The Boston Red Sox

The BBQ Pit
1

I recently spoke with a number of Boston Red Sox fans who expressed the belief that the Red Sox would win the World Series this year. After I finished laughing, I posted this message at baseballboards, and figured it would go well here. I feel that since the purpose of the SDMB is to fight ignorance, it is high time I tried to get through to Red Sox fans:

The Red Sox have no chance of winning the World Series this year. None whatsoever; zero, less than the Expos or the Orioles.

The Red Sox will never, ever win the World Series, because they are losers. I don’t know if there’s a “Curse” - I don’t believe in that sort of thing - but I do know that the Boston Red Sox will never win another World Series. The Padres might only win it once a century. The Expos might only win it once a millenium. But the Red Sox will never win it. Never. Other teams are bad, or terrible, or in the case of the Orioles they can be so criminally Godawful that there should be a law against them, but the Red Sox are losers. They are the absolute apex of loserdom, the ultimate evolutionary state of the species Loserus Ballplayerus. To don a Red Sox jersey is to fully embrace being a loser.

It is a natural part of Boston baseball. It doesn’t matter who they get, what they do, or how they play; they will always lose. You could use a time machine to bring back Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Walter Johnson, Honus Wagner and Hank Aaron in their peak condition, put them in Boston uniforms, and they still wouldn’t win the World Series. They will not win the World Series this year, next year, in the next ten years, in the next hundred years, or in the next thousand. If Major League Baseball is played for a hundred thousand years (and, God willing, it will be) the Red Sox will not win the World Series. They are losers, and they will always be losers. To be a Red Sox fan is to be completely bereft of any hope or chance. They are doomed forever, and there is nothing the Red Sox can do to change it.

Oh, they’ll win division titles. They will win pennants. Red Sox players will win Cy Young Awards and MVP Awards and Gold Gloves. Their stars will be elected to the Hall of Fame (Pedro!) They may even beat the Yankees in a playoff series. But sooner or later, they will always blow it. It’s an absolute inviolable physical law of the universe. If the Red Sox go 162-0 next year, sweep the ALDS and ALCS, make it to the World Series and win the first three games and lead Game 4 15-0 in the ninth inning with two out and nobody on, I absolutely guarantee you that they will give up fifteen or sixteen runs, blow the game, and lose three more.

Was it a curse? I don’t know; I doubt it. I don’t think it’s a lack of “leadership” or “intangibles,” either. But something has happened since 1918. Something that has infected the Red Sox, their ballpark, their uniforms, their very names with the stench of losing. To be a Red Sox is to be a loser. To wear their jersey and their cap is to say to the world “I am a talented ballplayer, but I shall now choke and lose in every manner possible until I join another team.” To be a Red Sox manager or GM is to rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic. To cheer for them is to cheer on a hopeless cause. Red Sox fans will not see them win the World Series this year, or next year, or the year after. They will go on dreaming their hopeless dreams and live their entire lives watching the Red Sox have bad seasons, or have good seasons and choke in the playoffs, or win the playoffs and lose the World Series on a ridiculous, comical error. Their hopes will be dashed, little by little, for years and years and decades and decades, and they will die old men and women never having seen the Red Sox win the World Series, and so it will be for their children, and their grandchildren, and for a thousand generations to come. The lucky ones will never realize the empty hopelessness of their cause.

There are those who would say that the Bill Buckner moment is the defining moment in Red Sox history. I shall disagree. There is certainly a wonderful, poetic truth in that scene of the World Series rolling through Bill Buckner’s legs. It is somehow fitting that the Red Sox would execute an absolutely perfect choke and complete it with such a hilarious play. It is perfectly suitable that the play happened because of a move the Red Sox manager forgot to make, and it is exquisitely fitting that the Red Sox reaction to having disgraced themselves and the ciy they represent was to blame each other rather than coming together as a team. The perfect expression of being a Red Sox is Bill Buckner’s asinine claim that it wouldn’t have mattered if he’d caught the ball because he didn’t think he could get Wilson out anyway, which is simply a baldfaced lie. (Even if he hadn’t gotten Wilson, the game would not have been over, since no run would have scored if he’d caught the ball. The winning run scored from second.) How perfect. If the Red Sox make the World Series this year, the PR director of the National League champion should have that scene on the cover of the programs and replayed on the scoreboard at the beginning of every NL park game with the headline “We Have Nothing To Worry About.”

