The Damage Done

I was hanging out with A2, my lower east side girlfriend. We got into a discussion about how we handle similar situations quite differently. She is very much a social extrovert, and when she feels hurt, betrayed, mistreated, or abandoned by people she regards as friends, it is her instinct to seek them out one-on-one and try to settle up emotionally, to let them know her issues with how they’ve behaved and attempt to get a reconciliation with a acknowledgment or an apology. Often this has the result of her being hurt by them a second time, as she makes herself vulnerable to their dismissive scorn or exasperated disinclination to discuss a behavior they don’t feel like defending.

That is so totally not my inclination at all, I told her. “When someone hurts me, my first reaction is to withdraw”, I explained. “Unless it’s a really special relationship with deep trust, I am quick to think I was silly to believe they really liked me in the first place, and there’s more dignity in a quick retreat, or at least waiting to see if they’ll reach out in a friendly way without me prompting them to reconnect. No way I’m going to corner them and tell them they hurt my feelings, they might already be laughing at me as it is!”

There are a lot of insights to be gained from having someone in your life who isn’t like you, who doesn’t think like you do. Although I started off thinking of myself as giving her advice and recommending my way of handling these situations as an improvement over how she does it, it quickly got me to examining my own, and how defensive it is, how carefully I’ve walled myself off from emotional risks (at least with casual to moderate friendships), and whether my approach is indicative of some pathological adaptations, you know?

Today’s blog post is about the damage done to me (and, by extension, to similar people with similar social experiences and histories) by years of being a social outcast and misfit. So it’s an elaboration of sorts on why I’m doing all this, why it matters.

As hinted at above, when someone hurts me, I am quick to think it wasn’t accidental and wasn’t because of unresolved stuff with that person that we should discuss and work out, but instead means that I was SET UP. That’s rather paranoid, isn’t it? And it means I’ve made a quick leap to the worst possible scenario, since if this is true it means there was no real friendship at all, I had just been fooled into believing there was – for the sole purpose of making me look ridiculous.

How would this setting-up thing work?, you may ask.

Well, in 5th grade you could get invited to a birthday party along with some other kids, but when you show up everyone ridicules you for thinking anyone would want you at their birthday party, and they make fun of the gift that you brought and they tell you you can’t play the games they’re playing, and they make fun of your clothes. And you can decide to keep pushing yourself forward, jumping into the swimming pool anyway (perhaps to get your head held underwater or your eyeglasses hidden) or you can wonder why the heck you thought you wanted to spend time with these people anyway and grab your things and quietly leave, killing time reading comics at the 7-11 so your folks don’t realize you left the party early.

In 8th grade you could let the other kids convince you they’re trying to normalize you and include you, to get you to conform and be like them, and you let them lead you to where they are playing spin the bottle, and it only gradually dawns on you that the real game is to discomfit whatever girls ended up having to kiss you, so as to tease them later, “ha ha you kissed him you kissed the weirdest kid in school”. You notice that if you act playful or interested, she – whoever she is – goes even farther out of her way to express an attitude of “just get it over with”. And maybe you wonder if there wasn’t some genuine attempt to include you and get you to join the others and be more normal, but everyone’s so used to mocking you that if anyone does, everyone else will laugh with them. Being more sophisticated than you were in 5th grade, you are learning options that fall between flouncing off and expecting to be included, and you become good at participating without investing much trust or hope.

In 10th grade when your neighbor is going to be picked up by friends to go off to a pot party, and you ask if you can tag along, you end up waiting in the driveway for an hour before deciding they aren’t going to swing by and let you hop in. The best way, the most mature way to handle these things is to just be accustomed to it and not get upset or surprised or hurt, because what’s the point? Some people don’t want you around. Some people don’t care and would include you but more often than not they’re going to place a higher value on the connections they have with the ones who don’t want you around.

There’s a movie that came out in the 1990s, Dogfight, the premise of which was that a bunch of guys were to compete with each other to see who could bring the ugliest girl to the dance. The main character in the movie is a nice but not conventionally attractive (at least as dressed and made up and styled) girl who initially believes the Marine who invites her to the dance. I recognized the experience when I saw it: yep, that’s being set up. Different specifics, same game.

