Teenage guy, needs work on his rap

In My Humble Opinion
1

My son is a month short of his 18th b-day, and will be a HS senior this fall. He’s doing well in school, has some extracurricular interests, and a job. Pretty good looking and in decent shape. But one area in which he is woefully lacking is with the ladies. In short, he seems to have no clue in how to approach girls in a manner that will result in any kind of a dating/romantic relationship.

I’ve heard him try to strike up conversations. He often falls into either a kind of bragging mode, or he asks weird off-the-wall questions he misguidedly thinks will be “conversation starters.” And I think he lacks the ability to figure out which girls are approachable, available, or potentially interested in him.

Now, I was never a tremendous ladies’ man myself. And I respect his efforts. I never quite understood how my buddies were so successful with their lines of bullshit. So I kinda keep encouraging him to keep swinging away - sooner or later he’s gonna make contact. I figure it is better for him to learn what does and doesn’t work in the HS minor leagues, so he’ll be better prepared when he moves up to the majors in college and beyond.

But my wife and daughters have said that he needs to cool it, because he comes off as too aggressive and somewhat creepy.

This week he is away at a summer camp. And when he comes back he is starting some dance lessons. I figure both of these might provide opportunities for him at least to get practice being friendly with girls, and learning how to make a good first impression. The women of the house feel he needs to cool it and just see what develops. Having been a teenage guy who spent too many weekends home alone, I’m not too thrilled with the efficacy of that approach.

No, I’m not trying to get my kid laid. Just eager to have him develop basic social skills. And to the extent he might like a girlfriend or dating experience, I’d like to see him have some success in that area, the same way I wish him success and happiness in all areas of his life.

Any thoughts?

2

My initial advice is for him to “lose the line” if he really is doing that. Invariably, I’d get embarrassed if someone used one on me. Honest inquiries about a girl’s interests are definitely appreciated.

I know your kids are usually very busy with extracurricular activities. Are his interests conducive to meeting chicks? I’m thinking if he’s in rocket club, the odds are there’d only be a few women folk to chat with. Book clubs, in my opinion, are good ways to get to know people.

He should keep the phrase “But enough about me; let’s talk about you” at the tip of his tongue at all times. Draw the prospect into conversation.

3

Here is the basic problem. When you date within a small pool, and you get a reputation for creepiness, you are sunk with 90% of the women in that pool. Women share notes, in detail, and if someone has been too aggressive it gets around fast. Its too bad that an innocent error can lead to total social collapse, but that’s high school for you. In this sense your wife/daughter’s advice is spot on.
a)Chill – women smell desperation and are repelled by it
b)Find a new, uncontaminated source of females outside of high school.

That said, some guys just seem to have a “problem.” I have a friend in law school who is HAWT, gainfully employed, funny, smart, clean/groomed, physically fit, and a future lawyer. And he drives a blue Corvette. My friends and I spend hours discussing why he can’t get any play. And mocking him. And trying to think of sister/cousins/friends to introduce him to, because he’s basically a cool guy. Women flee from him though. Its a mystery.

As for your son, sounds like he needs more friends in general, as well as more female friends. Going out in groups has long been a preferred form of low intensity proto-dating. High School-aged women may be understandably nervous/worried about going out alone with a guy they don’t know very well.

4

This is a very interesting question and I am sure your son would appreciate any advice you could give him. I am sure it is awkward at that age to try to connect with a member of the opposite sex.

My son is starting his second year of college and has had girlfriends since he was a freshman in high school. Although I love him to death, he isn’t what you would call a ladies man. He has no athletic ability, has worn glasses since he was 6 and is a tad overweight. These girls are smart and beautiful. As a matter of fact, when he ended a two year relationship two months ago, he started dating two other young ladies within a week.

