It’s kind of funny reading this thread. There was a set of special occasion manners that was drilled into me since I was a little kid. Largely the same set as most people here. Except I honestly cannot once ever remember eating like like that in our or someones house. Kind of like the good china for special occasions that was never used. It was always with family or good friends. And anytime it was set up to be special there were 12 people at a 6 person table eating off a pie tin with a camping spork , with kids running around, babies needing changed, dogs jumping gates, someone leaving to give the late guy directions on the phone.
Pretty much utter chaos like family and friends is supposed to be :). The Queen never did show up.
What you’re describing (not being a slob) sounds like some form of table manners anyway. What level that’s taken to depends upon the company you keep, your family, culture, traditions, etc.
Saying that table manners should be abolished seems kind of silly, because (in my opinion, anyway), it’s hard to get past having some sort of standard rules of etiquette. That’s why every culture, every country, every family has them and, though they’re all somewhat different, all are based on the same basic principles - eat as neatly as possible, show appreciation (whether that’s comes in the form of, “thank you - that was delicious” or a giant fart), don’t make yourself look like a jackass and don’t inconvenience others.
You just can’t get away from having those rules - whether you like them or not, they tend to develop wherever you are so everyone has some baseline to start from when they interact with each other. Since eating is a very social event, it makes sense that wherever you go has rules for how you eat. Same for greetings (handshake or bow?), talking to people you don’t know (using weather as the “safe” topic), talking to people you know well, talking to those older than you, etc.
[ul]
[li]Everyone is served or serves him/herself, but no one eats until everyone is served.[/li][li]Permission to take seconds is not required, but is appreciated.[/li][li]This does not, however, mean that you can pile up your plate while others get little or none.[/li][li]I don’t care if you finish what’s on your plate or not. We have an obesity epidemic in America in part because parents force their children to finish all their food. If you don’t finish, I assume you’re just not hungry anymore. I expect that you’re an adult and know how much or little to take.[/li][li]If you have bawling, fussy, or hyperactive children, please do your best to calm them down, but don’t scold them at the table. Worst comes to worst, take them out of the room.[/li][li]Please keep your napkin in your lap. I don’t want to see it.[/li][li]Talk, for chrissakes! Don’t just stare at your plate the whole meal.[/li][li]Above all else, keep your elbows off the table! My mother taught me this, and now she does it! :mad:[/li][/ul]
Oh, I forgot about butter and bread!
[ul][li]If there is a dish of butter versus individual pats, do not repeatedly dip into the butter: scoop out a reasonable amount and deposit it on your bread plate, then butter from that[/li][li]Do not cut into or bite pieces off of bread or rolls[/li][li]Do not butter an entire roll or piece of bread at once[/li][li]Break off a bite-sized piece of roll or bread, butter it, then eat that piece[/ul][/li]
Yeah, how dare people expect others to actually be part of a society and not eat in a manner that’s completely disgusting. The nerve!
Oh god, yes. I’d never correct anyone else on their table manners unless they explicitly asked for help, but *holy shit *I’ve had to bite my tongue about this for a few friends and acquaintances.
Now I’m really curious where you grew up and hold old you are. I’m not even 30 yet, and it was absolutely understood when I was growing up that leaving your hat on was very rude. Does it make sense? No. But *many *societal rules are completely arbitrary, or at least become so over time.
I’m sorry, but I just have to stop and guffaw at this. Napkin rings are the nigh antithesis of “very formal,” surpassed only by paper napkins or paper towels. They’re intended for casual family meals where someone will be using the same napkin for more than one meal, so that everyone can tell their used napkins apart.
I can’t speak to the origins, but I was taught that it’s related to not rushing through the meal or shoveling food into your mouth. You cut off one piece at a time because (a) you’re a person, not an animal, and (b) the more slowly you eat the meal, the more you can savor it.
I can see how chewing with mouth open would be undesirable for most people, but in what way does having a fork in the right or left hand have anything to do with “disgusting”?
A good chunk of the “manners” described here have little to do with being disgusting. If that were the case, there would be a very minimum set of rules, along the lines of chew with your mouth closed and don’t emit bodily noises or fluids while at the table.
All this stuff about what implement to hold in what hand in what way at what time is all stuff and nonsense and the very fact that Person A is noticing what Person B is doing in this regard means that Person A is diverting his or her attention from Person B as a human being rather than as a demonstrator of arbitrary rules.
