The Anti-Woman

The BBQ Pit
1

This here is a flame just for Shirley Ujest and her ilk.

History:

I am a big fan of Shirley’s writing. She writes eloquently and humorously. I’ve expressed my admiration of her writing via posts at least twice and I sent her an e-mail (or was it an ICQ) about same.

I never received a reply to any of these. I noticed it, but really, there are so many people on the Internet and I know she has other fans. It was no big deal. I really wasn’t hurt. Before.

Now I’m hurt. See this thread: http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000471.html for the exact moment I was hurt.

I recognize her now. She’s another incarnation of the kind of woman my sister-in-law is… I like to call her the Anti-Woman.

For years, my sister-in-law and I did not get along… When my husband and I were dating I was pretty much obsessed with him. This made me seem like a dipshit to my sister-in-law. She thought I was stupid and a was annoyed by my “niceness”. Hey FUCK YOU! I was taught manners when I was very young and they’ve stuck with me. My conscience dictates that I do many things, as far as manners go, including (but definitely not limited to) the following:

  1. Make small talk with guests. Don’t sit in stony silence.
  2. Offer guests something to drink or eat.
  3. Talk with the guest about subjects which interest them.

My sister-in-law construed this behavior as “sucking up” and was annoyed by me doing it with any member of the family, not just her.

HELLO? How else am I going to get to know these people? Yes, I would like them to like me. But this IS me. Deal with it, Bitch!

Yes, I am happy most of the time. Why? Because I don’t see the point of belaboring the obvious, as in: Life sucks. NO SHIT! So why don’t you cry about it? What good does it do sit around thinking negative thoughts all the time? It sure hasn’t made you into the happiest of people. Do you feel fulfilled?

Shirley if we knew each other in real life, I’m sure I’d just feel your disdain for me. I’m nice. Sometimes I say goofy things without thinking. If you were my relative, I’d go out of my way to get you something special for Christmas. I’d be extremely excited about a baby, no matter what the gender. I’d probably scream about it, I’d be so excited. I doubt that I’m as intelligent as you.

So get off of your fucking high horse and try appreciating the women around you for what they are, instead of what you wish they were. I bet they could all learn something from you. I know you could learn something from them.

2

I haven’t had a problem with Shirley since I’ve been a poster…but then I’m not on here a lot and have never sent her an e-mail. However, I was taken aback by her comments about women in ChrisCTP’s thread in
MPSIMS: “Must-share e-mail.” It’s Shirley’s e-mail to ChrisCTP about the progress of her pregnancy. It’s well-written and humorous, and I enjoyed it for the most part, but at one point she goes on and on about things women do that bug her. A lot of it is stereotypical stuff (e.g., women buying shoes), and it all sounds like a put-down to women in general. Even if these things are true of many women, so what? Men have their little idiosyncrasies too. It just struck me as being so out of context, and it made me wonder.

3

I want the world to know that I own exactly two pairs of black shoes.

:wink:

-Melin

4

Twenty bucks says she won’t respond here, either.

5

Sez who?

6

This thread is the epitome of talking behind someone’s back.

Did I miss something in another thread? How is Shirley supposed to know this thread has anything to do with her “stereotypical” feelings toward other women?

If there’s no response, can we assume she felt it was beneath her notice, thereby confirming your opinion?

Someone wanna get Shirley in here please? Shirrrrrrlllllleeeeeeeyyyyyyy! Over here – come on – whaddya got to say for yourself?

I don’t think that’ll work.

7

“Sez who” - WallyM7

Sez ME Wally , what you gonna do about it, huh ?

Ayesha - Lioness

There are two solutions to every problem : the wrong one, and mine
(Thomas A. Edison)

8

1)Shirley responded to Canthearya’s post in the Mother-in-law thread. Twice.

2)Shirley’s email to me was funny and lighthearted. I’m not entirely sure where anyone could have spotted actual hatred for women, though. All of the silly stereotypes that she applied to women-in-general, she also applied to herself. Read it again.

3)I doubt that Shirley would dislike you IRL, Canthearya. She’s a very pleasant person to talk to and she has a great sense of humor. That you would make such assumptions about her is pretty much like your sister-in-law making assumptions about you, isn’t it?

4)Shirley Ujest recently changed her email address. Before that, she was on AOL. The address that she used for registration purposes was not the address/screenname she used on a daily basis. This could be why she never knew you sent her an email. Of course, you have no way of knowing this, but don’t assume that you were ignored. Lots of people have multiple email addresses, some of which may only get checked once in a while. Since she recently changed her ISP, I think it’s safe to say that she didn’t get the mail because she didn’t check that particular mailbox before the account was cancelled.

5)I really don’t need to stand up for her, as she’s perfectly capable of doing it herself, but fuck!! What purpose does this serve, exactly? Damn. Even if someone did harbor some sort of ill will towards you, what do you expect to accomplish by pointing fingers and whining, “She doesn’t like me! It’s not fair!” Who gives a shit? Really, Canthearya, I’ve read your posts, I know you’re better than that. Way better.

