Well, that’s good then. It sounded like you had little to do with him, but were mocking him behind his back, thus ruining his reputation for people who met him for the first time.
But if, with all his advantages, he isn’t still connecting and wants to, maybe he has some subtler communications problems. Or a bad non-social reputation from elsewhere.
Or maybe he simply doesn’t really want to connect. Perhaps he already has an SO, but hasn’t mentioned it, or is looking elsewhere. I was interested in a girl at my first job; we got along great, but she turned out to be part of a religious community and simply wasn’t looking for someone outside that community.
Actually, this is about it. He reminds me of my older brother a little. My brother, the gainfully employed, educated, vegetarian, homeowner, BMW driving, accomplished cook, triathlete… also the only unattached heterosexual male in the entire SF Bay area. It was just a combination of being a bit shy and rather picky. Most people who know my brother wouldn’t guess he’s shy, but he can be around people he doesn’t know. My friend at school is kind of the same. “Normal” around people he’s met but unaccountably awkward when he first meets people.
This is another reason why its good to travel in herds for the purpose of mating… there is a more natural flow of “getting to know” someone.
Back to Dinsdale, Jr, does he have any female friends? I would take their input over that of mom and Dinsdette. If he has no female friends (not even tomboyish ones) this is a big red flag. He needs to figure out how to make female friends before he can get girlfriends.
Actually, I went to a community college and had a great social life (and got good grades, too…I know – it’s a gift). But I know plenty of people (my cousins’ sons in particular) who were brainiacs and have met nice girls, are competent conversationalists, and were extremely shy when they first got to college. In fact, one of them studied birds, fercrissakes, and he’s got a hip, cute, sweet, talented wife. Not everyone is a perpetual nerd.
For me, high school was far better socially than college. In high school I had a few social groups where I was tolerated/accepted, while in college I was always alone.
Sounds like I should move to the SF Bay area so there’ll be two unattached heterosexual males in the area…ruin the odds just a little bit more
It’s hard to diagnose these kinds of things without seeing someone in action. Some people give off a vibe that is hard to diagnose. But here’s a few thoughts.
I am suprised that theatre hasn’t opened more social doors for him, I was involved in theatre in high school and college and it was full of parties, people having flings, dating, and open friendly people in general. Maybe college will open up more social possibilities for him.
Does he have male and female friends? The best way to meet people is through friends you already have, I don’t mean setting them up in an official manner or blind date, just as a way to meet people by hanging out together. You don’t need “lines” if you are just in a group of people, some you know, some you don’t and you just ask questions you would ask anyone you wanted to talk to, male or female. What is your major, what classes do you take, don’t you hate this teacher, this party sucks, etc.
I would advise him just to try to make friends, not get a girlfriend. Girls can sense when a guy is just looking for a girlfriend, not interested in them specifically. Let things lead to more as they naturally progress. Most college age kids end up hooking up from a party, or a class, or a show or whatever, not because they walked up to a random person and gave them an opening line. Can he make new friends in general, even male ones? Or does he have trouble there too? Encourage him to make girl friends the same way he makes guy friends. That gives him more exposure to girls and lets hims relax around them.
Finally, if he knows or admires someone who is very good socially, it might help if he can try to pick up some cues by watching him. Not trying to imitate him word for word, just see how he approaches someone new, or flirts or whatever.
I think the easiest way to approach it, him still being young, is not to go out and look for a date. Don’t think of every girl as a potential date. Don’t even think about dating. Just chill and meet people. I hardly know anyone that dated someone they didn’t already know for awhile or at least met without other intentions. I honestly believe that saying “you only find someone when you’re not looking” thing is true because that’s how it’s worked with me and multiple times with my friends as well. If he just goes out to hang out with people and have a good time, eventually he’ll find a girl. Like Cal said in 40 Year Old Virgin, plant a lot of seeds. Go out and meet people. Just try to make friends instead of trying to find a girlfriend.
I think a lot of it is he’s not exactly easygoing, so when he approaches someone - guy or girl - he tends to act artficially in one way or another that tends to turn them off. Also, for the most part he’s pretty content with his own company. Spends hours and hours writing fiction and reading. Which is cool. But then when he wants to be Mr. Social Animal it is a 180 from where he is most naturally.
I also think he is not the best at interpreting social clues. Judging from a person’s expressions, mannerisms, etc, whether or not they are interested in him either as friends or more.
I agree that it is more important that he he friendly with a larger circle of folks of both genders and see what comes of that. From my HS and college experience, tho, I can tell you that few guys had more girls as close friends, but had fewer intimate girlfriends than yours truly. There is some mechanism I was never all that clear about, where you can fall into girls treating you as their buddy. Which can drive you nuts when you really want to get into their pants!
I think he’ll end up having a much better time as an adult than he is having as a kid.
Have him read Desmond Morris’s book titled The Naked Ape. It’s the secret codebook for understanding human female (and male) courtship cues, signals, and behaviors. Wish I had read it before I got married…
Other than that, suggest he think of girls as people / persons, not exotic and mysterious being of great allure. It changes your whole attitude.
