We were thinking that, after a certain point, ANYBODY we vote out is going to be someone genuinely important and brilliant in his/her field. That’s the nature of a winnowing process like this.
VERY few people on this list WEREN’T people of great consequence!
I: Louis Dagurre
L: George Washington
P: Nicoli Machiavelli
R: Martin Luther
S: Louis Pasteur
First time voter, but here’s my reasoning:
Daguerre: while revolutionary at the time, I think he’s been eclipsed and that method of photography will be lost to history. It’s kind of like saying the person who invented the sled did as much for human history as the person who invented the wheel: similar, yet the later invention was far superior.
Washington: personally, I feel he gets too much credit (yes, I’m American.) He did some great things for the country, but really, the real genius of Team Founding Fathers was Jefferson. It’s not like he united the warring tribes and created the US single handedly.
Machiavelli: Another overrated person for a fairly bland bunch of ideas. “The Prince” is nothing compared to “Leadership Secrets of Ghengis Khan,” and it loses it’s relevance in a democratic society.
Martin Luther: Again, overrated. He wasn’t the first to point out problems with the Catholic Church, and what happened later was inevitable even if Luther never lived.
Pasteur: I don’t think he invented germ theory, nor discovered germs. GJ making milk safer to drink though.
Inventors. Joseph Lister
Leaders. Queen Elizabeth I
Philosophy. Francis Bacon
Religion. St Augustine
Science. Nicolas Copernicus
While I’d have waited a few more rounds to bump Maxwell off, I’m far more perturbed by the impending dismissal of Galileo. The argument that can be used against him (that others were on the verge of the same discoveries) can also be applied against Darwin. In fact the great importance of Galileo and Darwin derives from their influential writings.
Great scientists from the earliest Age of Science are of necessity more influential than 20th-century scientists. There were many other scientists who might have played the roles of Rutherford or Fermi had those greats never lived, but it was the very paucity of 17th-century scientists which might make Galileo and Kepler irreplaceable.
I don’t claim to be expert on the history of science. That’s why I listen to expert scientists. At the very begining of Wiki article we find a quote by Stephen Hawking:
and there is much similar praise for Galileo. (As for 19th-century Maxwell, others were on the verge of the same discoveries. And note that the elegant Maxwell’s Equations were actually written down by Oliver Heaviside.)
That’s really no excuse for eliminating people who clearly should be finalists before people who probably didn’t even belong in the Top 100.
I really wish JohnT had deleted the highly misleading summaries long ago. While Pasteur did develop pasteurization, develop germ theory and explain fermentation, perhaps none of these rank among his two greatest advances: discovery of stereochemistry and developing the first artificial vaccines.
Septimus, I would be surprised 1 person in a hundred equates Pasteur with stereochemistry. I’m not an idiot (nor am I a scientist) and your post is the first time I ever heard the word.
So I disagree with the notion that the summaries are highly misleading, especially if they touch on what the person is most influential for.
Are you defining “influential” in terms of popular familiarity? I’m not too proud to admit I wiki’ed some of the less-familiar names on the list. (Though not Louis Pasteur.)
From wikipedia:
I stand by my claim that the poor six-word synapses have grossly misled some of the players here.
Inventor. Joseph Lister
Leader. Cyrus the Great
Philosophy. Lao Tzu
Religion. St. Augustine
Science. Ernest Rutherford
Only Cyrus and Lao Tzu are holdovers this round.
Inventions. Louis Dagurre
Leaders. Queen Elizabeth I
Philosophy and Arts. Nicoli Machiavelli
Religions. St Augustine
Sciences. John Dalton
And Tom: I had to let Beethoven go but if you vote out Shakespeare who not only wrote some of the most enduring and univerally translatable plays in history but also added more words and phrases to the English language than anyone else,I will come around to your house and bite you on the kneecaps. Which would still less cruel that the boy band thing.
But this whole thing is subjective. You’re defending Galileo at the same time as dismissing Lister, Queen Elizabeth I, Francis Bacon, St. Augustine, Copernicus. Each one of those people could be argued as having lasting impact upon the world today.
Seeing how this begins with the whole of human endeavor reduced to 100 people,
it seems clear that “favorites” are going to get the boot and others are going to stick around longer --due to oversight or the chances of whim.
Don’t take it personally, there’s nothing logical about this at all. It’s all fun and games.
I went and looked at his Wiki entry after posting this and my original reasoning holds true: he wasn’t the first, but he developed other people’s ideas.
When comparing the discoverer vs the developer, I always give more credit to the discoverer, because they are usually fighting against “established” science at the time. The 2nd person is the one who usually gets the acclaim but doesn’t take the same risks of proposing a totally new and possibly controversial idea.
Galileo is a good case in point. On one hand, you can say he was one of a group of scientists/philosophers who discovered heliocentrism. His willingness to stand by his theory in the face of death adds a level of integrity and bravery to his story that someone like Pasteur didn’t need to do.
“Influential,” to me, doesn’t mean “being smart enough to figure out which ideas are worth examining.” It means changing the status quo, battling ignorance, and risking professional and personal sanctions in the process. In other words, I try to include the social, political and scientific issues of the time in judging their accomplishments.
ps. Where’s Sun Tzu?
For those who may be interested, I’m making another attempt at a Most Evil People Poll.
Inventions. Louis Dagurre
Leaders. George Washington
Philosophy. Nicoli Machiavelli
Religion. St Augustine
Sciences. Nicolas Copernicus
Well as a first ballot I’ll keep my mouth shut and decorously wait for the round to end before spouting off about injustices.
Not included in the original list.
In the face of death?
You are aware that Galileo was not executed, aren’t you? The punishment he received was loose house arrest, and he died of old age.
Round 9 is over!
