Can you give us some examples? I hate to play guess the rules
I assume it would vary from power to power. Since we, as a collective, don’t know any of the powers, “depends” makes sense.
Pedescribe, if praying doesn’t restrict in any way, then what’s the purpose of it? If the person infected by the Seed of Sin is lynched before the prayer period is up, is their alignment upon death Sinner? And if they’re NKed by Blackhearts, does the praying action have any affect on that?
The previous post was edited only to change the posting color! I posted it in Lime first, which was unreadable.
I can’t answer that, as it would unduly alter the gamestate.
No. It will show as Impure Town, whether or not they were trying to become pure again.
No. You can’t pray yourself back to life.
God, it’s been years.
This might help:
Hester Prynne -sinners
Roger Chillingworth - mafia
Pearl - “Hester’s illegitimate daughter Pearl is a young girl with a moody, mischievous spirit and an ability to perceive things that others do not.” (cop?)
Reverend Arthur Dimmesdale - “His commitments to his congregation are in constant conflict with his feelings of sinfulness and need to confess.” (wimp?)
Governor Bellingham - There are traditional governor/mayor roles, perhaps that?
Mistress Hibbins - “She is commonly known to be a witch who ventures into the forest at night to ride with the “Black Man.” Her appearances at public occasions remind the reader of the hypocrisy and hidden evil in Puritan society.”
Reverend Mr. John Wilson - "Boston’s elder clergyman, Reverend Wilson is scholarly yet grandfatherly. "
shrug
Darn.
So, you have a power role, you can’t use it for the two nights that you are praying. If I understand correctly
I’ve read a few rules on Roles in mafia. I immediately see connections here.
((I love this game already, and I don’t think this game has taken off yet.))
Pure speculation out in the open here::
Dimmesdale :: Priest or Naive Priest [And In Real Life, I need to go research “Dimmesdale” and Fairly Oddparents. — Then again, if Heathcliff (The OTHER orange cat cartoon) can have Wuthering Heights…]
Wilson :: Priest, or a weak priest.
NETA: I Agree with your assesment of Governors. Can’t they buy votes?
w00t! my first NETA.
The Lovers / Sibling Power Role with Chillingsworth?
Generic ponderings about the factions and win conditions:
We’re told that the Blackhearts are a more-or-less traditional scum faction. I assume that that means that they can night-kill one person per turn. Roger Chillngsworth might be a Godfather/Alpha type, but that doesn’t really say much, since the power of the Scum Leader varies considerably from game to game. From the point of view of the Blackhearts, it looks like this is almost a pure vanilla game, since Town vs. Sinner makes very little difference to them (the only distinction being that the Sinners might be able to steal a win from the Blackhearts without killing all of them-- I assume that Blackhearts count as “sinners” with respect to victory conditions).
The Sinners appear to be a mostly-normal scum faction, except with recruitment instead of killing. On the other hand, they don’t seem to be able to force a recruitment on anyone, so they can only win if people want to join them, but people will only want to join them if it looks like they’re winning. I expect we’ll see folks starting to defect if the first few kills hit Town harder than Sinners.
And Town, as always, is expected to have the advantage of the majority, along with perhaps a few power roles.
On numbers: From a balance standpoint, I would expect that there are fewer Sinners than Blackhearts, since the number of Sinners can increase over the course of the game. I would also expect that the Sinners start with at least 2 or 3 members, since otherwise a lucky hit could kill the faction entirely at the beginning of the game. And with 18 players and 3 factions, I wouldn’t expect more than 4 players on a traditional Scum faction. Given all that, my guess is that we have 11 Town, 3 Sinners, and 4 Blackhearts. I will be using these numbers for further analysis.
The best-case outcome for Town is if Town ostracizes the four Blackhearts on the first four days, and the Blackhearts kill the three Sinners on the first three days. This could potentially lead to a Town victory at nightfall of Day 4, with 10 town alive, and 11 players victorious. The best-case outcome for Blackhearts is lynches or ostracizations of 5 non-Blackhearts on the first five Days, and night kills of 5 non-Blackhearts on the first five Nights, giving a Blackheart victory with 4 alive and a total of 4 victorious players. The best-case outcome for Sinners is for a Townie to be executed every Day, a Townie to be tempted every Night, and a Townie night-killed every Night, with all temptations being accepted, for a net increase of two Sinners and a net decrease of three Townies per day/night. This leads to a Sinner victory at the end of Night 4, with 11 Sinners being victorious. The outcome with the largest number of victorious players is for Town to execute Blackhearts each of the first four Days, Blackhearts to nightkill Sinners each of the first three Nights, and Sinners to tempt otherwise-pure Townies, and then once the Blackhearts are all gone, for Town to execute someone who’s already a Sinner every remaining Night. In this case, all players except for Blackhearts (approximately 14, given my assumptions above) would end up on the Sinners team, which would win.
This seems to suggest that it might be to the advantage of almost everyone for Town and Sinners to collaborate for a Sinner victory.