I once asked him how the heck he always seem to have a girlfriend when his buddies all appear to stay stag. He shrugged but when I pressed it seems like he is confident, has no trouble talking to them, befriending them and quite frankly, the kid is hysterically funny. He imagines he gets their attention in the classroom with his quick wit and quips and keeps it by his sincere interest in them as people. He starts the conversation by “Hi” and then turns the conversation into questions about them. Music, favorite classes, what they do on the weekends etc.

(I just asked him how he would go about meeting someone that he did not know and was not in any of his classes. He responded “Why would anyone want to do that to a total stranger?” So I guess if that is what you’re trying to teach, we can’t help.)

5

Camp should be good for this type of thing. Dancing lessons could go either way. For teenage boys, especially the nerdy ones, the secret seems ot be… treating girls as if they’re human and not some alien species or goal to be attained. Get a few close girl friends and one may make the leap to girl(nospace)friend. Sure, some will stay ‘just friends,’ but again, they are human, and some people don’t mind being friends with people who won’t touch their penis.

6

Ok, this is going to sound incredibly hokey and I can’t believe I’m going to say it. I’ve never actually read How to win friends and influence people, but I’ve always heard that it actually does have pretty good tips for getting along socially and making friends. Why not give it a shot?

7

Thanks all.

I was thinking about this some more. He can be very funny, but his humor can tend to the sarcastic, which I think turns off as many people as appreciate it. Also, when uncomfortable he appears “stiff” and unnatural. Instead of simply engaging in conversation, he can give the impression he is interrogating.
We’ve told him to just be natural, and be genuinely interested, but it doesn’t seem to have worked.

Another thing is, a couple of his main interests are science fiction and military history, which can sort of give off the ubernerd/Columbine whacko vibes.

Personally, I’ve never been terribly comfortable and popular with either girls or guys. I’ve often envied folks who are really socially comfortable, so I have little personal experience to share.

8

I think you’ve found the answer to your own question in his likes. Are there any local groups that he can fall into that jive with his likes?

9

He does military re-enactment, but that is primarily male. Or else he encounters the problem meeting girls outside of the 5 and 50 club. Seems he has no difficulty meeting and socializing with little girls and old ladies.

His main interest in school is theater. Last year he was in 2 of the school’s 3 plays. He is taking singing and dance lessons to improve his chance at a larger role in this fall’s musical. And after 3 years in band, he successfully auditioned to be in chorus this year. I’d think theater and chorus would have to be a couple of the best groups to meet girls. But he always says “All the girls already have boyfriends.” I remember as a teen the frustration of hearing all these girls I had crushes on tell me all about their jerky boyfriends. While I was being all understanding I kept wanting to scream, “Dump the loser and go out with ME!”

He does tend to be pretty uninterested in current popular culture - teen TV shows, movies, music, etc. But his mom and sisters do a good job of helping him buy a good wardrobe, have a decent hair style, practice good grooming/hygiene, etc.

The camp he is at is at a college and is for prospective Engineering students. 16 of the 40 attendees are girls. I figure he should have at least a decent chance against a bunch of prospective engineering nerds as anywhere else, as well as a chance of meeting girls who might share his interests.

I guess the main thing I’m wondering is, I have on occasion sorta seriously, sorta jokingly said, “Go on out there and flirt/meet some girls.” Tried to give him some advice on how and when to start conversations, and point out situations where he might be able to approach girls. Like yesterday - driving to the camp. I said everyone is in the same boat as you, not knowing anyone, and eager to meet and be friendly with folks. So just participate willingly in the social and other activities, don’t try to impress folks or brag about your test scores or anything, smile a lot, and express genuine interest in both the guys and girls you meet.

When I said something along those lines to my wife and daughters after I got back from dropping him off, they said something like “I wish you’d stop encouraging him, because he just turns girls off and gets a bad reputation.” But I fear that if someone doesn’t encourage him, he’ll end up either by himself in his room reading a book, or else hanging with the geekiest group of guys around swapping Star Trek, Firefly, BTVS, and Monty Python references.