I think that the best approach is to have no approach at all. The other sex be it female or male can sense desperation and there is nothing less attractive than desperation. A few things I’ve learned over time,
Be confident or fake it. This doesn’t mean to act cocky. Cocky is not the same as confident.
The other sex are people. They aren’t some mysterious species. Making conversation with a girl isn’t different from making conversation with guy friends.
Don’t be afraid to let a girl know you are interested. The nice guy approach doesn’t work.
I’ve thought for a long time that the best thing a young man can do, if he wants to meet young ladies, is to be handy with common household tools and have his own toolbox. If he can fix a computer, even better. Even if the girls think he’s a total dweeb, they’re still going to invite him into their rooms to fix their stuff. I know I did.
My ex-husband was heavily into military history and science fiction. I still liked him. So I hope that gives you some hope.
I was “that guy” in middle school and my first year or two of high school - when it came to girls, I’d turn completely into not me and end up being very off-putting. I had a hard time with the ladies. I was also really, really bad about putting girls on a pedestal as this exotic, alien, untouchable and unapproachable thing that I could barely even talk to, much less dream of going out with.
Everything changed when I just relaxed and treated them just like I’d treat a guy; talk about their interests, talk about our common interests, hang out, joke around. I made a lot of girl_friends and then some of them became girlfriends.
Tell him to completely drop any sort of “game,” “rap,” or “act” and just be himself and make some friends.
Just my honest two cents based on the OP-- back off a little from your son on this issue. It seems like it’s much more a concern of yours than it is of his. If you just help him be as good a person as he can be (as I’m sure you do) then eventually that will attract someone, if that’s what he wants.
Really the only way to get over this is just to get out more. It’s hard for shy kids or kids who like being solitary, but the way to get more social ability is to be socialized. The more he does it the easier it will get. The way you get good at reading people is by spending a lot of time with them.
Encourage him to start by talking to people he genuinely finds interesting. People like it when other people really want to hear what they have to say. Often guys will make small talk with a girl but you can tell they don’t care what you are saying at all, they just want “a girl”, generic. Also, if he is constantly worried about himself or how other people view him, then he is not really concentrating on that other person. It’s another form of self-centeredness. I don’t mean he is selfish, just that when people are so focused on themselves for any reason, whether because they are shy or whether they are selfish bastards, people pick up on the fact that they are not really interested in them. You have to be more focused on the other person than you are on yourself.
I agree. Let him be himself, and don’t feel the need to constantly give “advice.” If one is awkward at meeting people, it doesn’t get any easier if you’re constantly being advised how to meet people - it just puts more pressure on you to do the right thing. Assuming he enjoys his life, you aren’t in a position to judge (even as his parent), IMHO.
Honestly, it sounds like you are transferring your social awkwardness on to him. I would think it’s great to want your kids to have the opportunities you didn’t, but I don’t think it’s helpful to be concerned about your son dating the girls you would have wanted to date. If anything, that’s creepy.
Besides, the socially awkward high schoolers, who end up putting more time into their studies, or developing their talents/interests (i.e. engineering, theater) are the one’s who grow into interesting, successful adults (the kind who are a desirable catch). The others, who spend high school involved in all its cliques and social drama, often end up spending their adulthood reminiscing about “back in the day”. His life will only get better as time goes on, so feel free to let him progress at his own pace.
Honestly? I think you should back off and let him meet a nice girl in college or on his own-he’s clearly introverted. You can’t change that about him-I suspect the “creepiness” comes from the fact that he’s trying to be extroverted when he is naturally not so it sets off that artificial vibe. I was naturally introverted as an adolescent-I still am to a certain extent but I grew more personable as I aged. Hell, today you wouldn’t be able to tell that I’m introverted-I’ve been able to hide it well though by the end of a social outing I can be quite exhausted.
If you want him to have a better shot, pack him off to UIUC for engineering. Cute yet dorky white guy sitting in Grainger? Exotic in a sea of South Asian males. He’ll have every Asian honey sick and tired of irritating Indian dorks all over him.
By the way, there ARE girls out there who will share his interests in all those hobbies you worry are extra dorky. He might just be happiest with someone that will enjoy spending time with him on similar hobbies-in a smaller social setting it might be concentrated to guys but there are plenty of girls who are into science and sci-fi and whatnot and it’s very likely he’ll find them in college and/or grad school.
I would say you’re nice for trying to bring happiness into his life, but let him meet a nice girl whose interests coincide with his when the time is right for him. What are you scared of? All the “I’m a 75 year old virgin? Help!” threads on here? He’ll get there on his own time. Having sisters and a mom who keep him well-groomed will help a lot.
It was just a combination of being a bit shy and rather picky. Most people who know my brother wouldn’t guess he’s shy, but he can be around people he doesn’t know. My friend at school is kind of the same. “Normal” around people he’s met but unaccountably awkward when he first meets people.