Wasn’t sure whether to start a new thread or resurrect a zombie so apologies either way. Spoilers ahoy, just in case.
Anyway, just finished watching the second (and last) serious yesterday and I was wondering if anyone had any theories on where the story was going after the rather intruiging last episode?
I did suspect towards the end of the series that Catherine Reaver and by extension John Henry were on the side of the angels as a pro-human anti-skynet, though if John Connor sent the T-1000 back with that mission did he realise just how ruthless she would be going about it or what exactly is the set-up behind that aspect of the series? Is the T-1000 Catherine Weaver the same one shown on the submarine? Who was ‘Will you join us?’ referring to, at first I thought it was Skynet itself or Skynets troops, perhaps a rogue faction of Terminators (thats the problem with sentient learning AI’s, perhaps they’ll learn in directions and make decisions you don’t want them to!)
Why did John Henry send himself to the future, why did Cameron willing let him have her chip (to get it repaired with future tech?) and how exactly did he build a time-machine in the basement, for that matter wasn’t it specified in that very episode that he is tied by software and hardware to that specific setup? The plot, it thickens.
As for the series itself despite some weak episodes, silly Hollywoodisms and occassionally sloppy writing/production I have to say I enjoyed it. I actually thought it was at its best in its more thoughtful subtler moments such as the Catherine/Savanna Weaver, John Henry and Agent Ellis weird family dynamics and when they showed that although she might look and act it Cameron and other Terminators really aren’t human.
The details have become murky to me, but I do remember being severely disappointed when the show was cancelled. The second season was really interesting toward the end.
I always figured Catherine Weaver (both in her “present” appearence, and the “Will you join us ?” future one) was supposed to be a third side to the war : machines initially given a modicum of sentience by SkyNet to improve their performances which, it turns out, wound up with a little too much and turned against it. Basically SkyNet’s SkyNet. Who says a machine can’t learn things machines weren’t meant to know ?
It’s also possible John Henry sent himself to the future so he could “teach” (or reprogram) a few Terminators to not utterly loathe humanity and seek their own paths, thereby creating Catherine Weaver because timey-wimey balls are what the Terminator series was about
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But does that mean Camerons program has been overwritten or is it/she saved somewhere?
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It’s possible he saved a copy, and of course we know there are other Camerons in the future, but I think we were meant to assume that “our” Cameron died, sacrificing herself to help John Henry.
Yeah, though it seemed that series 3 was to be mostly set in the post-apocalyptic future which was generally my least favourite part of the series. Though I did like the episode on the submarine with the cyborg Captain Queeg, again that was quite well done, humans taking orders from an AI and feeling empathy towards a machine (it was obvious that despite her anti-metal attitude Jess likes and respects him) and said AI’s inability to understand human social dynamics when the stress and secrecy started to get to them. But again it had a silly Hollywoodism “OMG if the sub is 1 inch below crush depth we’re all doomed!”, uh no, not necessarily you’re not.
Also to add I thought the death of Derek Reese was very well done (though he sort-of got better), took me a second to comprehend that yes, they really had killed him off like that)*, in a quick draw with a machine the human is going to lose every time and said machine isn’t even going to blink afterwards.
Edited and typing quickly to avoid timeout window!
Yes, both those ideas sound plausible, its also clear that as the Terminators become more advanced Skynet itself has less control over them. Bit of a paradox for it.
Ah OK, poor Cameron. I did like how they introduced the human version that Cameron was based on in the future setting, with her hugging a dog to show she was human.
My take was not that the ‘third side’ was ‘Skynet’s Skynet’, but that they were from a different alternate future, one where the AI and humans got along. Possibly, there were many alternate future people and/or machines coexisting in this one current timeline. Once they went back in time from ‘their’ future and made changes, they had no way to get back, so their future is gone, but they are still here.
Of course, the show also had the typical problems of bad writing and/or bad story planning. There were things in the first season that got dropped or didn’t fit (damned if I can remember them anymore), and evidence that the writiers were just making it up as they went along.
With a story arc planned from the beginning, it could have been an awesome show. Of course, that’s also true of Lost, BG, Almost Human, etc…
One slightly annoying issue for fans, if somewhat understandable in context, is that the showrunner absolutely refuses to discuss what he had planned for the later seasons. He claims there was a plan, but will apparently take its secrets to the grave. I find that frustrating and slightly silly, but what are you gonna do.
I found it surprisingly well-made little show. I hadn’t expected much and was part of the problem as I only watched it after it had been cancelled. But I lament its passing now, as I really did want to see where it was going.
My own pet theory, which has little to do with anything, was that future Cameron was in fact running the rebellion. Nobody saw John Connor anymore and everything ran through her - I think he had died in the future and she was covering it up. Which was why she came back and refused to explain everything/anything to him. She was trying to guide him into a future where he didn’t die.
The showrunner did confirm that she actually loves him whether she is consciously aware of it or not, which isn’t surprising. Skynet obviously hates and a sophisticated enough AI should have no problems with emotions ( we see John Henry being protective of his “little sister” ). I think the machine against machine rebellion may have started with Skynet destroying any of its little bots that became sophisticated enough to develop an ego and self-awareness like itself. Eventually a few got themselves free and became the the third faction John was eager to ally with ( and Cameron may have been a part of ).
Both those theories sound good! I did wonder why we never saw ‘Future John’ although I imagine it would be pretty hard to cover up his death, though it would also explain why Cameron refused/was unable to let Jessie speak to him. Would have been interesting to see what happened to her btw, she was an intruiging character.
I recall a lot of discussions about what season 3 would have been like. From a production stand point it seems unlikely to take place in a future robot war. The costs alone were prohibitive. Also the focus of the show was 1990’s America with Sarah raising her son John. Some how I think the show runner was going to get John back home with Sarah for season 3. Cameron (in some version) would be back too. AFAIK they hadn’t fired Summer Glau.
Since it got cancelled then we’re free to imagine any thing we want. I think John has to return back to Sarah. He still has to experience destruction day and organize the survivors. Unless we want to believe John Henrys mission is successful and destruction day never happens.
The time loop thing from the first film also looks like it occurs in TSCC with Cameron and John. John Connor falls in love with Cameron as a teenager. When he grows up he falls in love with Allison from Palmdale, a member of the resistance. But along the way Allison is abducted by Skynet, killed, and replaced by an infiltrator that looks exactly like her. Cameron, disguised as Allison somehow infiltrates the resistance, gets close to John, and possibly kills him. How she is reprogrammed and by who is the only thing missing.
I thought he said that Cameron DOESN’T love John, doesn’t have feelings. That it’s more interesting that way, instead of going with the android-with-a-heart that’s so prevalent in SF shows.
I really hated how the last episode ended. I don’t like the idea of terminators forming a third faction or being good. the “will you join us” was very interesting, but John Henry being a force for good was not, IMO.
Also, the resistance forming without John Connor is also an idea that I do not like whatsoever. It robs the story of the JC allegory. Smashing the power grid is just as important as John Connor teaching humankind how to “fight back and send those metal mother fuckers back to junk.” If the resistance is started without him, then it lessens his importance. Maybe it’s not so important that he survives.
I thought that Savannah was going to be killed indirectly by the human characters, and this is what sets off John Henry, the future Skynet, to view all of humanity as incapable of coexisting with each other, and decides they have no future.
