Tawana Brawley: 15 Yr. Old Rape-Hoaxer to Pay Heavily for Slander

[TriPolar]

First, the grand jury probably did not find she was raped, I was incorrect in stating that as a fact. If you read the wiki Shodan linked to you will see that they did find the motive was to avoid a beating from her step-father, and that she was probably coached by her mother in her words.

This case is presented by most people as if Tawana Brawley woke up one day and decided to ruin the life of some random guy. It did not happen that way. There are many ways in which the details are unclear because there are numerous stories people have told, few of them credible. She never says much about the subject except to repeat a script provided to her years ago, and her family and anyone else would have factual information aren’t talking either.

She was not tortured and raped by the prosecutor or the police to my knowledge, and I’m surprised anybody ever believed that was the case. She was a 15 year girl that was a mess, involved in drugs, with a terrible family situation. There is no doubt her words were coerced by others for their own motives, her only clear motive was to avoid a beating for not going home after school. There was plenty of evidence that this was not just a slap upside the head, she feared severe violence, had experienced it already, and she was probably on her way to a life on the streets if this incident didn’t occur.

There is no doubt the words she said were false, and she knew it. As Nemo stated, initially her claims were taken seriously, leading to a number of investigations, which in some cases turned up actual corruption in the government, but that likely had nothing to do with her. But somehow she got the names of people to use in her false claim, and no reason to believe she found those names herself. Someone else’s agenda was being used as part of this fiasco. After the evidence that her claims were false came forward the state did turn against her. There was a tremendous amount of animosity by local government because the investigations had turned up actual corruption and affected people’s lives. I was in close contact with government officials and politicians in Duchess, Putnam, and Westchester counties who were openly discussing the impact of these investigations, people were scared about what may have been uncovered, and relieved when her claim was disproven. After that there was backlash against the political supporters who had come to her side, and herself. Of course some innocent people were harmed in all this nonsense, but attributing that harm to Tawana Brawley is insane. She was a puppet manipulated by others, that was readily apparent to anyone looking.

If you want to consider that this a case of a girl who lied and was sued because someone felt harmed by those lives, then go ahead. I see a case of a girl in a desperate situation, being abused by everyone around her. I have no doubt she believed that New York state was going to prosecutor her for something if she recanted, and that she was frightened of others who were controlling her life, and that is why she did not recant or fight the charges against her. It seems ridiculous to me that anyone can look at the conglomeration of family, friends, polliticians, and state officials involved in this case and determine that she was the primary actor here, and that she should bear the burden of the aftermath. What she did wrong was go to party after school and take drugs, do who knows what else at that party, and from that point on her life was in the control of others, others who paid no personal price for their misdeeds.

I’m done with this. Think of me what you will, I don’t give a rat’s ass.

[Condescending_Robot]

@PastTense

She is in the news because the prosecuting attorney is finally collecting on a slander judgment against her. She now owes a total of about $431,492 for statements she made when she was 15 years old.
Pay-up time for Brawley: ’87 rape-hoaxer finally shells out for slander

Just to be clear, Pagones did not prosecute Brawley or her alleged rapists for anything, and the slander judgment did not involve any interaction between the two in court; that would certainly be out of the norm. Pagones was a prosecutor in the county where the affair took place, and also one of the people Brawley falsely accused of raping her; the two facts are unrelated (beyond the fact that people with some amount of local fame were picked as the targets of the scam).

[Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup]

@TriPolar

There is no doubt the words she said were false, and she knew it. As Nemo stated, initially her claims were taken seriously, leading to a number of investigations, which in some cases turned up actual corruption in the government, but that likely had nothing to do with her. But somehow she got the names of people to use in her false claim, and no reason to believe she found those names herself. Someone else’s agenda was being used as part of this fiasco. After the evidence that her claims were false came forward the state did turn against her. There was a tremendous amount of animosity by local government because the investigations had turned up actual corruption and affected people’s lives. I was in close contact with government officials and politicians in Duchess, Putnam, and Westchester counties who were openly discussing the impact of these investigations, people were scared about what may have been uncovered, and relieved when her claim was disproven. After that there was backlash against the political supporters who had come to her side, and herself. Of course some innocent people were harmed in all this nonsense, but attributing that harm to Tawana Brawley is insane. She was a puppet manipulated by others, that was readily apparent to anyone looking.

