Primarily because of this assertion: the game is all there is to most relationships.
Help me understand why it’s unfair to use this information to reach this particular conclusion.
In almost every thread about dating, love, or lust, he chimes in with some self-defeatist idea that all this stuff boils down to a game thatis hopelessly beyond his capability to understand, so why should he bother, whine whine whine. If this is how he views the whole dating project, it should not be a surprise that he is going to fail at it. Even basic arithmetic seems impossible if you tell yourself over and over again that the rules are incomprehensible.
If finding a mate is a game, it’s not a very complex one. Most of civilization ends up with someone, even if it’s for a short time and ends less than wonderfully. Doug’s fixation on how enormously difficult it is to breech the gulf between him and the opposite sex largely explains why he hasn’t dated, because what’s the likelihood that he’s even trying? And why does it seem like he is always universalizing what really are just his own experiences?
Maybe the last woman he went out with was playing a game he couldn’t negotiate, but is it really that hard to believe that most of the time, failing to meet the right person has more to do it with than playing “the game” the right way?
Well, this is the first I’ve ever read any of his posts, so I don’t have that background. But with that said, I only meant that people aren’t necessarily their message board personas in real life. An anonymous message board brings out those hidden vulnerabilities (and vitriol) in everyone. I know a lot of people who are outwardly happy and confident but really acerbic and bitter online. Everyone’s got some battle scars, right? Who’s to say his real problem isn’t terrible BO or something? However, I will agree that if he actually displays that sort of defeatism in real life, well…that would be a real stumbling block.
I agree with the comment about not relinquishing control to the female you’re chasing after. My approach has worked wonders for me so far. Instead of “hey, would you want to go out with me?” or whatever, try “I think I’m going to take you out.” You might be surprised by how much it works.
This made me lol.
That approach is a double-edged sword. It’s going to work very well with some women, while it will immediately convince a fair number of other women that you’re a complete asshole, even though you may not be at all.
As for control, the person who has control of any relationship is the one who cares the least about it. The idea that the female has control is bs; a female has control only if you’re more interested in her than she is in you. If she has more interest in you than you have in her, she has NO control whatsoever; she can’t force you to be interested in her or to interact with her at all. Nothing to do with gender, except that traditionally, the guys are the ones with the power to initiate, which, by most definitions, would be considered MORE control than having the power to respond.
I hope you don’t think that I’m a complete asshole. 
But you’re right, it won’t work with everyone. But in my experience, dripping self-confidence and assertiveness has worked far better than clingy desperation.
I’d argue that it’s the illusion of not caring that creates control. It’s why guys tell their friends to wait a week before calling.
I thought it was pretty much de rigeur to send a quick one or two line e-mail after a date saying you had a good time. I mean, it’s like an interview, isn’t it?
I agree that part of the e-mail, if necessary, should be, “I had a good time but I don’t think it will work out between us,” but that’s a little harder to say. Not to mention the amount of times women have said that and the man immediately follows up with * WHYYYYYY???* I don’t know if men get that, too.
I agree that self-confidence and assertiveness are better than clingy desperation. I’m just not convinced that there isn’t a middle ground between “Oh, please, I’m begging you.” and “I’m considering gracing you with my presence this Friday.”
But the reality of being willing to walk away is what really gives control. You may think you’ve gained control by waiting a week, but in the meantime, I would have written you off and moved on, if I were the woman. I’d have rather stayed alone than deal with that kind of power playing.
Bear in mind, I am not talking about a week between a date and a second date or even a phone call. I’m talking about a week between a date and a simple “thank you; it was fun.” email, especially if we’d been emailing fairly regularly prior to the first date. It’s thirty seconds of a guy’s life, and does nothing except acknowledge that the date happened and no one was injured during the course of it. If a guy thought so little of me that it doesn’t occur to him to do that, or he was so in to maintaining power that he refused to do something that might actually hint that he thought she was worth thirty seconds of his time, he wasn’t interested enough in me for me to bother with him any further.
