The 18th amendment banning the manufacture, sale, or transportation of alcohol was ratified in 1919. The 19th amendment granting women the right to vote was ratified in 1920.
“The Woman’s Crusade of 1873-74 was a culmination across the United States of many years of women taking direct action against the saloon and the liquor traffic. Women in the United States then enjoyed no direct political power, and direct action–prayer vigils, petition campaigns, demonstrations, hymn-singing–were among the few means at their disposal for seeking change.”
So the women’s temperance movement got the ball rolling before they had the vote. But as women had little direct political power, you have to blame the men for supporting and passing it, don’t you?
Enderw23, I think about the only thing we all agree on is that the whole site is a pile of meaningless drivel.
Gr8Kat, that operationUSA does look like the guy who wrote it is serious. “Stop by to read articles that are viciously anti-communist, anti-feminist, anti-socialist, anti-fundamentalist, anti-multicultural, anti-egalitarian, and anti-politically correct.”
The difference with the manifesto is that the manifesto is totally incoherent. What is wrong with the manifesto is not that it defends this or that point of view but that it is a pile of incoherent drivel. It would be the same pile of crap if it defended women’s right to vote.
The difference with other sites is just that other sites state points of view with which you can agree or disagree, but the manifesto is full of meaningless crap with which you cannot agree even if you wanted.
That Trish Wilson probably is an expert on this but if it has cost her three years I would say yes, it is a waste of time. Heck, I’ve only given this a few hours and I can confidently say they were wasted.
I would take the nuts of OperationUSA, the nuts of the extreme feminists and put them all together on a small Island, Survivor style, so the rest of us could live in peace and watch them on TV.
I have had a look at some of the stuff by Trish Wilson and as a reliable source I have lost quite a lot of confidence in her. She seems to belong to the the extremist group at the other side of the spectrum and so in an exchange of diatribes between the two sides I am not going to attempt to make any sense.
To me the people at NOW and other extreme feminist groups make as little sense as the male groups we are talking about. There are too many crazy people out there but I do not think we need to be concerned that women’s right to vote is going to be restricted any time soon. If anyone is making an issue of that they are fighting ghosts and trying to scare people into taking the extreme opposite view.
At any rate, this thread has allowed me to learn two new words which may come in handy once I learn their precise meanings and usage: fuckwad and fuckslut.
Could you kindly enlighten me as to what makes NOW “extreme”? What of their stated policies or things they advocate do you actually disagree with? (And, please, NOT your perception of what they advocate…but what they actually do advocate.)
All right, the OP specifically cited one of the Father’s Manifesto’s “Repeal the 19th Amendment” pages, but that’s hardly the only issue the site/pages is concerned with. Basically, the whole thing is slanderous to women. It criticizes our abilities to do math, operate a car, make informed decisions on political issues, and raise our children without murdering them. It’s horribly, horribly insulting and it’s NOT A JOKE.
Poo-poo them as extremist numbnut chuckleheads if you like, but they have support. All I want is to make otherwise complacent people aware of the movements against their rights before some “Family Values”-type politician takes these extremists’ statistics seriously and gives them the validation they’re seeking.
Which question? The question of whether the site is joking? That’s been answered: They’re serious, if disorganized.
The question of whether they have the support of any politicians and/or are a threat to women’s rights? Cecil may be of service there. I don’t feel like running up my phone bill calling those out-of-state phone numbers to see if anyone answers the phone (though I did send them an e-mail earlier today basically asking that question). I’m sure Cecil has a bigger research budget and could maybe get Li’l Ed to do the legwork.
As pointed out, The Father’s Manifesto folks themselves are disorganized, but they have supporters. Family Values is always a good “buzz phrase,” especially for right wing extremists (I wonder if Pat Buchanan has visited these sites), we have a Republican Congress right, and George Dubya is (this is just an estimate) giving Al Gore a run for his money. I think people at least need to be aware of what’s being said.
I would be curiously to find out what kind of statistics Cecil could dig up, and if he could find anything about the background of Mr. Knight, if he’s really the deadbeat jailbird dad that Trish Wilson has made him out to be.
That was from August 1997; I know Newt is no longer speaker of the house, I’m just trying to illustrate that the issues represented by the Father’s Manifesto are near and dear to the hearts of some politicians.
Ok, given the evidence supplied by Gr8Kat I am going to concede that it looks like the fathers manifesto was not conceived as a joke. I have trouble saying it is “serious” for reasons that should be obvious. I guess I was naive in thinking nobody could be that stupid.
It seems that site is an incoherent rant that has been used by other groups. In that regard and with respect to myself I consider the matter settled by recognizing this.
A whole other thread would be whether these people represent a threat to anybody (I don’t think so, they are just too far out there).
Regarding some other, less extreme, male organizations I have discovered from your posts, while I may not agree with them, I do not see them as dangerous either. I see them as the symmetrical equivalent of similar female organizations. I disagree with both of them, not only in their analyses but also in their confrontational attitudes which (IMHO) just create more confrontation from the other extreme. But, as I say, that would be an entirely different thread.
I concede the point we were discussing, although I am still amazed that there can be idiots of that caliber in the world. As someone pointed out, there are people who will believe in the cloning of Jesus. In spite of all the evidence that there are many idiots in the world, I still try to think people have a minimum of intelligence.
Having conceded the point I will now try to catch up with the other threads I had pretty much abandoned. Thanks again to Gr8Kat for the information.
I for one am happy to let this die - I’m sick of both the manifesto itself, and having to argue with people like sailor. So, to him, I make an offering of peace, and suggest we all move on.
“That’s good, that’s good. You’ve taken your first step into a larger world.” - Obi-Wan to Luke Skywalker in Star Wars after his first light-saber lesson.
That was me. (Just trying to keep the record straight.)
“In spite of everything, I still believe that people are good at heart.” –Anne Frank
One last thing, and then this will probably be the last post I make here: That recording I mentioned gave this address: www.efax.com. On their sign-up page, it says this:
And that is no doubt why many of those numbers have incorrect area codes. And by using eFax, they can hide their tracks and make it difficult for the FBI or courts to find the guy in charge (who is a dead-beat dad, right?)
I sincerely hope that you can distinguish between the news blurb you posted and the “Father’s Manifesto”. The two are not comparable in intent at all. Maybe the use of the word “father” confused you?
How do you equate the importance of having a complete family with removing a woman’s right to vote?
Besides, maybe you missed the part that says “Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA) joined Minority Leader Dick Gephardt (D-MO) and Representatives Joseph Pitts (R-PA), Jim Rogan (R-CA), Mike McIntyre (D-TX) and Jim Turner (D-TX)”.