The losers are:
Category, Name, # of Votes
S, Galileo Galilei, 4
I, Louis Dagurre, 7
P, Nicoli Machiavelli, 6
L, Queen Elizabeth I, 4
R, St Augustine, 7
Queen Elizabeth lost in a tie-breaker to Cyrus the Great. The big shocker is Galileo, #12 on the original list.
Remaining entries are:
Invention
Alexander Fleming, Scientist, Invented Penicillin
Antony van Leeuwenhoek, Scientist, Inventor of Microscope
Edward Jenner, Scientist, Developed Vaccination for Smallpox
Gugilemo Marconi, Scientist, Invented Radio
Henry Ford, American Industrialist, Developed Mass Production Techniques
James Watt, British Scientist, Invented Steam Engine
Johann Gutenberg, Scientist, Inventor of Printing Press
Joseph Lister, Scientist, Developed Antiseptic Methods
Nikolaus August Otto, Scientist, Developed Internal Combustion Engine
Thomas Edison, American Scientist, 1,000+ inventions
Ts’ai Lun, Scientist, Inventor of Paper
Leaders
Adolf Hitler, German Dictator, Started World War II
Alexander the Great, Macedonian Ruler, Formed Macedonian Empire
Augustus Caesar, Roman Princep, Founded Roman Empire
Cyrus the Great, Persian Emperor, Founded Persian Emperor
Genghis Khan, Mongol Ruler, Founded Mongol Empire
George Washington, American Statesman and General, Fought For Independence of United States
Josef Stalin, Dictator of USSR, Expanded Communism
Julius Caesar, Roman General, Ended Roman Civil Wars
Lenin, Russian Leader, Founded Communism in Russia
Mao Zedong, Chinese Dictator, Established Communism in China
Napoleon Bonaparte, French Emperor, Waged Napoleonic Wars
Sui Wen Ti, Chinese Emperor, Reunited China
William the Conquerer, Norman Duke and English King, Led In Norman Conquest of England
Philosophy
Adam Smith, Economist, Advocated Capitalism
Aristotle, Greek Philosopher
Confucius, Chinese Philosopher, Founder of Confucianism
Francis Bacon, Philosopher, Developed Scientific Method
John Locke, British Philosopher, Developed Democratic Ideas
Karl Marx, Economist, Founder of Communism
Lao Tzu, Chinese Philosopher, Founded Taoism
Michelangelo, Artist, Sculptor
Plato, Greek Philosopher, Developed Platonism
Thomas Jefferson, American Statesman, Wrote Declaration of Independence, Louisiana Purchase
William Shakespeare, English Playwright
Religion
‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, Muslim Caliph, Expanded the Caliphate
Buddha, Founder of Buddhism
Constantine the Great, Roman Emperor, Tolerated and Promoted Christianity in Rome
Jesus Christ, Founder of Christianity
Martin Luther, Theologian, Started Protestantism and Reformation
Mohammed, Founder of Islam
Moses, Jewish Prophet
St Paul, Christian Missionary and Apostle
Science
Albert Einstein, Scientist, Physicist, Theory of Relativity
Charles Darwin, British Scientist, Theory of Evolution
Enrico Fermi, Scientist, Developed Atomic Bomb
Ernest Rutherford, Scientist, Developed Subatomic Physics
Euclid, Greek Mathematician
Isaac Newton, British Scientist, Theory of Universal Gravitation and Motion
Johannes Kepler, Scientist, Developed Theories of Planetary Motion
John Dalton, Scientist, Atomic Theory
Louis Pasteur, Scientist, Pasteurization, Germ Theory of Disease
Max Planck, Scientist, Developed Therodynamics
Michael Faraday, British Scientist, Discovered Electromagnetism
Nicolas Copernicus, Scientist, Theory of Heliocentricity
Of course, I realized I forgot to vote in round 9. I also posted the results prior to this realization, so c’est la vie.
My round 10 votes are:
Inventors. Nikolaus August Otto
Leaders. Mao Zedong
Philosophy. Lao Tzu
Religion. Constantine
Science. John Dalton
Inventions. Louis Dagurre
Leaders. Adolf Hitler
Philosophy and Arts. Michelangelo
Religion. 'Umar ibn al-Khattab
Science. Nicolas Copernicus
Wow, I’m sorry to see Elizabeth go. She literally defined an era in Western culture, and is the person most responsible for the eccesiastical compromise known as Anglicanism. Sorry Liz!
I’m also somewhat astonished that Augustine was ousted before Luther, when Luther himself was heavily influenced by Augustine. C’mon people! That makes no sense!
Invention. Henry Ford
Leaders. Josef Stalin
Philosophy. Lao Tzu
Religion. Martin Luther
Science. Louis Pasteur
Other than the Religion category, I’m somewhat flailing here. I’m pretty confident about Ford and can defend Stalin but for the others, I’ll probably regret my votes in five minutes.
Wowsers, three scalps in Rnd 9.
Inventions. Nikolaus August Otto
Leader. Adolf Hitler
Philosophy. Michelangelo
Religion. Moses
Science. John Dalton
Rationale (though as a Galileocide, claiming reason may be incongruous)
Otto, a bit like the Wrights he got his patent in first. His design was materially better than his near competitors
Whatever Hitler founded, it had the shortest life of the remaining leaders.
Michelangelo, it’s an odious simplification but for most people is his influence more than a marble statue and some interior decorating?
Moses because … well I’ve voted for him in the past 5 rounds and nobody has advanced any reason to change
Dalton, only on the limp premise that his theory has been more modified than the others.
Dagurre is already Dagonne.
Invention. Nikolaus August Otto
Leaders. Adolf Hitler
Philosophy. Michelangelo
Religion. ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab
Science. John Dalton