Just do it. You’ll feel so much better.
He will come to you to make amends. Or he won’t.
You’ll still feel so much better. Really.
Hire a hit-man?
Avarie537, we’re talking about this guy, right? I say shove a bottle of percoset down his throat and toss him in a pool.
The Indiana code states that grandparents may seek visitation rights under these circumstances:
IC 31-17-5-1
Right to seek visitation
Sec. 1. (a) A child’s grandparent may seek visitation rights if:
(1) the child’s parent is deceased;
(2) the marriage of the child’s parents has been dissolved in Indiana; or
(3) subject to subsection (b), the child was born out of wedlock.
(b) A court may not grant visitation rights to a paternal grandparent of a child who is born out of wedlock under subsection (a)(3) if the child’s father has not established paternity in relation to the child.
As added by P.L.1-1997, SEC.9.
None of those apply here.
It’s a little looser in my state, but now you know it’s one less thing to worry about in your situation. Good luck.
Who turns out to be a police officer or informant, and then the grandparent gets custody while the OP is in jail.
Yeah, that’ll work.
Same guy! He made noises about grandparents’ rights over this one, too.
I’ll do my best to multi-quote here …
I have a therapist, and she’s great. I’ve been seeing her on and off for about three years now. Probably time to go for another visit soon. My dad’s been to therapists many times over the years - with my mom, with my older brother, and with the family as whole. I never noticed a difference, but it’s been at least 15 years, so I was really young for most of it.
I see my mom a lot - at least twice a week. Thankfully, she would never try to “reunite” me with my dad. She knows what I’m going through, since she had a similiar experience throughout their entire marriage.
fluiddruid, thanks. That’s exactly the sort of thing I’m thinking of - especially the insistence on family therapy. The big difference between our situations is that I do have happy childhood memories, and we have had times where we genuinely enjoyed each others’ company. But as I get older, those instances are becoming fewer and further between, and I’m not sure that they are enough to outweigh all the crap.
The Second Stone, the yelling at my son is just the surface of the issue. It’s really about the fact that he thinks he knows better, and insists that our young child be held to a ridiculous standard of behavior if we are in his house, and should I raise my voice at him, how DARE I disrespect him in his own home??? The “other stuff” isn’t odd at all - it’s a long history of dismissive, condescending, narcissitic behavior that I didn’t really want to go into fully.
I can’t even say that I’m angry anymore. I’m just over it all. We’ve been exchanging emails for a week now, and I really can’t see that there will ever be a resolution. I’m going to call my therapist and see if she can get me in next Wednesday to talk this over.
Thanks for all of your thoughs, experiences, ideas and support. You guys are great.
When I moved out at 18 I was perfectly willing to write my parents off completely. And they knew it too. My Father was very distraught by this. My step-Mother is the same sort of person as your Father, who doesn’t take responsibility for ANYTHING. Everyone else in the family went to counseling and got on some kind of anti-depressant except her. Meanwhile, if it had been ONLY her, the house would have been harmonious and everything more or less fine. My Father had lost his first wife, my Mother, and she would threaten to leave him if he didn’t do her bidding. So he kowtowed to this to a large degree rather than keep his wife in line. I feel like had he taken a stronger hand with her, things would’ve been simpler and better. By the fact that I didn’t really call or talk to them very often for quite a while, she became more docile around me. And I’ve made an effort not to be around her much. She’s calmed down, and the fact that she fought constantly with my sister after I left showed her that there was a lowest common denominator there. She doesn’t cop to it, but I think she knows it.
Basically you have to be willing to make a split for real. I mean for really real. Make peace with the fact that you may or may not see your Father ever again. If you do go to visit stay with other relatives or in a hotel. Let him know that you’ll walk right out on a moment’s notice if he starts acting the fool. Make sure he has to deal with the consequences. Don’t reason with him. Reasoning with a narcissist is interpreted as a negotiation. Just let him know you are ready to cut him loose if he doesn’t change his ways. He might not care, he might hold a grudge and he might blame you. In which case you walk away and be comfortable with the decision you’ve made.
The letter (and I do recommend doing this in writing rather than in person, which will just invite more confrontation) isn’t for the father; it is for Avarie537 to be able to justify to herself that she’s done everything necessary and reasonable to deal with the situation and has taken the last civil measure to terminate the relationship in a mature, responsible fashion; in other words, closure. Just not returning phone calls, et cetera invites more questions, perhaps not even unreasonable ones as to the unilateral decision to terminate the relationship; sending a letter allows the o.p. to merely refer back to it (“Everything I have to say is in the letter, and I no longer wish to speak to you,”) and close off any further communication.
