him in 2020 rather than let Trump and the GOP permanently destroy the country, then good fucking luck USA. It was nice knowin’ ya.
Bernie Sanders voters could start showing a little more civic responsibility…by showing up to support their own candidate in greater numbers. Sorry but Instagram likes aren’t votes.
Anyone who says they will sit out if at the end of the voting process their candidate has failed to become the nominee needs to be asked one question - do you want Trump to pick the replacement for Ruth Bader Ginsburg?
I couldn’t disagree with you more. What’s Gaffey Joe’s “message”? “Vote for me 'cause I was Barack Obama’s V.P. and we’re buds”? That’s not a message - that’s a plea. Elizabeth Warren was the best candidate for Prez and the idiot Dems cast her aside, apparently because she hasn’t got a cod-dangle. The Orange Moron is going to KILL IT in November. It won’t even be close.
Wesley, as one of your hated “Boomers,” can I just say we agree far more than not?
Can I also mention that as frustrated and angry as you are at how much ground has been lost under the raw capitalist model as carried out by ruthless Republicans, I am equally frustrated and angry? I can’t even tell you how sad I am at the ground lost that some of us thought we’d gained over the past 50 years. It’s heartbreaking.
Please understand this. I encourage you to not to paint with such a broad brush as you often do. Many of us Boomers are in your corner all the way.
As a Biden supporter, I don’t disagree with any of your points. I want to see all the same things you do. But here’s what I know: A moderate approach almost invariably prevails over a radical one.
Obama knew this, which is why he compromised on the ACA. So let’s start there, with your desires for better health care.
First let me say I prefer Medicare for All. Bernie is absolutely right, it is shameful that we as a first world country do not offer health care to all our citizens as a fundamental right. (See? I do listen to what he says.) Medicare for All was Hillary Clinton’s health care plan, by the way. She proposed to get there in stages.
I remember Obama’s struggle so very well. After a leviathan fight with Republicans, he compromised. He said it was better to get half a loaf than no loaf at all, and then build on the success. And it was a big ****n’ deal. He was far from spineless.
Let’s remember that getting just that half loaf cost him nearly all his political capital. No one in 100 years had managed to instigate such a change in health care. Many had tried, none succeeded. Obama did. Biden helped with that effort, a lot.
Republicans are still fighting just that much progress. Obama’s success in the health care arena so enraged Republicans, they have spent every moment since his presidency to tear apart everything he accomplished. It is frightening the extent to which they have been successful. We may both hate it, but right now they hold all the best cards to maintain their stranglehold on power. We can do nothing until we assume power. So how much progress did we make, really?
These people don’t go away just because we elect Bernie. They will demonize everything Biden Democrats or Bernie Democrats try to do. It will be relentless and the tactics will be filthy and illegal. The end always justifies the means, with these people.
I am someone who has benefited a lot from the ACA. It was a godsend after my husband died and I no longer had access to group health insurance. I am also someone who will lose my livelihood if Medicare for All is enacted. I nonetheless support Medicare for All. But I’m a realist, and I know it’s not going to happen. So for now, I’ll settle for a functioning ACA. Incremental change.
This brings me to another important point about M4A. How is this supposed to be implemented? Do you know how many people rely on this ghastly behemoth of a health care industry we’ve created for their livelihood? Do we just say, “Fuck you people, go find another job!”? No matter what we choose for a health care model, it must be implemented in a gradual way. A public option for the ACA is a good place to start.
The thing is, I think Biden is in agreement with all that you want to accomplish. He will reinstate consumer protections as they were implemented under Obama. He’ll probably ask Elizabeth Warren to head it up or be his Treasury Secretary or something. I am positive he would sign a Constitutional amendment overturning Citizens United when enacted by Congress. (We won’t get rid of it any other way.) He will rejoin the Paris Climate Accord and rebuild the EPA. He has promised to give all teachers a living wage and expand educational opportunities for children, as well as improve child care for families. He will take steps to relieve student debt. On and on.
We are just not that far apart. Since I expect you’re going to have to deal with me voting in elections for at least the next 25 years, I hope we can come to some détente about both being in favor of Democratic policies during that time.
Maybe one other thing, the party as an organization. James Clyburn’s endorsement of Biden might have helped his initial momentum in SC significantly. Then it’s quite possible phone calls were made to Buttigieg and Klobuchar to suggest they get out before Super Tuesday in the party’s interest, or maybe they just connected those dots themselves, but as party members, as opposed to Sanders’ obviously pretty different way of thinking of himself.
