The 2016 Republican candidates

[iiandyiiii]

@adaher

I admire you for that. Some Dopers seem to think they shouldn’t stray off message. It was really amazing how on board the liberal Doper community was with the Democratic messaging in 2014, until the day after, when were told how idiotic it was. I lost a little faith in humanity because of that. Ignorance not fought, hope diminished.

Bullshit. The Dope was highly critical of Democratic messaging in the 2014 election campaign.

I agree with your logic. The ENTIRE country could be haters. Heck, there are whole countries made up mostly of haters(Saudi Arabia). The problem I have with labelling the mainstream right as haters is because distinctions must be made. There are groups that pursue their agenda through violence. There are other groups that work through the political system. The latter are not a threat to anyone. The Family Research Council, should they fail to stop gay marriage, will move on to other things. The Klan hasn’t yet given up on segregation and occasionally, mainly due to membership limitations, has used intimidation and violence to enforce their views. HUGE difference. Putting them all under one designation seems ridiculous. When the definition of a phrase such as “hate group” becomes that all-encompassing, it ceases to have any real meaning.

The SPLC criticizes groups that make hateful statements (among other things). Are you seriously suggesting that it’s wrong to point out hateful statements, and it’s wrong to criticize them? You’ll notice that they have several different categories, and groups like the KKK fall into quite different ones than the FRC.

Boo-hoo. The SPLC accurately points out hateful statements and criticizes them. If you don’t like that, then maybe you should try and get those groups to stop saying hateful stuff.

[adaher]

Then the SPLC should designate the NFL, Grey’s Anatomy, and both political parties as hate groups.

[CGav8r]

Write to them with your suggestion, and keep us informed.

[adaher]

Why bother? They don’t matter as much as they used to because of their choices. In their attempt to marginalize their political opponents, they marginalized themselves instead.

[BobLibDem]

@adaher

Then the SPLC should designate the NFL, Grey’s Anatomy, and both political parties as hate groups.

Why the NFL? Because of the Washington Racial Slurs? I don’t watch Gray’s Anatomy so you’ll have to fill me in. BOTH parties? I guess just the one that tries to prevent minorities from voting, wants to continue to discriminate based on sexual preference, and endorses the insertion of the shaming wand into women seeking a legal medical procedure.

[adaher]

Democrats haven’t said hateful things? Sure they have. Lots of them. But in that case, the SPLC distinguishes between the official positions of the party and the dumb things their members say. They afforded the Tea Party Nation no such understanding.

[Fear_Itself]

@adaher

BTW, my cite for the TEa Party being supported by 45 million people is that 15% of Americans support the Tea Party in most polls.

Do you know the difference between the Tea Party and Tea Party Nation?

[iiandyiiii]

@adaher

Then the SPLC should designate the NFL, Grey’s Anatomy, and both political parties as hate groups.

Seriously? You make bullshit claims which are refuted, you make no effort to support your own arguments, you fucking make claims about me without a cite again, and this is what you got? Jesus.

@adaher

Democrats haven’t said hateful things? Sure they have. Lots of them. But in that case, the SPLC distinguishes between the official positions of the party and the dumb things their members say. They afforded the Tea Party Nation no such understanding.

The statements were from the founder of the Tea Party Nation and he did not retract them and the organization did not try to distance itself. That’s what the SPLC pointed out. There are no equivalent hateful statements by Democrats that were not retracted and/or refuted by the higher-ups in the party. You fail once more.

[Jonathan_Chance]

Time out!

2016 Presidential Candidates, gentlemen. Stay focused and take the tangent to another thread.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@adaher

There’s a huge difference between people in the group saying bad things and bad things being part of the group’s charter. The Klan puts hate in their charter. The Tea Party Nation espouses fairly mainstream values, but a couple of their members have said unfortunate things. The Klan has used violence to pursue its agenda. The Tea Party Nation works through the system.

@adaher

The problem I have with labelling the mainstream right as haters is because distinctions must be made. There are groups that pursue their agenda through violence. There are other groups that work through the political system. The latter are not a threat to anyone.

This is some of the dumbest bullshit you’ve ever written.

You conflate “mainstream” with “not hate”, even tho the two could clearly be the same (you cited Saudi Arabia as an entire nation of haters, for example, but surely in SA the views you label as “hateful” are in fact also “mainstream”).

You also seem to be arguing that as long as something is done thru legal channels, it cannot be hateful. By that logic, slavery was not hateful, nor were the actions of the Khmer Rouge or of racists in the southern US.

“Groups that work thru the political system are not a threat to anyone” is a ridiculous assertion and attitude to take, and a position that is easily refuted, as I did above. Just because something is done legally doesn’t make it okay or not hateful.

These are stupid, stupid arguments that do not stand up to any scrutiny.

ETA: My apologies to Mr. Chance. I did not see your note until I posted.

[elucidator]

@Jonathan_Chance

Time out!

2016 Presidential Candidates, gentlemen. Stay focused and take the tangent to another thread.

But he started it! Do we still all get Happy Meals?

[ElvisL1ves]

But we’ve already run out of serious, respectful things to say about any of them. It didn’t take long, either.

[adaher]

Isn’t this your first post?

[BrainGlutton]

@BobLibDem

He’s quite diplomatic and would decline to make that claim. I don’t have to be diplomatic and am free to call a spade a spade.

:smack: But you don’t have to, especially when Obama’s in the discussion! “African-American” will do, thank you!

[Quartz]

The front-runners - Bush, Walker, Christie, et al - all seem to have significant issues. I’d really like to hear more about the ladies I mentioned in my OP.

[adaher]

Ayotte and Haley are attractive candidates, except that Ayotte isn’t really ready and Haley isn’t planning to run. Haley could very well be President some day though. Depends on how well her second term as governor goes.

I’m interested in seeing how well Lindsey Graham does. That’s a guy who could be in the Huntsman role this time around.

[BrainGlutton]

@adaher

I was wrong. Tea Party Nation is a big part of the movement though, so when I saw that designation I reasonably inferred Tea Party=hate group. The Nation is not some fringe Tea Party organization.

But it is a hate group. If homophobia, Islamophobia, racism and Birtherism don’t qualify it, what would? See also its support for another hate group, the Oath Keepers.

[BrainGlutton]

@adaher

It was really amazing how on board the liberal Doper community was with the Democratic messaging in 2014 . . .

That ain’t how I remember it.

[iiandyiiii]

@BrainGlutton

That ain’t how I remember it.

Now now, we can’t expect adaher to remember everything*.

*Or anything, perhaps.

[BrainGlutton]

@adaher

The problem I have with labelling the mainstream right as haters is because distinctions must be made. There are groups that pursue their agenda through violence. There are other groups that work through the political system. The latter are not a threat to anyone.

But they can still be hate groups, can’t they? The Klan did not stop being one when David Duke tried to rebrand it as a kind of lobby.