Thanks, Mom, for turning me agnostic.

So I went to see the March of Penguins with my mother and grandmother.

Now, Grandmother’s been very concerned about my family’s “spiritual health” ever since I came out of the Genesis Closet & declared I was an unapologetic evolutionist, and furthermore, I believed anyone who still believed in literal creationism was quite uneducated in the sciences. Note that she’s been concerned about “my family”, not only me. She hasn’t figured out that I don’t speak for my parents, and she’s been showering my parents in AiG & ICR videos and books. That I do feel guilty about, because my parents are YECs, they just don’t believe anymore that you’re going to hell if you’re not an evolutionist.

(Bear with me. This does have relevance. Really.)

Anyway… after the movie (which was, btw, the only “wow, that was GOOD” movie I’ve seen since Return of the King… damn Hollywood), my mother commented that Grandma made a point of making statements along the line of “wow, isn’t God wondrous” with that movie, and she felt that Grandma was trying to impress on her that the penguins couldn’t possibly have evolved on their own.

Anyone who’s familiar with creationist theology knows that one of the biggest reasons why YECs are, well, YECs is that they believe that physical death entered the world with sin. So I responded sarcastically: “Yeah, God designed them to be really efficient killing machines.”

Mom didn’t get it, never having been too involved in YECism–she never partook any of Grandma’s propaganda literature–so I explained, “The main reason why creationists believe evolution is heretic is because they believe physical death didn’t happen until the fall. Plus the whole world was very warm and tropical back then. These penguins are not designed to eat plants, they’re designed to kill fish and to live in extremely harsh climates.”

She saw the YEC logic (such a contradiction in terms, “honest politican” now sounds almost plausible) and then said, “Maybe after the Flood, God designed them to eat meat, just like he told Noah to eat meat.”

I said, “So God took away the ability to eat vegetables too? Mom, these penguins were never vegetarians.”

“The Bible says his ways are not our ways. We can’t comprehend how he thinks blahblah elided

“So, you’re basically saying that our observations contradict with the Bible and the world makes no sense at all.” Note: Paraphasing

At this point she got the deer-in-headlights look. A bit too forcefully, she said, “Well, look forward to how much we’ll find out when we get to heaven! It’ll all make sense then!”

At this point, my “you’re beating a dead horse” alarm began pegging and I give up and I say, “…yeah, you’re right…”

Fuck you Mom, you’re smarter than that. The whole Godworksinmysteriouswaysisn’thewonderful is for stuff like “why did Fido run away” or “why did God kill 200,000 people in that Boxing Day tidal wave”? Mom, you work 50 hours a week, you’re the most professional, hard-working, take no-nonsense woman I’ve known. You’ve never been judgmental that I know of, and everyone loves you because you’ve never had a thought for yourself, you always think of everyone’s problems and you truly care for your employees and family. You exemplified the ideal Christian, in my mind. Yet… in that short conversation, you’ve basically admitted that you’ve never critically thought about Christianity. If you’ve not found what it means to be a Christian, Mom, no one has.

Over the last year, two things changed me greatly: first, that I eschewed European/Buchananist economics (there, I’ve offended everyone!) & became an anarcho-capitalist, wherein I not only accept the reality of foreign competition but I now welcome it, which I feel has put me giant leaps ahead of many programmers who refuse to accept that their cheese’s moved (or however that analogy goes–been a long time since I read that book). The other change is that I came to conclude there’s no Abba in the sky, period. “Abba” as in “Daddy in the Sky” who is actively involved in my life. Now, that in itself does not make the New Testament invalid… it simply invalidates a good many Christians’ view of God. However, Mom’s commentary and the sad conclusion I drew from it has me concluding that, no, God does not exist after all. First thing I’m doing when I arrive in my new city is to remove that Jesus fish from my car. They’re becoming too much of a political statement anyway.

Sigh…

When you can’t get it off, Grandma will say it’s God’s will, but I believe there are a couple of threads in the GQ archives addressing the issue. :smiley:

Thanks for the tip! Hey, this is hilarious!