Your mileage may, and obviously does, vary.
Bingo!
Well if I ask a woman out, drive her around and pay for everything, and then she’s offended I don’t e-mail her right after I get home to tell her how well I thought our date went…well, then she’s not interested enough in me to bother with her any further either.
Torpor Beast said:
Dude, there’s no telling what you did wrong. Some women are just flaky.
I met a woman, introduced by a mutual friend, hung out at a Renaissance faire for a few hours one evening, again the next day. Ended up winding up having dinner together that night (after driving home separately).
I went out of town, called her when I got back, mentioned wanting to make another date arrangement. We discussed both having busy schedules, and I made a remark about maybe going to a party 3 weeks away. She commented that she was a spontaneous person and didn’t like to make plans that far in advance. Fine.
After about 4 weeks, including not going to that party, and her giving me the not responding to my calls, I finally figured out she wasn’t interested in me. Okay. I was all paranoid about why, what I did wrong, whatever.
Several months later, via the mutual friend, I found out the reason she blew me off was that one phone conversation where I mentioned a party 3 weeks away to think about going to. Yep, that was what turned her off.
Okay, possibly my cluelessness afterwards didn’t help, but that was the trigger event. When I finally found that out, made me think “good riddance”.
Yep, she also pulled the passive aggressive don’t tell you what’s up, just ignore you and hope you’ll go away. When I did manage to get her on the phone, she wouldn’t directly say “I’m not interested”, she gave me “polite” escuses.
Ladies, “polite” excuses aren’t polite. If you’re not interested, say so.
I’d feel the same way about guys and their “I’ll call you”, but I don’t receive those and I don’t do that.
Wow, that’s depressing.
This is why I can’t be bothered with the dating “game.” I live my life, I have great friends, and I enjoy what I do. If I run into someone nice who likes me and wants to date me, that’s great. But this whole game thing? Not for me.
Also, like to mention that everyone here keeps saying that it’s good for the guy to send a text or email the next day saying they enjoyed the date. Wouldn’t you all expect the same from the woman? If that’s the case, her merely not contacting you the next day is a sign of disinterest.
That or the stupid game/ play hard to get to get the man thing again.
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
I’m in pretty much the same boat. (Hope I’m not becomgina one-trick pony, though.) You may say it’s not very complex, but that’s not true for everyone.
I’ve had friends tell me they just don’t get math. “How can you not get it,” I think, “it’s just counting, and numbers, and solving for variables, stuff like that.” Hell, some of it has been around for thousands of years, and most of civilization has been measuring out bridges and monuments, even if they end less than wonderfully.
Different people have blind spots for different things.
I seriously doubt it was that one thing. Odds are she lost interest in the midst of having all those back-to-back dates/meet-ups with you. After experiencing so much of you in that short period of time, the idea of hanging out with you 3 weeks into the future seemed like too much a committment relative to the feelings she had for you at the time. She probably didn’t blow you off because of the 3-week party thing; that was simply the one thing she keyed in on when talking to your mutual friend because it was at the point when you made the request that she realized you guys weren’t anywhere on the same page.
Last year I met a guy while I was having lunch alone at a restuarant. He introduced himself and asked if he could eat with me. It was a ballsy move that could have gone wrong, but because he was reasonably attractive and confidence is a turn on, I was open to his presence. We had a pleasant lunch. He paid the bill even though I insisted we split it. I thanked him and gave him my number, with the expectation that we would just go our separate ways for the rest of the day, and maybe I’d talk to him on the phone tomorrow.
But no. Much like a puppy dog, he followed along behind me, assuming that he could accompany me while I shopped and browsed around at stores and stuff. Being an aggreable person, I let him come along, but it wasn’t the smartest move on his part (or mine, for that matter). I wasn’t able to shop with a person I barely know hovering around me, and it was awkward trying to make conversation at the same time. But I thought, give him a shot. Don’t judge him too prematurely.