But I agree there’s no way to attribute Biden’s remarkable recovery to money. And going back further while it’s true lack of money drove some non-white/male candidates from the race, Biden has again been touch and go on money for awhile. And while Sanders has been relatively flush all along, his money comes from lots of small donors. No plausible system of campaign finance IMO could bar mass small donations.
That’s besides the mega-elephant in the room of Bloomberg’s complete flame out after spending an almost unbelievable amount of money for a primary campaign, and a short one at that. It’s mind boggling how little he achieved per $. It’s a strange moment to be lamenting ‘how easy it is to buy an election’.
Bernie Sanders is making promises he can’t deliver on, and even Sanders knows it – it’s either that or he is naively just hoping that he can somehow convince people to change their minds if he keeps saying the same things over and over again. Sanders promises to shock the system, which might work if this had been 2007 or 1932. But most of the time people don’t want shock therapy.
And my problem with young progressives was on display for all to see last night: they don’t always show up to vote, and I’m not about to listen to excuses for that shit. All we’ve heard since 2015 was how the establishment democrats didn’t do enough – might have been nice if young progressives had shown up to vote in 2010 and not handed Obama a GOP majority, which they only half lost after 2 years of outrageous impeachable behavior from Trump.
I would have liked to see Warren as the nominee, but it ain’t gonna happen. I don’t live in a world of “if only.”
I also stopped believing in people voting for plans. If people wanted plans and policies and positions, Warren wouldn’t have come in third in her home state. People vote for the person they like. The people that are passionate about Sanders don’t care that not a single one of his stated policies will happen if he gets elected. They like him, case closed.
Biden’s message is that he is the anti-Trump. That he is likable. That he will get stuff done because he’s in the middle. What stuff? Nobody cares about specifics. Trump hasn’t gotten through a single one of his campaign promises and it matters not a whit.
The only thing that matters now is turnout. The Republicans have done a fantastic job of getting their people to vote, and a fantastic job of making it harder for minorities to vote. Getting minorities excited about the election will be the deciding factor. Biden owns the black vote; that alone would make him the best Democratic candidate. Sanders does better with Hispanic voters, less of a factor since they are concentrated in states whose vote is predetermined. Whichever one of them is not the candidate will have to beg their voters to follow the nominee. That may be tough.
Just keep remembering that Trump has a 40% core. That makes him hugely vulnerable unless everything breaks just right. People forget how close 2016 was, and the fact that Clinton led until the Comey accusation right before the election. A small shift and he wouldn’t be in office today. Nothing is foreordained. Especially not a Trump landslide.
Do I think Obama flickered an eyelash and silently put his imprimatur on Biden for the party? Yes. Yes, I do.
But how unexpected could that be, from a guy who chose Biden to work with him shoulder to shoulder every day for 8 years? If Obama had lost confidence in Biden, he would have made a VP change in 2012. He didn’t.
I’ve repeatedly heard about backroom chatter from current members of Congress in both the House and the Senate who strongly indicated they did not wish to run their campaigns with Sanders at the top of the ticket. They feel the lift is simply too heavy.
That’s not a conspiracy. It’s just the considered opinions of a bunch of party insiders who know what they’re going to be up against.
Progressives once again fail to understand a basic truth: Democratic voters decide who the better candidate is. Elizabeth Warren got her ass kicked in her own state, so what does that say?
Steve Bullock, Governor of Montana, is set to run for the senate after months of saying he did not intend to. Can’t imagine him doing so if Sanders was at the top of the ticket as Bullock is a classic moderate.
You don’t need specific policy proposals to get elected. “Make America Great Again” was banal, but it worked. Does Biden have plans thought out in as much detail as Warren? No. I don’t care. He’s got empathy, his heart is in the right place, and he’ll do the right thing. Will he get universal health care? No. But neither would Sanders. But Biden will improve and build upon the ACA. That’s all we can ask. Will he get rid of student loan debt? No, but he’ll get rid of Betsy DeVos. Will he end climate change? Nobody can. But he’ll stop making government scientists deny that it’s real. He’ll get us back in the Paris accord. He’ll stop gutting environmental regulations. He’ll reopen dialogue with Iran and stop kissing Un and Putin’s asses. He won’t appoint rabid right wing ideologues to the judiciary. Sure, he could run on things that he can’t deliver. That’s easy. Restoring honesty, integrity, and compassion to the executive branch is more than enough to earn my vote. We’ve got to stop letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
