That was very entertaining, although I was disappointed to see Mike drop his alliance with Christian so quickly.
It was interesting in the video shown right at the end to see that John actually received three votes, so the idol used on Angelina was wasted.
I thought someone was going to use an idol nullifier, but now I can’t remember who has that.
Lucas, is that actually possible to get Christian in a re-vote after an idol has been played to save him?
Yes. As Jeff started showing the votes I kept saying to myself: I hope the Davids figured to split the vote in case an idol is played to save Angelina. Too bad it was John, as I thought he was playing a great game. But then, maybe that’s why the picked him.
I hope this blows things up and doesn’t solidify the Goliaths. But the Davids have the steal the vote option, that could make for another interesting blindside.
Simply outstanding, even though I liked John a lot and was bummed to see him go. But the strategy was masterful.
At that point (in their thinking) the Goliaths wouldn’t have thought that far ahead. And even if they did, they’d think it would be an irrelevant reset. Christian and Angelina would be safe with idols, so you’d get a complete revote with the remaining 6 Goliaths and 4 Davids. Those 6 could pick whomever they pleased, on the spot if necessary, no harm no foul.
The big advantage the Davids had is that when you’re in the minority, you have the luxury of splitting the vote since you don’t have a majority anyway. If the Goliaths saw it as clearly as [del]the Davids[/del] Christian* saw it, they couldn’t split the vote beyond 6-1 without losing the majority over the David 5. So all the Davids had to do was cast at least 2 votes to two different people and they were good to go.
Why John? He’s the one who told the Davids that Christian was the target, so he’s the only Goliath they 100% for sure know is voting Christian. Also he was likable, not an idiot, and would be unbeatable in a strength / power physical challenge. Plus, nobody would suspect he needed to be protected with a second idol.
Even the parting thought was excellent, with John acknowledging the irony that he predicted a brochacho blindside.
*That masterful plan had the cunning and precision of Christian written all over it. I’d be surprised if his contribution to the formulation of it was anything less than 100%.
I loved last night episode. As with others, sorry to see John go. When he was first introduced I didn’t think I would end up liking him. I thought he was going to be another condescending jerk alpha male. But I really liked John. He had a lot of charm, and seemed like a really nice guy. He went out with class, which I always appreciate.
It was actually Alec who spilled the beans to Nick about the Christian vote.
I agree with the opinions shared here. I like John and sorry to see him go. And I thought I would hate him. And Graduate level strategy by the Davids to split the vote between John & Angelina. Since John got two votes, I guess they wanted him out more than Angelina. It would almost be worth the money to buy the CBS All access fee, to see how /who among Davey, Nick, and Christian orchestrated the ouster.
Funniest part was Angelina pleading for the HII from Dan, just like she pleaded with Natalie for Natalie’s jacket a few weeks ago. And then she had to micro-manage Dan’s idol play by making sure he told Jeff her name. She might be the perfect Goat to bring to final Tribal.
Carl is the one with the idol nullifier, and Nick has the steal a vote. Assuming no HII play next week, the Steal-a-Vote is enough to vote out a Goliath next week.
Not unless they’ve changed the rules. In the past, if there’s a tie, the first vote is only between the tied people. So anyone who played an idol is safe since they have zero votes.
The only case where idol play resulted in no valid votes was in Survivor Game Changers, when everyone except Cirie had immunity, from various causes (regular immunity, HII, legacy advantage). So Cirie was immediately eliminated, since she was the only eligible person to get votes in the revote. So the precedent there is that even in the case of no votes being valid and therefore everyone having zero votes, HII players are still safe on the revote.
Lucas may have been mistaken because the rule is that if you haven’t played an HII at the original vote, and are one of the tied players, you cannot play it at the revote.
Yes, I posted hastily right after I watched that episode and confused the rules a bit. But the point still stands (I think), if all of the votes had gone to Christian and Angelina in the re-vote a David would have been ousted. It’s debatable whether the Goliaths didn’t give the Davids that much credit or they just weren’t smart enough to think of it at all, but as has been pointed out (given that they were smart enough to think of it), they were on the horns of a dilemma - if they split the vote they might lose the split/vote and a member, if they vote in a block they risk losing a member to a David split.
Given the look on Christian’s face and the genuine look of indesicion on Davies I’m not a hundred percent convinced it was Christians engineering but maybe they were playing it up to keep a low profile.