The very fact that there’s so much variation from society-to-society, household-to-household, and even individual-to-individual pretty much proves the point. We’re a multicultural global society now; it’s time to let go of expectations that the person sharing your table is going to do anything your way.
From what I’ve read, there is a minimum set of rules and those things that have been cited as “disgusting” are largely universally frowned upon. I don’t see expecting someone to eat neatly, not make a huge racket and not inconvenience other people as expecting a whole lot.
For example, I also think the “toddler fist-hold” on the fork is ridiculous and rude. Here’s why: when you hold your fork that way, it scrapes really loudly against the plate. To me and most people I know, that sounds like nails on a chalkboard. It’s really, really unpleasant, looks extremely uncomfortable and, as demonstrated earlier, makes you much more likely to hit the person next to you. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to avoid all those things or expect others to do so as well.
On placing the silverware “correctly:” people tend to use their fork with their left hand when they’re cutting meat. It makes sense that the fork be on the left-hand side of the plate and the knife on the right. Same with the spoon - most people use the spoon with the right hand. So it should be over there.
Waiting for everyone to sit down and be served before eating: waiting makes it more likely that everyone finishes their food at the same time instead of having one person just sitting there, waiting for everyone else to finish.
Elbows off the table: many tables are close quarters. If you have your elbows on the table, you’re more likely to strike someone inadvertently or something else on the table.
I don’t see where these rules are either a hardship or stupid. Most of them were created for fairly practical reasons. Yes, some of the rules (tilting the bowl away from you for cream soup; toward you for broth) are probably not necessary for daily living. But many rules of etiquette, especially those at table, appear to be created to conform with what’s convenient for everyone or to enhance the flavor of what you’re consuming and to facilitate the flow of a meal and conversation. They’re not exactly a hardship to execute, so I don’t understand why people take issue with them.
IME, Americans who don’t switch hands with their fork after cutting usually do so because they’re shoveling, and shoveling is gross.
A lot of it also has to do with politeness, consideration, and enjoying a meal with others as a social activity. All society really is, when you get right down to it, is a collection of arbitrary rules that a given group of people agrees on.
I think you’re also taking a lot of these rules way too seriously. Very few, if any, people in this thread have put up *ultimatums *about how other people *must *eat–they’re just reporting the rules they themselves are familiar with and prefer. Would I ideally like everyone I eat with to have the same table manners as me, at least in a formal setting? Hell yes. Am I going to put up with a wide range of variation from friends, boyfriends, and family? *Also *hell yes.
The way we do it now is more relaxed than it was when we were kids.
-We say a short grace at the start of the meal (sometimes people will nibble off their plates beforehand, but try not to eat during the actual grace).
-We eat when we get food. There’s no set starting point to the actual eating (I usually wait until I get all foods that I want on my plate).
-We’re mindful of portions if the food is limited (this only happens at our typical family dinner, when there’s guests we usually make more than enough food for all and folks take what they want), but if there’s plenty left over and you want seconds, have at it. If it’s the last portion, we usually say something like “anyone else want this, 'cuz if not, I’m gonna eat it.”
-Napkins on laps, preferably, though we’re not strict about this.
-We pass everything around at the beginning of the meal, unless it’s something that just came out of the oven and is thus too hot to pass. Then whoever made it usually serves everyone. Just try to make sure that a dish of something doesn’t get stuck at your place, otherwise we’ll tease you.
-We might tease you about elbows on the table, too, but we don’t actually care that much.
-Don’t talk with your mouth full/chew with your mouth open, etc. That’s probably the only real “rule,” and we just all sort of follow it because it makes sense and doesn’t gross folks out.
-Take what you want, don’t take what you don’t want. I get teased for not taking bell peppers, but that’s not about to make me want to take them.
-If you want something, ask for it, don’t just reach across the table. Also, it makes the most sense if you address the person closest to whatever it is you want (so if it’s next to my dad I’d say “hey dad, could you please pass the [food item]?”) so that others don’t have to drop what they’re doing and search for it. That’s just for practicality’s sake more than anything else.
That’s all I can think of off the top of my head. The rules are stricter, I think, when there’s kids around because they’re just learning and you want them to be consistent, but for the most part we’re pretty laid back.
See, this is where I depart. I would say the correct answer should be:
Would I ideally like everyone I eat with to have the same table manners as me, at least in a formal setting? I don’t care. I don’t notice whether they have the same table manners as me, because my attention is focused on interacting with them as human beings rather than scrutinizing their table manners.