But no, that is not the defining moment in Red Sox History. You know what the defining moment is? Carlton Fisk’s home run to win Game Six of the 1975 World Series. Red Sox fans still celebrate that play. Red Sox fans claim it is one of the greatest moments in baseball history. And what makes it so perfect in defining the Red Sox as a team is that they lost the World Series! The Red Sox fan’s favourite moment, a moment they WORSHIP, is a play from a World Series they lost. How perfect is that?

Pedro will win his World Series someday. With another team. Just like Clemens. Just like Boggs. If he makes the terrible error of staying in Boston, he will always be remembered as are Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Dwight Evans (an underrated ballplayer) and Jim Rice; great players, but they never won the ring. That is the anthem of the Red Sox: “But, if, only, maybe.”

Given that the Red Sox cannot win the World Series, it is obvious to me that the best thing for Boston Red Sox fans would be to disband the team and distribute the players throughout the rest of MLB. Fenway Park, a temple of losing, should be burned to ashes and the ground seeded with salt, covered with land mines, and blocked off by a brick wall. After ten years, perhaps Boston can get a new expansion team that will not be such a pack of hopeless, pointless, doomed losers. But I do not want that to happen, because as a fan of another team, I can always count on the Red Sox to lose that key game, drop that key fly ball, strike out in the kay situation, or let that key ground ball roll through their legs. Fans of the teams that have at least a small chance of a World Series wins will always have the Red Sox to deliver the key choke and Red Sox fans to pity and laugh at.
loser (LOO-zer) /lose (old Eng “losian,” to perish, lose) n. 1. The losing party in a contest, match, or competition. 2. One who is typically unsuccessful, incompetent, or unlucky. 3. A member of the Boston Red Sox.

2

Um, what might be that “other team” that you root for, Rick? And your reasons for being a fan of that team are? That they have won a World Series in recent memory, or are supposedly capable of doing so…and that fills an incredibly deep-seated need on your part?

I don’t live in Boston, but for the past few years I’ve vacationed in New England in late September and made a point of going to Sox games. The weather’s great, the ballpark’s beautiful, the clam chowder is terrific, and for several of those years playoff anticipation was in the air. It was fun, even with that Dreaded Miasma of Losing Baseball that you seem preoccupied with.

Besides, you don’t understand that this is the year. We’ve got hitting, pitching, def…uh, hitting and pitching. The Yankees are only an injury or two away from the glories of '65, the other playoff teams of '00 are struggling and Seattle and Minnesota will be coming back to earth by the All-Star break.

May the Green Monster lurk in your dreams.

3

As long as you asked, the Blue Jays, because they’re the local team, and yes, I’ve seen them win a couple of World Series, and that fills my luck quota for awhile. Actually, when you think about it, that’s sixty years’ worth of their fair share of world championships.

But I am not here to harp on fans whose teams have not won the World Series in recent memory, such as the Cubs or the Indians or the Giants. Nor am I here to castigate those who teams have not yet won their ring, like the Mariners or the Angels. Those things come and go. Sometimes a team goes eighty years without winning, but as Phillies fans can tell you, the impossible dream can happen. Every team has a chance. But not the Red Sox. They are doomed forever.

I don’t dislike the Red Sox. I don’t really dislike any team, but if I had to pick one I dislike it’d be the Mets. Or maybe the Yankees. In fact, I think it would be nice if the Red Sox COULD win the World Series. I am simply pointing out a fact; the Red Sox will never win the World Series again.

Of course, the Red Sox fans will protest. They will say they have hitting and pitching. It simply doesn’t matter, the poor fools. The Sox will choke.

4

I think what Ted Williams is most remembered for is being perhaps the greatest ball-hitter of all time, and certainly in the top five. And really, that’s what matters. At least to people who love the game. He was a figure that transcended championships, rings, and all that. He was simply an amazing ballplayer, a personification of everything good and right about the sport.

Yeah, being on the Red Sox is probably the only reason he isn’t as widely regarded as DiMaggio. But to those of us from Boston, he will always be our hero. Because we go to watch great baseball, and don’t measure our self-worth in terms of our ball team’s championships.

As for the rest of your hate-filled nonsense, aall I have to say is that schadenfreude is one of the ugliest emotions, in my opinion, and your contribution sets a new level. But, hey, if it’s how you feel good about yourself, who am I to rain on your parade?