If you want to consider that this a case of a girl who lied and was sued because someone felt harmed by those lives, then go ahead. I see a case of a girl in a desperate situation, being abused by everyone around her. I have no doubt she believed that New York state was going to prosecutor her for something if she recanted, and that she was frightened of others who were controlling her life, and that is why she did not recant or fight the charges against her. It seems ridiculous to me that anyone can look at the conglomeration of family, friends, polliticians, and state officials involved in this case and determine that she was the primary actor here, and that she should bear the burden of the aftermath. What she did wrong was go to party after school and take drugs, do who knows what else at that party, and from that point on her life was in the control of others, others who paid no personal price for their misdeeds.

I’m done with this. Think of me what you will, I don’t give a rat’s ass.

Because no matter what kind of beating you might have initially been trying to avoid, and no matter how slick the person imposing his own agenda to validate your attempt to escape being caught in the lie you crafted to avoid said beating, you don’t get to make statements that you KNOW to be false, about people you’ve never met, that might wind up ruining THEIR lives, without having to pay the price.

It doesn’t matter how sad Brawley’s backstory was. It didn’t give her the right to become the central figure in the destruction of others, nor did it give her the right to be the means of that destruction, much less an active participant therein.

[Bricker]

@TriPolar

If you want to consider that this a case of a girl who lied and was sued because someone felt harmed by those lives, then go ahead. I see a case of a girl in a desperate situation, being abused by everyone around her. I have no doubt she believed that New York state was going to prosecutor her for something if she recanted, and that she was frightened of others who were controlling her life, and that is why she did not recant or fight the charges against her. It seems ridiculous to me that anyone can look at the conglomeration of family, friends, polliticians, and state officials involved in this case and determine that she was the primary actor here, and that she should bear the burden of the aftermath. What she did wrong was go to party after school and take drugs, do who knows what else at that party, and from that point on her life was in the control of others, others who paid no personal price for their misdeeds.

I’m done with this. Think of me what you will, I don’t give a rat’s ass.

So why doesn’t she recant now?

And what government corruption was uncovered?

[Unauthorized_Cinnamon]

@TriPolar

First, the grand jury probably did not find she was raped, I was incorrect in stating that as a fact.

This is an admirable statement - it makes you look much better than trying to weasel out would.

. . . It seems ridiculous to me that anyone can look at the conglomeration of family, friends, polliticians, and state officials involved in this case and determine that she was the primary actor here, and that she should bear the burden of the aftermath. What she did wrong was go to party after school and take drugs, do who knows what else at that party, and from that point on her life was in the control of others, others who paid no personal price for their misdeeds. . . .

It is ridiculous, because that’s not what happened. Several people who made public statements accusing an innocent person of rape were sued and had to pay judgments. Who even knows - if she had fought her case, she might not have been found responsible. But if you don’t show up, you lose, end of story. Even if you had a sad childhood and your motivations at the time are somewhat understandable.

Anyway, want to hear a weird trivia fact? In 1987 I lived 30 miles from Wappinger’s Falls. In 2006, I lived 30 miles from Duke University.

[Little_Nemo]

@Unauthorized_Cinnamon

This is an admirable statement - it makes you look much better than trying to weasel out would.

Is this a whoosh? Because I think TriPolar did nothing but try to weasel in his post.

