Wait. He has that reputation? I’ve never heard that. When Dollhouse was weak in the beginning, he really admitted it and took responsibility for it, I thought.
But so is the X-men 3 and the X-men Origin: Wolverine movie and they are not 100% better than X-men 1.
Honestly, I don’t see why the Hulk NEEDS to be in the Avengers movie. It’s not like the movies have stuck slavishly to comic book canon, and it certainly looks like they’re setting up for Cap to be in the Avengers’ first adventure. Does it have to be a Loki-dupes-the-Hulk plot that brings them together? Maybe Hank Pym gathers them together because his runaway robot is too powerful to be stopped by any one hero. Maybe Kang or Immortus gets them together for a time-hunt. Maybe Baron Zemo gather a super-group of every hero’s villains to take over the world, and the heroes realize they need to band together to stop them.
Heck with the Hulk. Let the Avengers be the Avengers.
FOX fucked around with *Firefly *so now his fans whine about him not getting a fair shake any time his name is attached to anything. Both *Drive *(not Joss’, but it was produced by one of Angel’s producers) and *Dollhouse *had fans whining that it was going to get canceled prematurely before either series even had its premiere.
**MTCicero *conflates this with X-Men *and Aliens 4, for some reason, even though the former was successful with minimal involvement from Joss, and the latter was a movie written but not directed by Whedon, so the fault really is not with him.
In short, he doesn’t like Joss or his fans – which *can *be pretty obnoxious, and I say that as someone who owns all of Joss’ TV work besides *Dollhouse *-- and seems to take every opportunity to bitch about his work.
The first movie in any superhero franchise is always the origin story, and Hulk features prominently in it. Plus, the Avengers are Marvel’s JLA, and the Hulk is one of their most recognized names, so it makes sense from a marketing standpoint.
Another factor is this is aimed at a movie audience not a comic book audience. The average movie goer (even for a superhero movie) is not going to recognize who Baron Zemo or Ultron or Kang is. The Hulk however is a known character. So he can be used and the audience will accept that he’s a serious threat requiring several superheroes to band together.
And, so?
I’d bet that unless you knew they were writ by Whedon, and you wanted to dislike them, you wouldn’t have given them more than a moments thought. I mean, I can quote you the bad lines from many other Marvel films- the entire fucking script of Howard the Duck, the 1990 Captain America, the 1989 Punisher, Daredevil, Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D, the 2003 Hulk, not to mention good chunks of Elektra, Fantastic Four and so forth.
No. It’s been a much reviled line since the movie first came out. Even I think it’s dumb, and as mentioned, I’m a Whedon fanboy. Of course, knowing how it was likely meant to be said, I do blame the actor and director instead of the writer, but it’s still awful as filmed.
It’s because a bad line in a bad movie is simply par for the course. There is nothing unreasonable about holding something like Back to the Future to a higher standard than Manos: The Hands of Fate.
Whedon wouldn’t have been my choice for writing or directing an Avengers movie. His greatest strength is inventing interesting characters and he won’t be able to use that in this movie - he’ll be handed a cast of established characters.
He did okay in Astonishing X-Men.
I liked his line in “Gifted” where he had Kitty tell Colossus(any misrememberances are mine), “If you’re a clone, or a robot, or something that actually believes you are Pitr I can deal, but if you’re just lying to me I swear I’ll fucking kill you!”
Enjoy,
Steven
Well, from his other posts it’s clear he doesn’t get much of anything, so singling him out for this is kind of pointless.
Ohhhh-kay. Preferences for and against Joss Whedon are a matter of opinion, not fact. And opinions, as we know, are something we’re all entitled to.
So dial it back, please. Nobody here owns the truth about Whedon’s brilliance, or lack thereof.
Ellen Cherry
Cafe Society Moderator
Looks like Nathan Fillion will not be Ant-Man, folks.
Yeah, so I didn’t think it was true anyway, but there it is.
There were rumors? I hadn’t heard of it, but I’m not surprised. One of the more annoying things about the Whedon fandom is that they are so insistent on him casting his alumni in anything he’s attached to. There are probably fans of his out there that are pissed off because Tom Lenk isn’t playing Captain America. It’s ridiculous.
Here’s the way I’d plot the movies out
Thor: Introduce Thor. Bring in the Wasp, some version of Henry Pym, and maybe Hawkeye as secondary characters working for Shield. Some kind of character flaw has to be set up.
Captain America: Introduce Captain America. Set it in World War II. End with Cap being frozen in ice.
Iron Man III: Follow up on his self-destructive habits. He loses a big fight, the Iron Man suit is confiscated (probably operated by Rhodey) and starts serious drinking. But in the climax he pulls it back together and beats the villain. Have a few scenes with the Shield characters.
Avengers: Brings it all together. Hulk goes on a rampage. Thor and Iron Man each try to stop him solo but fail (this is the point of Thor’s flaw from the previous movie). Captain America is discovered and revived. He becomes the linchpin of the new group. All of the heroes work together and beat the Hulk.
So there is a God, after all?
MTCicero, we get it, you’re not a fan.
Stop coming into these threads to spread your contempt. It’s threadshitting, and it’s covered under our “don’t be a jerk” rule. The next time you do it, you’ll get a warning.
twickster, Cafe Society moderator