From that article,
Can we say that they were derived to their limit?
Sticks and stones.
Any personal insults won’t change the fact that the Mormon church is weird and breeds the crazies.
That said, I am eternally grateful that you are the face of Mormonism on this board.
And I was going to take the high road, dammit.
No, which is why his only response is to attack me. He can’t deny the connection between Mormonism and Bundyism so why bother?
It’s strong.
I grew up in the 60s and 70s with parents who were both born pre-WWII on farms in rural Utah. The Mormon church really started to water down its theology into tasteless gruel in an attempt to appear to be indistinguishable from mainstream protestant churches. The movement started from the 50s, but became stronger in the 80s and after. I don’t know if anyone remembers sappy commercials such as this, from 1985.
As my parents were both conservative members, I was raised with the same theology which the Bundys and the Tarp Man practice and practiced respectively. We didn’t think of ourselves as “Christians,” we were “Mormons,” a particular people and separate from the world. This was old school; with polygamy coming back some day, the goal was in sight and we were going to be called upon for make sacrifices when Jesus came. Like all of our neighbors, we had two years’ worth of food in our basement, enough to last the hardships while the final war between Good and Evil played out even in our backyard.
We were the noble ones, the Saturday’s Warriors, valiant spirits from the Pre-Existence[sup]TM[/sup] who were saved to the end of the world to fight for the Kingdom of God. Heady stuff. The end was near, everyone and everything outside of our safe little group of persecuted Saints were becoming increasingly evil. When all seemed that Satan was going to prevail, our band of righteous men (while the women stayed home barefoot tending the kids) would save the world, Jesus would come, ushering in the millennium and fulfilling God’s eternal plan laid from before the world was formed.
As I’ve posted in several posts, Bundy and friends listened to their Sunday School teachers a little to carefully.
Although the church has tried to sound bland, papering over these doctrines in public, it hasn’t really disavowed its violent past and the apocalyptic view of the world. The leaders rally the members with constant calls for vigilance in an evil world.
As real growth of the church is, in fact, gone neutral or negative in all parts of the world, save the Sub Saharan African countries, you can count on it to retrench, and become even more conservative.
As I posted in the third link above, the apostles and prophets are stoking the fire with calls for increased wariness of the measures the government takes to eliminate our personal liberties. From my post:
The “title of liberty” had its place of honor at the Bundy ranch during the armed stand off. Months later, the apostle of God tells members throughout the world that they are to host the Title of Liberty and that members should run to rally around it because the end of the world is near.
You can’t actually get any clearer than that.
Except, all this hot air about the loss of liberty is actually code talk for homophobic nonsense. The Mormon church had doubled down on its anti-gay message and wants its members to shun gay parents. This had lead to an increase in the number of teenage suicides in Utah by LGBT children of Mormon households.
The problem is that Bundy didn’t pick up on the subtleties and thought they were agreeing with his father. Ooops. It’s a mistake a lot of members have made, though.
The TL,DR summary is that yes, there is a strong correlation although not necessarily a strict causation. Not all Mormons are going to point guns at federal agents, but it’s clearly not surprising that some do.
Well said, TokyoBayer.
+1
Yeah, right. Your very first post directed toward me on this board was insulting. And let’s not forget you got warned for an explicit insult to me outside The BBQ Pit. And if the LDS church “is breeding the crazies”, why aren’t we awash with loons pulling Bundy-style loon stunts?
Of course there’s a connection. Out of a group of millions, there will always be some who will be a bit on the odd side. In this instance, “bit on the odd side” means “like the Bundy outfit”. By the way, some of those occupiers were not Mormons, right? What was their connection to LDS theology?
Oh, it is not. If it were so strong, plenty of Mormons all over the country would be all over themselves supporting those idiots. From what I’ve seen with this performance art on the Bundys’ part, it’s a rather small group who are on their side. And that group voluntarily decreased their number by one “with extreme prejudice”.
Well, the LDS church I know hasn’t been trying to look just like mainstream Protestants, or any other Protestants for that matter; not in the early 1980s, not in the late 1980s, and certainly not in 2016. The church way back in the 1980s taught at that time that it’s different from Protestantism and it still teaches sthat.