First, the grand jury probably did not find she was raped…she was probably coached by her mother in her words…There are many ways in which the details are unclear because there are numerous stories people have told, few of them credible…She was not tortured and raped by the prosecutor or the police to my knowledge…somehow she got the names of people to use in her false claim, and no reason to believe she found those names herself…After the evidence that her claims were false came forward…Of course some innocent people were harmed in all this nonsense…If you want to consider that this a case of a girl who lied and was sued because someone felt harmed by those lives…others who paid no personal price for their misdeeds.

What I’m getting from this is that TriPolar thinks Tawana Brawley was a victim of something. What exactly?

TriPolar also seems to think there was a government cover-up of something. Again, what does he think is being covered up?

Does TriPolar think Brawley actually was kidnapped and raped?

Finally, TriPolar dismisses the seriousness of being falsely accused of rape. Being accused of rape is not “nonsense” and people don’t just “feel harmed” by it. People’s lives are destroyed by false accusations like this.

[Colibri]

@Unauthorized_Cinnamon

This is an admirable statement - it makes you look much better than trying to weasel out would.

The inclusion of “probably” in the statement is itself a weasel word.

[BigT]

@Little_Nemo

Is this a whoosh? Because I think TriPolar did nothing but try to weasel in his post.

What I’m getting from this is that TriPolar thinks Tawana Brawley was a victim of something. What exactly?

TriPolar also seems to think there was a government cover-up of something. Again, what does he think is being covered up?

Does TriPolar think Brawley actually was kidnapped and raped?

Finally, TriPolar dismisses the seriousness of being falsely accused of rape. Being accused of rape is not “nonsense” and people don’t just “feel harmed” by it. People’s lives are destroyed by false accusations like this.

His point is really fucking simple. He doesn’t think she is culpable for what happened. He thinks that, because she was a child and was trying to escape abuse, she wasn’t responsible for her actions. He thinks it is her friends and the government’s fault because she should have never been a position where those actions should become necessary. The fact that she was abused and had to do something like this to deal with it means that the system failed her. And thus she has no obligation to help that system out in this case.

He also believes she was not helped in dealing with the case after the fact. If so, why would she even begin to think running away and hiding would help? He believes that the system should have defended her anyways, making the same case he is making that it really wasn’t her fault. But they didn’t.

It’s really not that complicated to sit down and try to understand someone if you don’t assume that, because they disagree with you vehemently, it must mean they are stupid. Or that, because something is stupid, you don’t have to bother trying to understand it. Heck, if you don’t understand it, you can’t tell if it’s stupid.

And because you guys are dogging on him so much, I’m going to take up the mantle a bit. Yes, her initial reaction hurt the guy really badly. But if we assume as TriPolar does that this was not her fault due to her age, then what grounds do we have to be mad at her for not apologizing? Her lack of apology is not hurting anyone but herself. No one thinks it means that the guy really did rape her.

So if her actions as an adult haven’t hurt anyone, and, you believe, as TriPolar does, that her actions as a scared child shouldn’t matter, what reason is left to be mad at her? The only thing her lack of apology is doing is making it harder for people to forgive her. She is the one who suffers.

And why shouldn’t we feel sorry for someone who thinks that’s the better choice?

[Bricker]

@Colibri

The inclusion of “probably” in the statement is itself a weasel word.

Correct. The grand jury’s findings are not a matter of conjecture. They wrote them down. What the grand jury found is a question of verifiable fact.

The grand jury definitely did NOT find Brawley had been raped.

No “probably,” about it.

[Bricker]

@BigT

So if her actions as an adult haven’t hurt anyone, and, you believe, as TriPolar does, that her actions as a scared child shouldn’t matter, what reason is left to be mad at her? The only thing her lack of apology is doing is making it harder for people to forgive her. She is the one who suffers.

And why shouldn’t we feel sorry for someone who thinks that’s the better choice?

Yes, I suppose that’s certainly something to pity.

But your argument does not address her payment of the damages she owes to Pagones. I asked TriPolar earlier what system he proposed to replace the current one that assigns civil liability to children over fourteen for their acts of willful misconduct, and he declined to answer. So if it’s true that he believes her actions “as a scared child” shouldn’t matter, then what system ought to judge the question instead of ours?