Of course the father won’t get it, especially if he is pathologically narcissistic, nor is he likely to seek effective help for a personality disorder, or frankly, receive effective therapy for such a disorder. It will, however, dismiss any doubts in Avarie537 that there is anything more she should do, and again, give her a means to politely escape any contact by simply referring back to the letter. It also provides a measure of documentation should the situation come to the point of restraining orders or legal action; having unambiguously stated her intentions allows the o.p. to justify asking for such protections should the situation degenerate to that point.
Stranger
One thing to potentially consider is whether your children in the future may want to have a relationship with their grandfather. I agree at this age (toddler) you should know best, but I would guess that as they get older, they will want to know more about their living relatives. See my story here: Reconnecting with family members - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board
I will also recommend that if you decide to do this, that you write a letter to your father and not do this in person. It will help you to better organize your thoughts and will be less emotional for you while also providing the closure you need.
I often took intense heat from my parents for not allowing them to mess with my kid’s heads! Just protect them! It doesn’t matter what happens to you in the process (I mention this because it is SO freeing to see it this way…well, it was for me). In the event that he sues for visitation (he seems like the type that might) then go after him with everything you’ve got in order to stipulate that the visits be supervised. In almost all jurisdictions it would then be HIS responsibility to hire a professional supervisor and you would get to vet them. I’ve been through something similar when I took custody of my son from his rather troubled mother. Everything turned out really well. By being fair but utterly ruthless I sent the message that I could not be messed with and after several years the mother found her way, got off drugs, and is doing really well. Bottom line: get away from him, don’t allow guilt to poison your mind. Just do it. Don’t think about the cruelty of it, for he will feel pain. Don’t own that. Just get it done. It’s all about the kid. If he has a breakthrough and quits being a dick you can always reconsider. You should journalize everything in case of a legal struggle. If you don’t have times and dates and notes you will lose in court.
This whole clusterfuck has had an interesting twist. After a few more calm and collected emails, it seems as though he is not receptive to the idea of me setting “terms” and/or boundaries as to what is acceptable behavior towards me and my family. So now I’m being the unreasonable one, and - basically - until I say “sure, dish out whatever crap you want to and we’ll smile and say thanks” HE doesn’t want to talk to ME anymore! I almost laughed when I read that. I’m just thinking “Seriously?? Is that all it takes to get you out of my hair? Sweet!”
I’m still going to see my therapist on Tuesday and talk it over with her, because even if we’re not talking (for now), there’s still a lot of crap in my head about all of thisl.
Good luck with him actually following through on the “not talking to you” part for three seconds longer than it takes him to figure out that you aren’t going to beg him for forgiveness… but until then, congratulations 
My best friend has an 80-something mother who is a textbook case of narcissism. Friend exists solely to wait upon, visit, phone, and drive around Mom (though there are several older wealthy brothers who Mom never ‘wants to bother’). Mom was the kind who would pull the “you’re killing me with your bad behavior, I’m going to have a heart attack”. Mom calls Friend three times a day complaining about this or that, or demanding a ride here or there, or just informs Friend what a rotton thoughtless daughter she is. So friend of course goes far out of her way to accommodate Mom, brimming over with resentment and fury at the shabby treatment, because that’s the way things are, and have always been, and will always be. And because Mom is old and can’t get around much any more, there is always always always Guilt Guilt Guilt. (you’d never know Mom could be such a mean old game-playing bitch, she’s as sweet as pie to the outside world, poor old lady!)…I bring this up because I get weekly updates on the situation. Fights. Hanging up the phone. Telling anyone who will listen “I’ve had it! I’m done! I’m finished being pushed around! I’m not ever talking to her again!” The next day - “oh, Boyfriend and I are going to Mom’s for dinner tonight and we’re all going out of town to brother’s birthday party next week.” So what happened to the “I’m done” part??? I guess there is no ‘done’. This cycle repeats itself over and over. It reminds me of on the Carol Burnett Show, where Ed, Eunice, and Momma would be at each other’s throats to the point of murder, and then there would be a silence, and then one of them would say, “let’s go get some KFC tonight” and everything would be back to normal! Like riding on a roller coaster, lots of angst and screaming and then it’s all over…
UNFORTUNATELY, I mis-interpreted his email. Damn! Yes, it’s still all my fault that this has dragged on for over a week and dug up crap from when HE was in high school (which was completely irrelevant to the topics at hand!). I mean, we could have just sat down and talked, so long as I just accepted that he never MEANT to do anything wrong and he’s just so SORRY that I took it that way.
Gonna see my therapist on Wednesday … I may not respond anymore until then.