Yeah, you’ve regaled us with stories of your Mormon family before. Let me regale you of stories of Mormon families I’ve know all my life (even before I joined the church): they practiced food storage, not for “the final war between Good and Evil” but for emergencies, such as floods, earthquakes, and the like. The families I’ve known aren’t like yours.
Maybe their Sunday school teachers should’ve listened to the church leaders more carefully.
None of that is a call to overthrow the US government today. To the contrary, as mentioned up-thread, the LDS church specifically stated that the Bundy-ites aren’t acting in accordance with their teachings.
That’s actually irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
The United States flag was also there “in a place of honor”. Guess what; the Bundy-its weren’t honoring the United States of America with their treasonous acts.
What does that have to do with the Bundy-ites and their treason?
Once again: out of a group of millions, you’re likely to have some who think it’ll be fun to do something stupid like pointing a gun at LEOs. That does not mean it’s the group’s doctrine that one should go out and pull a pistol on the Feebs.
I am not, nor do I believe that I am, the “face of Mormonism on this board”. I participate in discussions of many topics and, as some highly respected posters have mentioned, when it comes to the LDS, I try to answer factually. You, on the other hand, really see to think that you are the be all and end all of all knowledge relating to the LDS.
Now you can “be cute” and “get your huff on” if you want.
Jesus, a friend’s father just posted, on Facebook, a dedication to LaVoy Finicum as a hero who was assassinated.
I hate it when normal seeming people are fucking idiots.
Lobohan, don’t read Facebook. Ever. It’s bad for your health.
The “Feebs”? Who talks like that? You sound like some kind of Scientologist or Moonie.
I read Facebook and look what it does to me.
As our Epsilon of grazeable materials gets closer and closer to 0, the Delta of cattle profits would go past 0 … at which time we have to consider the change-in-state from solvency to bankruptcy.
Or a Law & Order television series aficionado.
[Ammon Bundy continues to pile up bullshit and push it onto the public, even tho he’s in jail. Here’s his latest plea/directive:
](Ammon Bundy issues new statement from jail: Urges elected officials to support their imprisoned constituents - oregonlive.com)I like how he’s now trying desperately to characterize holding people at bay with the threats of violence as “civil disobedience”.
That last paragraph about how people should support his freedom of speech (or else they are presumably people with no respect for the traditions and/or laws of this country) is like icing on the pudding. 
Ammon Bundy is a dangerous, delusional moron, a bully and a criminal; my cite is, oh, everything he’s said and done in 2016.
I mean, threats are a kind of speech.
Ah, there you are, television is corroding your grey matter.
Dunno if it belongs here but I lived in southern Utah for a while although I am not (and have never been Mormon). I’ve seen what both TB and Monty have mentioned. A vast majority of Mormons are as normal as everybody else but they do seem to engender a larger-than-usual fringe element like the FLDS and the Bundys. My own opinion is that since Utah has such a high percentage of Mormons the fringe groups feed off each other.
I never personally ran up against a fringe element (unless you count shopping in the same store with FLDS wives) but lived near Virgin, Hurricane, and La Verkin where a few made the news. I’ve been to Kanab many times and love the area. It would have been surreal to be there during the funeral.
I am a bit curious as to why Tarpman’s funeral was in Kanab. It was over 150 miles from his ranch, if you are a corvid, almost twice that for someone in a car. Why was that?
He was born in Kanab.
(And I used to be a federal contractor, working with some active and former members of the FBI. “Feeb” was a common term in our circles, as was “Spook” for CIA.)
So… if they ever invaded SLC and took over The Tabernacle… it would be like… Thunder Dome…!?
Cliven is going to Burns. Plenty of bored feebs (yeah, I went there) around, maybe they can arrange to take him on a fun ride in the back of a police car. He’s been trying to get 100 + men and 1 leader from every militia group to go with him.
“Elected representative” means “constitutional sheriff,” which is who Cliven has spent the past couple days meeting with.