[Czarcasm]

@Bricker

Yes, I suppose that’s certainly something to pity.

But your argument does not address her payment of the damages she owes to Pagones. I asked TriPolar earlier what system he proposed to replace the current one that assigns civil liability to children over fourteen for their acts of willful misconduct, and he declined to answer. So if it’s true that he believes her actions “as a scared child” shouldn’t matter, then what system ought to judge the question instead of ours?

Also, BigT’s argument did not address the main reason for all the ire-Tripolar’s constant misstatements about the case.

[Unauthorized_Cinnamon]

@Little_Nemo

Is this a whoosh? Because I think TriPolar did nothing but try to weasel in his post.

Not so much a whoosh as a combination of bourbon (and attendant diminution in reading comprehension) and a misplaced remnant of faith in humanity. :o

[Anaamika]

@Bricker

So why doesn’t she recant now?

And what government corruption was uncovered?

If she recanted now, if she screamed from the hilltops that she was wrong and she was sorry, and abused or whatever, would she still be on the hook for this?

(I mean, I agree with the majority here - she should be held responsible, and she should recant. But I wonder what would happen if she did, and showed herself to be genuinely sorry for her lies.)

[Bricker]

@Anaamika

If she recanted now, if she screamed from the hilltops that she was wrong and she was sorry, and abused or whatever, would she still be on the hook for this?

Legally yes – except that Pagones has indicated in the past that he’d be willing to drop the issue if she apologized and admitted the lie. So as a general principle, a person who’s lost a suit can’t then erase that loss by apologizing, it appears that in this particular case, she can.

[Little_Nemo]

@BigT

So if her actions as an adult haven’t hurt anyone, and, you believe, as TriPolar does, that her actions as a scared child shouldn’t matter, what reason is left to be mad at her?

I’m willing to forgive a child for acting immaturely. But Tawana Brawley is no longer a child. She’s now 41 years old. She should acknowledge she did something wrong when she was young and apologize now that she’s an adult.

[Anaamika]

@Bricker

Legally yes – except that Pagones has indicated in the past that he’d be willing to drop the issue if she apologized and admitted the lie. So as a general principle, a person who’s lost a suit can’t then erase that loss by apologizing, it appears that in this particular case, she can.

That’s very kind and noble of him. I didn’t realise she was 41, though. I don’t think he should drop the issue - as others have said, she is more than old enough to know better now.

ETA: Thank you for answering.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

She has no excuse these days not to apologize, but I suspect that if she does it will be a net loss for her. She still has idiots that fell for the pathetic lie and I am betting more than a few of those idiots give her money to make for what is garnished. If she were to admit to the lie she would make those folks angry and lose the one part of her infamy that she could actually enjoy.

[Slithy_Tove]

A few years later, the same people who’d chanted “Tawana told the truth!” also cheered at the OJ verdict. In their heart of hearts, many of them didn’t really believe her, and did believe OJ did murdered two people, but that was immaterial.

It wasn’t about belief in Tawana or OJ or Michael Jackson, but belief that the system was unjust and geared anti-Black, and it was worth it to see some pro-Black sand in those gears once in a while. It was always unfair, so what’s White America’s problem with these few cases?

[delphica]

@Little_Nemo

I lived and worked in the area of the Bradley case when it was going on.

Thanks for elaborating! I knew what your job was from previous threads, so I was assuming it had something to do with where you worked. I imagine that just about anyone with a badge in the area was a possible suspect.

[camille]

Why doesn’t she recant and apologize?

Maybe it has progressed from a lie of convenience, into a case of pseudologia fantastica, and she has come to believe it really happened.

I always thought something similar happened with OJ after the acquittal.

I can’t imagine living with a lie of that proportion and infamy without some kind of mental adjustment being necessary for the individual who perpetrated it.