I have this image of two penguins standing around, one of them holding a beak, saying, “where the fuck does this bit go, Dave?”

You don’t love God and all of His specially designed creations? How can you not love the cute and furry rabbit, who must eat its own shit to survive? How can you not love the beautiful orchid, which is a sex doll for bees? Or the lovely coulerpa taxifolia, which survives by choking all other life out of the oceans? It’s God’s mysterious ways. You’ll see when you get to Heaven!

Oh, no!

Nobody understands me since I went off to college and embraced anarchism, atheism, and veganism, rejecting the Eurpoean-white-male and unneccearily Grecocentric philosophy that has been limiting the people for centuries!

Now… I’m FREE!!! And all you trapped drones just don’t get it!!! You’re sheep! Free your MINDS, people!!!

I wrote a poem about just this negative reaction in my journal. Let me finish my clove cigarette so I can go down to the coffeehouse and read it.

It is… to rolleyes.
Sure, your mother has an idiotic view of the natural order.
Sure, your grandmother is actively working to spread such idiocy.
But if those ridiculous arguments FOR God are what made you “agnostic,” then be prepared to part with copious amounts of money (once you re-embrace capitalism, oh, around graduation time) as every sophist with a home-demonstration model fleeces the hell out of you.
Go to class. There you will learn many things, chief among which is how not to let the ramblings of others unduly influence you.

Actually, you can start right now :).

Daniel

What’s your point, HSHP?

I think HSPS is just saying that a few people who don’t look at scientific truths don’t make Christianity invalid, and that a slick, up-to-the-minute presentation doesn’t make something else right.

Actually, from your description, it sounds like she does know. Ultimately, evolution or its lack is entirely irrelevant to Christianity, as is pretty much all human knowledge.

Og works in mysterious ways.

Then Og SMASH!!!

Happy Scrappy Hero Pupgrin I like you, and I’m not being sarcastic either. Gotta love anyone who’s not afraid to kick my ass, even if it’s a kneejerk reaction because they didn’t read my statements closely enough, and particularly not on capitalism. :smiley:

I’m thinking you could cut Mom a little slack. Maybe she has been too busy raising you to do a whole lot of extra critical thinking on the side.

Good points being raised here, and I’ll cede my mom needs slack. Will respond tonight.

No shit. If she routinely works 50 hours a week and busts her ass to support her family, and still manages to be an “exemplary,” non-judgemental Christian, maybe you can forgive her for not being as knowledgable of the natural world as someone who is currently attending college?

And I don’t see anything wrong with saying “God works in mysterious ways”. Even if you accept the current state-of-the-art in science over a literal reading of the bible, there will always be things you don’t understand. If your transcendental God is the foundation of reality, then something somethings that’s a mystery to you, then it is indeed God working in a mysterious way.

Post #13 didn’t exist when I clicked the reply button–strike the first paragraph of post #14

dre2xl, I’m not making any specific statements about you in my opener- perhaps I should have surrounded it with fake VBulletin tags like [freshman girl on Thanksgiving break] opener [/freshman girl on Thanksgiving break].
All I’m saying is, that if your opinion on the infinite is that easily influenced by the ramblings of one YEC who you know has bigger fish to fry (like working and raising kids), then perhaps you ought to examine the musings of some very intelligent people whose entire purpose was contemplation of the divine.

And LHoD, pointing out the elephant in the room (or in the last line of a post) doesn’t make you funny, it exposes you as the guy who wants other people to think he’s funny.

I bow to the master of humor.

Daniel

While you’re down there, tie my shoes.

[sub]not TOGETHER, damn you![/sub]

That would have been much funnier if you had put the multi-line pause between “While you are down there” and “tie my shoes”.

Okay… Responding when I’m not supposed to (last week on job, anyway)… I should make clear that I got the BS 3 years ago and I was out of state till February, and I am not living at home, and I’ve worked full time the last 3 years. If my language indicates teenage level thinking, that is NOT a good sign. Yikes.