5

Wow. That is just so…

harsh.

And I’m a Yankee fan, too!

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that the Red Sox will never win anything, but it is rather amazing the ways they seem to have their collective hearts ripped out, year after year. However, when I hear some Red Sox fans muttering about the “Curse Of The Bambino”, well, that’s pretty lame. Isn’t it time to give that hokey idea a rest?

They may be a divisional rival, but I’ll say one thing for the Red Sox faithful: they damn sure aren’t fair-weather fans. Despite all the broken dreams, they come out and cheer on their team. It’s too bad fans in many other cities don’t do the same.

6

He isn’t?

7

RickJay, you dick-head!

I grew up in New England. While I’m not your typical Joe Six-Pack rabid baseball fan, I do root for the Red Sox every year, and I do pile hope upon hope that this is the year they win it.

That is all I have to say, because I can’t really argue with your OP. Even the misspellings were fairly accurate.

But, by simply pointing all this out … you are the Numero Uno, Grade-A, USDA Prime, El Supremo, Undisputed Heavyweight Champeeeen Dick-Head whose ever walk the face of God’s green earth!!

8

World Series.

Possibly the best Dead Sox team ever.

Lonborg got whupped in game 7.

That’s how it goes for Boston.

:shrug: Hell, I’m a Cubs fan. I know how it is.

9

RickJay, I got some friends over in Winter Hill than can ensure the Red Sox will have won another Series long before your remains are ever found underneath the Big Dig.

We’re watching you. Play nice.

[sub]That tears it. This is the year I’m buying the BoSox road cap from mlb.com![/sub]

10

Interestingly enough, I had almost 0 interest in baseball until I moved into the Boston area.

Besides that (which has little to do with the rant), I should mention that you may want to heap your predictions on Cleveland instead.

Ouch. Maybe it just has to do with the places I’ve lived? No, 'cause those stupid Marlins… [insert raw, animal raging noises and smashing sounds]

11

>>>I don’t dislike the Red Sox. I don’t really dislike any team, but if I had to pick one I dislike it’d be the Mets.<<< Rick J

Hey? What did we ever do to the Jays to have you feel this way? I actually root for the Jays to dethrone the accursed Yankees.Somebody win the AL east besides them,anybody…please.

12

Yeah, that was my thought, too, mouthbreather. Last year I shelled out some bucks for a Ted Williams autographed baseball (I collect memorabilia) and I hold Williams in higher regard than DiMaggio. To me, the top 5 hitters to play the game (in no particular order) are: Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, and Ted Williams. Had Williams not lost 5 years to fight in WWII and Korea, he could very well have been the first man to tak a serious shot at breaking the Babe’s homerun record.

I think you may be a little too humble as far as Williams is concerned, waterj2.

And as for the OP, how can you honestly believe the Red Sox will never win the World Series? Look around the League. Right now, the Red Sox are as good or better than any other team out there. They have a shot. Sure, they’ve had a rough history, but the Red Sox will win the Series again. (I just hope I’m alive to see it.)

13

Agreed, Crunchy.

In fact, I’d be interested to hear anyones argument that DiMaggio was a better ballplayer than Williams.

14

Well, he did fuck Marilyn Monroe.

15

As a fan of a team who lost more games in the 20th century then any other, I don’t feel like I can comment on the Red Sox’ fortunes. [sub] Go Phillies!!![/sub]

I do want to make some comments on the Joe Dimaggio versus Ted Williams debate. I never saw either of them play. I only know about them through stories from my Dad, and various articles.

Ted Williams was a better hitter than Joe DiMaggio. When I see Williams go down the street- I say “There goes the greatest hitter who ever lived.” (Ok, I don’t say that. I would probably say. “Hey, isn’t that Ted Williams! Wow. What is he doing in Santa Barbara. I am going to go get his autograph. Wow.”)

As an overall ballplayer, I think Joe DiMaggio might get the nod because of his fielding. In 1722 games DiMaggio had 4787 chances, 105 errors and 4529 put outs. Williams had 4414 chances, 113 errors and 4159 put outs in 2152 games. This shows that DiMaggio was able to get to more balls, and his fielding percentage was a little bit better. It is difficult to compare the two of them based soley on stats, since they played different positions, but we need a way to compare their fielding, and that is one way. In articles and stories I have read about Williams, it is said that he was less concerned about his fielding; he spent most of his time concentrating on his hitting skills. DiMaggio, on the other hand, was known for covering large areas of the outfield, turning singles into outs, and doubles into singles. (Of course, his ego in the field is blamed for Mickey Mantle’s knee injury, but that doesn’t fit well into this conversation.)