Well, we have a lot of speculation but very little to go on. It seems clear from Ped’s responses to questions that he is not inclined to spell too much out for us, we are going to have to get information through trial and error.
With regard to what roles may exist, anything in or out of any of the various linked references may be out there. In general, the most common Town roles are Detective, Doctor, Vigilante and/or Masons. Godfather is probably the most common Scum power role (obviously this only makes sense if Town has a Detective), but in many games the Scum don’t have individual power roles. I am guessing that in this setup, the Town (and/or the Blackhearts) may well have a power role specifically designed to harm the Sinners, possibly by protecting Pure players from being infected…but that is, uh, Pure speculation.
With regard to the two styles of lynches, trying to think like a game designer, there must be some reason we have them. It seems logical that there might be symmetry between two kinds of lynches and two scum groups, such that one kind of lynch is somehow more advantageous against one kind of scum.
Hypothesis: Since Execution obviously offers a potential advantage to the Sinners, maybe Ostracism somehow works to the advantage of the Blackhearts? Perhaps the Blackhearts do have a lot of power roles? Or maybe (Ped’s non-answer to my question seems to leave this possibility open) some or all Blackhearts can continue to function for longer than one night after being ostracized?
Paranoid variation on hypothesis: Maybe Ped is fucking with us and, contrary to the obvious assumption, it is actually better for the Sinners if we ostracize and for the Blackhearts if we execute.
On a related question…how suspicious should we be of the last player to vote for an Executed player? My feeling is, not very. If we are quick to lynch such a player on suspicion of trying to go over to the Sinners, it will deter people from voting, which will have a very anti-Town effect. In general, I think people will be psychologically reluctant to betray “their” team, so I doubt many people will be wanting to go over to the Sinners (unless we get to the endgame and it seems they are likely to win). On the other hand, if someone is clearly going to be Executed anyway and someone comes in to vote for him with two minutes left in the Day, that will look fishy as hell; but my intention is to assume that any vote which could plausibly be motivated by standard Mafia play most likely is so motivated.
Brief summary of the above for those too attention-disordered to read long posts: I don’t have the slightest idea what the hell is going on. Would someone please say something scummy so I can vote for you? Thanks.
Noob hat back on again.
**
Abstracted Example for my question.
A game with the exact same rules we have currently. 5 players in the game Total.
Player A Votes to Execute Player B.
B votes to Execute A. [They each called each other out. and each made a solid case.]
C votes to Execute B
D votes to Execute A
E votes to Execute A
For Argument’s sake, they happened to vote in the exact order given.
Now;
-
A is Executed. Correct?
-
E gets the seed of evil implanted in him. Correct?
-
Does C also get the seed implanted in him ? [Last player to vote for A, but not the last player OVERALL to vote.]
What is the exact ruling that clarifies question 3 ?
–
Player E can then decide to pray, and if praying is not blocked, he will be evil seed free at a later point. Correct?
**
Quoth me:
Correction: Assuming there are at least two Sinners to start, there exists a condition under which every player wins, if we choose to coöperate. It goes something like this:
1: All Sinners and Blackhearts declare.
2: If the number of Blackhearts is two or more greater than the number of Sinners, Town executes a Blackheart. Otherwise, Town executes a Sinner.
3: The executioner in either case should be a previously-pure Townie. E then chooses to change allegiance to the Sinner faction. The number of live Sinners is then the same as at the beginning of the game (one lost to the execution, one gained from the executioner).
4: The Sinners tempt a previously-pure Townie, increasing the number of Sinners by one, and the Blackhearts murder a known Sinner, decreasing the number of Sinners by one. Again, the number of Sinners remains constant.
5: Go to step 2 and repeat
6: Eventually, we reach a point where, at the end of the Day, we have one Pure Townie left, N live Sinners left, and N+1 live Blackhearts left. At this point, nobody has met a win condition: There exist impure players, there exist non-sinful players, and the Blackhearts are not in the majority.
7: That Night, the Sinners tempt the last remaining Pure Townie, who accepts, and the Blackhearts murder another Sinner.
8: As of the end of the last Night, the Sinner victory condition is met: Everyone alive is sinful, so all Sinners win. The Blackheart victory condition is also met: There are N+1 live Blackhearts, N live Sinners, and nobody else, so Blackhearts are a majority, and so all Blackhearts win as well. The Pure Town faction loses, but there are no remaining players (live or dead) in the Pure Town faction, so no player loses.
Net result: 18 winning players, 0 losing players. Thoughts?
Who Umlauts cooperate ? Seriously.
Sorry folks, I need to make my excuses here - due to work issues I won’t be around till Saturday…will catch up then.
Vote Angel of the North on principle.
You could have restated it in the correct color without editing.
A would be executed, E would be ensinned, C would not. Because C wasn’t last by any metric.
And yes.
What’s the question here?
-
specialed, did you mean to use blue?
-
Also, are you voting to execute or ostracize?
That wasn’t an umlaut; that was a diæresis.