“Wednesday the 15th - Chris made one of her rare good points today.”
Guanolad

9

I dunno. Maybe venting in the Pit is just . . . venting?

My wife has a lot of the same personal prejudices that Shirley expresses. (Must be something about those Michigan Farm Women.) If she gets wound up, she can go for quite a while grousing about “women” stuff. I remember leaving a family party where she was really mad that she had not been able to extract herself from the “women” and had to listen to all the stories about all the kids from the young mothers and all the stories about all the young mothers-as-kids from the older mothers. She had desperately wanted to break free and join in the political discussions the the “men” were having. (I found this hysterical because I had been bored to tears by the same old unthinking rants from a bunch of guys who never read a paper and had really wanted to get into the kitchen and pick up some family lore.)

When the adoption workers told us how cute our prospective daughter was (before we were allowed to see any photos), she horrified them by announcing that she really hated frilly, frou-frou stuff and hoped that she didn’t have to dress her daughter that way.

My mom is another saint who would do anything for anyone (and often get it wrong in the process). My wife has expressed her anguish (to me) at having to sit through one more repetitious lecture on “how to raise kids.”

But you know what? My wife has never said a cross word to my mom. When my mom broke her hip, my wife volunteered our home to be the recuperation location (despite the fact that mom broke her hip at my brother’s house). My wife really tries to help my daughter to pick “girl” clothes that are flattering. My wife often offers (unrequested) assistance to neighbors and co-workers when she feels she has something to offer–regardless of whether they “meet her standards” of how women should behave. It isn’t a duplicitous nice-to-your-face, spite-your-back attitude. She simply categorizes things that bug her separately from the people who have those traits. She genuinely likes or loves many of the people that I hear groans about. But she simply reacts strongly to different things and uses me as a convenient place to lodge those feelings.

Now ShireyUJ may be the world’s most horrible termagant.

Or, she may simply find this MB a convenient place to drop rants, meaning nothing personal about them.

OTOH, maybe Canthearya was just doing the same thing and I’ve missed it. :::shrug:::
This place can get a bit tense at times.
I’ve found that ignoring insults that were not intended as personal slams (and maybe half the ones that were meant to be taken personally) makes it easier to hang around here.

Tom~

10

I shouldn’t have stuck my nose into this one, and I’m sorry I did. I have no impression of Shirley other than that she is a good writer, witty, and entertaining; I happened upon Canthearya’s rant soon after reading Shirley’s e-mail and my immediate - and probably inaccurate - impression was, hey, maybe Canthearya has something there, afterall Shirley did go on and on generalizing about the silly shit women do. I’m oversensitive on that topic anyway,and I reacted without giving it much thought. Sorry Shirley. I’ll put my brain in gear before daring to dive into the pit again.

11

If a Woman and an Anti-Woman collide, will they annihilate and produce gamma rays?

12

Incidentally, there was a thread here in the BBQ Pit about this very subject several months ago:

http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000101.html

(Well, okay, it wasn’t about this EXACT subject, because Shirley Ujest wasn’t mentioned by name. :wink: )

13

Wow, I’m the subject of a someone’s ilk and tirade. There is no higher honor.

First off, Canthearya, my email to Chris was all tongue in cheek based on (brace yourself for this) my personal experiences and observations. Hard to imagine that someone else’s viewpoint from their nikes, huh? I pride myself in being open minded. I’m so open minded that tumbleweeds roll across the Great Plains known as my mind.

Unfortunately, most people that I know are content to be lemmings and rarely poke their heads out of the holes they call their lives and panic at the first signs of [shudder] change. This refusal to accept change saddens me greatly. I’ve had so many shake ups in my life ( death of my father, grandparents, the tragic and terrifyingly slow disease of my brothers, the moving of friends, the betrayal of friends, the hurt of coworkers and moving a couple of times and my inlaws accident) and I consider my life and my experiences average and make the terrible assumption that everyone handles crisis situations and change the way I do.My mistake entirely.

[ramble]However, from these (sic)happy experiences in my life, I’ve developed ( and it is one of the few things I will openly brag about and back up with my hands tied behind my back and blindfolded)is my posession of a rapier like wit and a sense of humor that, to be honest, in my travels and experience, I’ve never met a woman and a few men quicker on the draw than me.

I’ve deflated alot of pumped up ego’s
(male and female)with a well timed barb and saved what would have been critically embarrassing situations (for other people as well as myself) with a funny remark.I’ve never taken myself seriously, because no one can make me, so there. My entire family says I’m the funniest one in the clan. ( That’s with a ‘C’ not a ‘K’) But I would never take their word for it, the bunch of congential idiots they are :)At least they know when I’m joking, my lips are moving.[/ramble]

Humor is not something everyone understands or gets. It’s alot like a shoe size. Either it fits comfortably or you just don’t buy it at all. Not everyone is going to find what I write about funny, but those that do, laugh out loud and that is all I’m going for.