10

The light at the end of the tunnel is that a lot of these girls ARE going to dump their jerky boyfriends when they go away to college. People mature. I know lots of people who didn’t ease into their “social skin” until college; some even later.

He’ll be in another arena and will pick up different cues when he goes away to school. I wouldn’t worry too much about him.

11

But a lot of those girls will move right along to another jerky boyfriend, or just a string of jerky boyfriends. Don’t get the kid’s hope up that people magically mature once they hit college. A good 90-95% of kids will still be incredibly immature, at least for the first year.

12

Dinsdale, though you yourself admit to having girl problems at his age, you clearly did land a wife eventually, so why not impart some knowledge that you know for a fact worked? Unless of course, you just happened to luck into a relationship. :stuck_out_tongue:

13

Well, he sounds like he has a lot more going for him socially that I did at his age, so I can’t give direct advice, but if what I read here is true, reputation is everything, and if you get a bad one, you’re basicaly sunk no matter what you do. There’s nothing to do but change social contexts.

(bolding mine) I wonder whether this is part of the problem. If you’re mocking him, even when you’re basically sympathetic, you’ve placed him on a lower level than you and set him outside the universe of ‘men worthy of hooking up with’.

Now this, the reported words of Dinsdale’s wife and daughters, I don’t understand. Using social skills consciously ‘turns girls off and gets [the lad] a bad reputation’? If true, then there is no solution to the problem for a misfit; either one makes no effort and continues as a misfit, or one tries to improve and is shunned.

I think that things improve after the age of twenty, though; university was much better for me socially than high school, in part, I’m sure, because it was a new start and I left my reputation behind. Perhaps the best thing about the social environment of high school is that it ends.

14

Actually, the maturing will come both on his part and the girls’ part. And it *might * not happen right away. But maybe it will. You’re surrounded by older, smarter, more mature people. Hopefully, some of it will rub off on them.

Plus, I think he’s a pretty smart kid judging by **Dinsdale’s ** praises. The smart ones are doing more studying rather than going on panty raids and kegger runs. Girls notice that stuff.

15

I was a hapless loser when it came to high school dating but managed to turn things around in college with a few beautiful, fun girlfriends (the last of whom became my wife).

Give him time and eventually he’ll meet that equally socially clueless girl and they’ll live awkwardly ever after.

16

What college did you go to? Because I certainly should have gone to that one.

17

The best opening line is “Hi. I’m Teenage Guy, I just got here, anything goin on?”

18

Reply to Sunspace (for some reason I couldn’t “quote” the whole thing.)

Well, making fun of my friends is part of who I am, and my friends all make fun of me too, for various and sundry mockable things about our personalities. For example, I often repeat the same stories and my friends are not above mocking me for it. I couldn’t be true friends long term with a person who couldn’t take a burn.

This particular guy, we made pals when I saw him in his 'Vette. The next day in class, I said to him, “Nice car. When you stop at a red light, do tramps climb on your hood and start stripping?”
He replied, “sometimes.”

A friendship was born.

FTR, I am a woman. I actually got my first BF in high school by swapping Monty Python lines. Ah, the memories.

19

I have been informed that these days, it is no longer called “throwing your rap” which was bad enough.
These days its called “spitting your game” Doesn’t that sound charming?

20

This sounds like great advice to me.

When I was in high school, it never occured to me that guys might be interested in dating me. I still thought of myself as a clumsy, four-eyed weirdo, even though I’d physically emerged from my ugly duckling phase by 9th grade. In retrospect, some of the guys I palled around with probably thought of me romantically, but they never made it obvious and I never guessed.

This is all a long way of saying–tell him to flat-out try asking girls out once he’s met them. Don’t bring them flowers, don’t call them obsessively, don’t try this on cute strangers, but saying something like, “Why don’t you and I get pizza and go see a movie?” might be a more successful strategy than he might think.