I think it is a close call. Both were Hall Of Famers. DiMaggio got more credit during his career, because he was more gracious to the press and fans. He got more exposure, since he was on teams that consistently went to the World Series. (Plus, there is a little thing about hitting in 56 straight games. Williams hit .400 that year, and his season was still overshadowed by that streak. DiMaggo won the MVP, partly on the back of the streak, and partly because the Boston writers refused to vote for Williams.)

All in all, I don’t know who I would choose as a better player. I do see how arguments could be made for either player. When people ask me who the best player I have ever seen play, I have to respond with Steve Carlton. (Hey, I told you I never saw those two play.)

pat

16

The Sox are awesome, you stupid-head. :wink:

17

Joe D played 13 years,missing 3 during WWII…game total 1736.

Ted Williams played 19 years,missing 5 for WWII and korea, game total 2292.
If you do some creative “extrapolation” Dimaggio would have hit 476 HRs if he played in 2292 games compared to 521 by Williams.

IMHO Ted Williams was a Hitters hitter…one of the best.
Joe Dimaggio was an excellent hitter and a SLIGHTLY better fielder.

Joe D got more press due to the simple fact that he played for the Yankees during their incredible run,playing in 10 series and winning 9(batting avg of .271 w/8hrs).Williams only played in one series (batting .200 no hrs).

This indicates to me that Joe D was more “clutch” than Ted Williams.The real Question is “Who would you rather have play on YOUR fantasy team?”

18

So wait, you’re an EXPANSION fan, whose team plays in one of the shittiest parks in the majors, and is, if I may point out, Ca-FUCKING-Nadian, and you’re attacking one of the teams with the greatest history in baseball?

Go watch Hockey Night in Canada, and let the people who INVENTED baseball deal with the playoffs, eh?

19

You invented baseball, Flymaster?

Wow.

20

It’s a pretty mild level of dislike. I don’t like their uniforms. :slight_smile:

Being a Blue Jays fan, the team has never really developed a single rivalry. There was sort of a rivalry with the Yankees at first, but they collapsed when the Jays became really good and came back when the Jays were out of it, so they’re out. A rivalry with the Red Sox has come and gone, there being no REALLY good pennant races to speak of between the two. They don’t have a long enough record of head-to-head fights with any one team to really have a rivalry, so I can’t have a Hate Team there. And for the last two decades the only really, really dominant team has been the Yankees these last five years and frankly they’re sort of an anti-Yankees, the Nice Yankees. I mean, who can hate Joe Torre?

Flymaster:

I guess you’ve never been there. SkyDome’s a really nice park. The sightlines are terrific, the stadium is accessible and surrounded by good places to eat, it looks nice, and it’s a comfortable place to watch a game. The retractable roof is a big advantage, too, especially in Toronto where you get a lot of thunderstorms. Ticket prices are very cheap by MLB standards, too. It’s not the best park in the majors, and it really should have natural grass or at least that pseudograss, but it’s in the top half, especially when you consider location. You want a horrible ballpark, visit Olympic Stadium in Montreal. It’s not as bad as you’ve heard… it’s worse. It’s worth a whole Pit thread on its own.
Ted Williams vs. Joe DiMaggio

I don’t think any serious student of baseball history would say that DiMaggio was a superior ballplayer. DiMaggio has a more rounded resume; he was a better defensive player and he won NINE World Series (wow!) which is second only to Yogi. But Williams’s hitting was just so unbelievably awesome it trumps Joe D. - I mean, there is no comparison. Williams was head and shoulders above everyone who has ever played the game except Ruth, and they were neck and neck. I don’t buy, incidentally, the notion that Williams was not a clutch hitter; hitting .200 in one World Series doesn’t prove anything. It’s just unfortunate that Williams played for the Red Sox, since that guaranteed he’d never win the World Series.

It’s too bad he didn’t play for the Cardinals. Or the Indians. With Teddy, the Indians might have stopped the Yankees a few more times.