And maybe the Davids didn’t care which Goliath went as long as it was a numbers thing. But if it was Christians plan, John would have been the target because he betrayed Christian.
Does anyone know if the contestants get to see all of the votes? In other words, could they have went back to camp not realizing John got more votes than Angelina?
I don’t believe they do, but they can probably guess because they only saw two votes for Angelina. Jeff always reads all the “does not count” votes.
I missed the ending - who voted for John?
Christian, Davey & Nick voted John, Carl & Gabby voted Angelina.
Except that he seemed genuinely shocked when Davie played the idol for him. I give Nick and Davie credit for this one, though I could change my mind with further evidence.
That was well done, and great recognition by the Davids to realize that if they correctly played the idol they could split the vote to avoid counter-idol play. I’m a bit surprised that the Goliath’s didn’t realize that, since we did see them talk about “what if Christian has an idol”.
If they had realized that the Davids would be able to split votes to nullify one idol, and there is almost no way playing two idols is a good idea for Dan, I’m a bit surprised Dan didn’t just let Angelina swing (which of course wouldn’t have saved John, but at least it would have kept him with two idols). Instead he wasted an idol on somebody he didn’t even really want in the game. More likely he/they didn’t even think about the split-vote option from the Davids. Second reason not to play the idol there is that it seems pretty likely that the only way Christian plays an idol is if the jig is up (i.e. somebody spilled the beans about the target). In that case isn’t it pretty likely that even if the Davids don’t split votes they won’t just blindly go after Angelina like they were told to?
I’m thinking it was actually Nick that put it all together. As much as I like Christian, he actually was shown as being pretty oblivious this week. I think he bought into both the “Brochachos” and the “Strike Team 6” way more than was warranted since neither group had actually done anything to show they were loyal. Talk is cheap. He’s also a bit blind if he doesn’t realize how Gabby’s paranoia/drama could spook somebody like Mike.
Final thought - I get targeting John on the strength angle, but if you really want to weaken Dan (which they explicitly said they wanted to do) shouldn’t they have targeted Kara? Dan has a pretty strong hold on the remaining Goliaths now, and has an idol still. Next week should be pretty good with the idol nullifier and the steal-a-vote very much in play in a 6-5 split.
Presumably you meant to write that John got three votes.
Do I understand you to imply that CBS All Access now actually has the thing I’ve been suggesting for years, a “pro version” of the episode (or at least “secret scenes” that are more illuminating than the ones on the free website)?
Cosigned. Safe to say he will very likely be back.
A surprisingly high proportion of very likable players this season, and relatively few I actively dislike (especially after the bossy, socially oblivious woman went home).
I rewatched it on OnDemand. A lot the issues become clear on a rewatch. The Goliaths did realize they might split the vote but they couldn’t be sure, couldn’t afford the gamble. They had to throw everything at the Davids or risk losing a member. Additionally, it was pretty apparent that Nick was the mastermind - not Christian.
Also John was in the initial group that told Christian it was Angelina. Given that he was Brochacho I’m guessing this went a long way to him being a target.
Christian had to have known the idol was going to be played, otherwise why vote for John? But it’s still a pretty stressful strategy to trust someone else to play their idol for you, as anyone who saw Kaoh Rong would know.
Bit late here, but just wanted to chime in and agree… great ep, absolutely masterful work by the Davids at TC. And good job with the editing, too. I really thought Dan was just going to let Angelina hang out to dry, and instead he ended up wasting his idol for someone he doesn’t even like.
I think both Alec and Davie are playing pretty good games. Alec was the one two episodes ago who got the Goliaths to move their vote off Christian and on to Elizabeth to protect his secret alliance without raising suspicions about him. Then he tips off Nick that Christian is the target and gives them enough time to come up with a plan.
Davie has a couple of times shown that he’s a smart, under the radar player. I particularly like the fact that Davie found an idol and resisted the urge to tell anyone who will listen. Are you reading this Dan?
Dalton Ross laid out an interesting scenario for how the Davids could use their vote steal and idol nullifier to take out whoever they want on the Goliaths. By using them in combination, they can ensure themselves of taking out one player on the other side.
Another very exciting episode! Technically, it was again a case where the advantages didn’t need to be played, but I think it was the smart move and got rid of an idol in the process.
The Goliaths SHOULD be scared. The Davids have just proved two TCs in a row that they can think up a plan and work together to pull it off. And with no last minute panic-whisper-planning.