We just have different opinions on rudeness. I’m sure you’d be annoyed if they were constantly interrupting you while you were trying to talk, for example, or if someone showed up to dinner wearing a shirt with graphic pornography on it.
Wait. I’m mostly left handed (i write with my left hand) and thus hold the fork in my left hand and cut with my right hand. I have no need to switch.
Never have I shoveled.
Oh, and if I’m at a decent restaurant and see a guy wearing a baseball hat I just assume he’s embarrassed to have anyone see his plugs.
Only if it depicted the penis being held in the right hand during fellatio, when etiquette demands that the penis always be held in the left hand, freeing the right hand for prostate massage and for passing the port counterclockwise around the table.
As others have said, IMHO the majority of the “rules” posted here aren’t meant to facilitate social interaction, but to make certain people feel special.
I couldn’t help but notice the absurdity of these two statements. How would my deviation from the rules governing roll buttering procedure make me unsocial and disgusting? On the face of it, it would seem far more ‘disgusting’ to repeatedly mangle a piece of bread with your bare hands and attempt to butter the small morsel than to butter the whole piece and eat at your leisure. Then again, I don’t pay much attention to how other people eat.
I’m not hugely anal about table manners and yet I do this. I figured out after a while it was because I was insanely right-handed, to the point of not being entirely sure that i could stab and bring said food to my mouth with the left hand. 
I mean, I can, but it’s just that much more comfortable to use my right hand for everything. I’d prefer steaks came pre-cut anyway. Plus, it also slows down your eating time, as someone else said, you are enjoying the steak longer.
The only thing I ask for in table manners these days is
Be polite to the other guests. So, don’t show them food in your mouth, don’t jab them with your elbows, don’t spit stuff up unless very very discreetly, be aware of what conversation is appropriate at the table (no guts or blood), don’t double-dip in sauces, don’t grab communal things with your hands unless you know the family is OK with you doing it (like, they are all doing it themselves).
This threw me off, though:
Do not cut into or bite pieces off of bread or rolls
Break off a bite-sized piece of roll or bread, butter it, then eat that piece
Don’t those two totally contradict? Cutting is not OK, but breaking it off is?
-Says Anaamika, who does indeed butter the entire roll at once. YUM! And then I usually fold it back so the butter is encased in the bread and melts better.
Well, the “need” to switch, by my rules, is between dominant and non-dominant hands. So if you were my kid, I’d have taught you to cut with the knife in your left hand and fork in your right, and then set down the knife and move the fork to your left to eat.
Good for you if you don’t set your knife down between cutting and eating and still keep yourself to a reasonable pace; the people I, personally, have known to do this don’t.
Oh shit. It appears that over the years I have horribly insulted a number of men. How terribly gauche of me.
I think this really speaks to the attitude that I always seem to encounter when people speak out against table manners and other forms of etiquette. The problem, IME, seems to be not that people know the rules and decide not to follow them, but that they were *never taught *the rules, don’t know what they are, and are then *embarassed *by that fact. So instead of just learning, they get all huffy and sour-grapesy and insist that of course these rules are *stupid *and anyone who follows them is stupid, all to cover up their own insecurities.
I’ll grant you that the hands-vs-knife is fairly arbitraty. However, (a) repeatedly dipping your personal knife into communal butter is gross, and (b) breaking off and buttering one piece of bread/roll at a time forces you to slow down versus just jamming the whole thing into your mouth at once, as well as preventing you from getting buttery fingers by breaking off a piece from something that’s already covered in butter.
Them’s the rules. No one said they had to make sense. 
You may also wish to learn that the “appropriate” method to eat asparagus is with one’s fingers.
Yep, this is exactly how we do it. Guess I’ll move to Canada.
I don’t think that’s it.
I think most people were raised with most of these rules, but they realized that the rules are in fact - stupid.
My dominanat had is my right hand so I keep the knife there. I can only imagine using a fork in my left hand though, just like I can’t imagine writing with my right hand.
So grabbing with both hands is a faux pas?
Oh, I know…but I still eat it with a fork. Why? Despite my Indian upbringing I actually don’t like eating things with my fingers and hate the idea of getting my fingers dirty. When I do eat Indian food, I wipe my hands on a napkin every couple of bites. I’d generally just prefer to eat everything with a fork or chopsticks.