I’m a huge fan of Dave Barry and PJ O’Rourke and shamelessly emulate them but with a combination of Erma Bombeck and Vicki Iovine.

Secondly, I picked on myself as much as I picked on “women in general”. Self depreciatory humor is where I excell. I poke so much fun at myself they’ve named a type of Swiss cheese after me :slight_smile: (FTR, I only have three pair of black shoes now. Therapy has helped me purge my closet of the dreaded black shoe fetish. One friend has 18 pair of black shoes. Another over forty. That’s 4-0. Now you know where I drew that from.)

Thirdly, a big hug and thanks to Tomndebb and Chris for sticking up ( or at least understand where I come from)so eloquently.

Canthearya, I never received an email from you. Really. I return all emails I receive from real live human beings. Call me anal.I love email from people I know. I am no longer on AOL, since the end of October, I beleive.

I have been a fan of your posts too and have found your writings to be intelligent and thoughtful, so your venom towards me on this subject ( In the BBQ pit, no less) perplexes me. Isn’t the BBQ a place to really vent, or am I excluded from this forum for some inexplicable reason? I try to not to be vulgar in venting,because my philosphy is quite simple: The stronger in language, the weaker the defense. It wasn’t how I was raised. Well yes, it was, but more so, its just what I’ve learned through the wanderings of my life. So I normally don’t wander into the Pit because I really cannot get past all the silly swearing to see what the message is all about, Alfie. But , that is just me, and at last I heard, I was entitled by law to be me, because no one else wanted the job.

[Massive editing of two long rambling soap boxing paragraphs that support part of what I’m getting at but would bore most of you to into a coma, has taken place. Please move along in an orderly fashion]

Canthearya, I won’t apologize for my generalizations of women.(There is no point in Sally Feilding myself and say, " I like women, I really do." because it won’t come off as sincere.)

Instead, I shall go forth and generalize men ( the knuckle draggers that they are) and watch them get their underwear in a bunch, thus equalizing out the entire situation and putting everyone in a state of disequalibrium. Then I will submit an application for employment to work on the(watch for the oxymoron)* peace talks in the Mid East.* I have just the way to sort out their problems I hear they’ve been having over there.

14

tracer sillily wrote:

To steal and badly paraphrase from Dogbert: If you have a pound of pasta and a pound of anti pasta, do they cancel each other out leaving you hungry?

15

Oh my goodness! That’s a total of 2 pounds of food and anti-food converting themselves completely into energy, in your stomach! Yikes. 2 pounds is about a kilogram, and from E = mc^2 we get an energy of 1 kg x (3 x 10^8 m/s)^2 = 9 x 10^16 Joules. That’s 25 billion kilowatt-hours … all erupting in your stomach in a single instant.

I don’t think Pepto Bismol would be enough to counter that magnitude of indigestion…

16

I’m sorry that I didn’t get back here sooner. I read a bunch of responses on New Year’s Eve but didn’t have the time to reply… I did have time to go to the In-Laws thread and ask Shirley to come over to this thread, but that was it. I probably seem like a huge troll, posting a nasty flame like the OP and not coming back for days. Sorry.

AuntiePam said:

Eeek. My excuse is that I’m a bonehead. I liked the way the title sounded and figured that Shirley would get here some way or another.

Auntie also said:

Nope. I figured that an entire flame dedicated to her would not escape her notice.

Chris said:

I expected to accomplish the monumental feat of pointing my finger and whining, “She doesn’t like me! It’s not faiiiiiir!”

Here comes the honesty. Shirley’s posts about pregnancy and being nervous about having a girl had two effects on me.

The first is that it made me put my sister-in-law and Shirley in the same category.

After reading the great responses, seeing evidence that Shirley is not as woman-hating as I thought and thinking about this for four days I’m having second thoughts. I wish that I hadn’t named Shirley in my OP. A general rant about women who hate women would have sufficed. I’m sorry, Shirley.

The second is that I realized that I’d be as nervous as she is about having a girl. I’m not your typical woman. I have manners, I like to cook, I’m good with company, I love shopping, clothes, cross-stitching… But I never wear make up, I rarely wear girly clothes, I love to curse, I love beer, South Park, hanging out with the guys, etc.

Shirley’s posts have made me realize the very thing I’ve been trying to convince her of: No matter what, my kid will turn out to be amazing. Even if she’s a little froo-froo Barbie-lovin’, boy-band listenin’, Tiger-Beat-subscribin’, pink-dress wearin’, cheerleader type, I’ll still love her perfectly coiffed butt.

It is much easier to see ourselves as better than or even worse than, rather than accepting that we simply are. - John “The Penguin” Bingham

17

They’re coifing butts now?

(I suppose that’s better than quaffing butts.)

18

Canthearya: You da MAN, baby!

“Wednesday the 15th - Chris made one of her rare good points today.”
Guanolad

19

Ummm… Word.

20

:smiley:

“Wednesday the 15th - Chris made one of her rare good points today.”
Guanolad