Through some unexpected turn of events, we ended up having lunch the very next day. It wasn’t really planned that we would have this “date”, it just sort of happened because I had to return a phone of his that I’d accidently picked up and he’d walked off without the day before (yes, weird I know). Instead of having a brief meal and going our separate ways, he again tried to extend our face-to-face time past what was natural for me. He wanted to know what I was doing the rest of my day, could he come along? With this question, I felt trapped and we hadn’t even been on Date 3 yet. I told him I was busy, silently thinking WTF?
And yes, there was a Date 3. One week later. We saw a movie and had dinner. By that point, I knew I wasn’t into him and it was our last date. It wasn’t just because he had “scared me off”; it was because I knew we lacked chemistry and seeing him three times in less than 7 days made me see that sooner than I would have otherwise. I didn’t want to spend hours on end with him, but he did with me. As evident by how he tried to invite himself over to my place after dinner. Now he probably thought the fatal error was this last move on his part. In actuality, it was everything.
It may be complex for some people, but the mistake is speaking as if this is the case in universally which is what Doug keeps doing (and depressing people in the process).
You act like the woman KNOWS that is the game you are playing. In reality, she has no clue. Women might THINK that the would dismiss any guy that doesn’t respond in a week or so but, in reality, she is just miffed at her loss of some control. Instead of wondering whether to give you a chance or not, she wonders if/when you will call.
The biggest thing about waiting a week is this:
It cuts through the crap. Either she is interested in pursuing a relationship with you or she is not. The ‘game playing’ women are detesting in this thread is really just an attempt by the guy to cut through the crap. Shit or get off the pot 
You wait a week and call and she pulls the ‘he’s kinda nice and might be good. I like him and all but he is a bit short/could be better looking/etc and I think I could do better…but I don’t know…so I will waffle on this for a long time’ crap doesn’t work. She pulls it and you say fine…and don’t call her again. Now, she either needs to give you a try by contacting YOU or let you go…that you will not allow her to waffle…that she needs to actually have some respect. She waffled on you so now if she wants a date…she needs to contact you*.
As for waffling…guys…forget it. Dating is hard enough on the ego as it is. The last thing you need is some maybe/kinda/iffy/might woman bullshit. In your loneliness you might THINK you do…but this type of woman will do more damage to your ego and confidence in the long run. You want a woman that really likes you not some waffle BS.
*My typical response to this was to then reject her…with the possibility of a future date…as in I am going on a biz trip but will contact you when I get back.
you with the face said:
Perhaps, but it’s not like I was the one pushing it. The Renaissance fair thing was about 4 hours one evening, about 3 hours the next afternoon. I didn’t make the dinner thing happen, either. Though in retrospect there was probably a fair amount of [del]pushing[/del] encouragement from the mutual friend. Then I was gone out of town for a week for Thanksgiving, and didn’t call till the following weekend (which she knew).
But if she realized we weren’t on the same page, she should have just said so. Instead she avoided my calls, but when I did talk to her she acted like everything was okay she was just busy. She might have thought she was being kind by letting me get bored and move on or something, but that’s not how I took it. I’m a direct person. I don’t like games, run-arounds, second guessing. If you tell me you’d like to go out with me, then I’ll keep trying to contact you to make that happen. If you tell me you already have plans, I’ll take that as you have plans this time, but keep trying. If you want me to stop calling you, tell me to stop calling you.
You’re not saving my feelings, you’re just stringing me along, and then probably wondering why I can’t “take a hint”. Well, maybe I don’t speak hint. Try words.
It’s a coded signal. People don’t want to say ‘you’re dull and unattractive.’ And it can be challenging to thread the communicative needle to let someone know you’re not intersted, without sounding harsh–though ideally this is what would be done. If someone doesn’t know the code of polite rejection, a friend needs to explain it. If the person still doesn’t get it, they’re not ready for the big boy and big girl world of dating. Is that nice? No, but it’s reality. No sense in cursing reality.
explain it.