The damage that gets done to a person is that they learn not to expect much. If a possibility seems attractive and interesting, there’s a suspicious reaction that cuts in before any enthusiasm: what’s the catch? where’s the hook and how does it get set in this one? Over time, that kind of suspiciousness becomes a standoffishness. I’ve often referred to myself as a “shy snob”. A casual and cynical contempt takes root, in which one expects the worst from people and wants less and less from them. Learns to need less and less from people. I tend to think that even some of my facial agnosia (not readily recognizing people’s faces until I have seen them many times) and my difficulty learning people’s names are side-effects of this. A long habit of keeping people at bay.

I wasn’t always that way. There was a time before. I think the last time I made a real effort to be outgoing and connect with people, the last time I set out to shine socially – and be popular, even – was 5th grade. I hadn’t made many friends the previous year, which had been my first year in a new elementary school, and during the summer before 5th grade I made my preparations. I was going to show them who I was and they would like me.

The little things I’d not paid much attention to before, like being taken shopping for new school clothes and 3 ring notebooks and so forth, became things I cared about. I remember picking out a 3 ring notebook that looked like it was made of leather, and had nice subject pockets inside in subdued variations of shaded gray with a pebbled texture. The paper was college ruled. You can tell a man by the little things like the tasteful choice of his notebook. I picked out a comb to keep in the tray under my desk seat so I could keep my hair combed. I selected a miniature appointment book in the same design as the notebook to keep in my back pocket to put notes and appointments in. I obtained a pack of Clorets breath freshener chewing gum for after lunch so as to always have fresh breath. I picked out nice plaid shirts each of which was to go with a specific pair of solid twill pants that they coordinated with. I changed from my typical choice of boring black leather shoe to a rich brown suede Hush Puppies shoe. I was ready to unveil the new me on the first day of class.

All year long, it seemed that the more I tried to show off a bit and be an interesting non-wallflowery character, the more ridicule and hostility I provoked. It was awful. The lesson sank in and I never did that again.

I learned to step back and get out of people’s way. I learned never to ask things of people, lest they blast me with contempt for daring to do so. I unlearned things too. I forgot how to remember names and faces. I forgot to expect good outcomes, pleasant encounters, fun. Then, later, I had to unlearn or relearn all that even though the reasons continued to apply a good portion of the time.

Then there’s the Big Worry, that’s the other primary damage that gets done. You see, I knew, after a few additional years of this, that I was Other, that I was Different. But I didn’t know what made me Other. I wondered about it, I thought about it a lot: was it intelligence, was I just unusually smart and the other kids were so much less so? I wanted to believe that, for presumably obvious reasons, there was a lot of compensatory ego stroking in that particular explanation. But I wasn’t so intelligent that I never encountered other kids who were as smart or even smarter (at least in some ways) and not all the smart kids were singled out for this kind of treatment. Well, was it because I was a nonconformist and everyone else was a fad-following conformist sheep? Oh, I liked that one, too. All that pressure for everyone to be like everyone else, and for what? Why were kids making it practically a moral imperative to have your hair cut the same way or wear the same style of clothes or listen to the same music?

Among all these considerations of what might be making me Different was the fact that I was more like one of the girls than I was akin to the other boys. Yeah, of course I knew that about myself, but it didn’t stand out to me yet as The Reason Why. Kids are verbally abusive and much of what they call each other is chosen not because it fits accurately but because it is derogatory, chosen merely because it is an insulting thing to call another kid. So, yes, I was called faggot and queer, but I was also called things like retardo and skinny little toothpicks and square and weirdo. And keep in mind that not fitting in means not seeing yourself as others see you, at least not very clearly.

So the Big Worry that got planted and grew within me was “something is WRONG with me”. Something unknown, unspecified. Something I could never dismiss because it could be anything, really, from an infinite array of negative traits or impairments or character defects that I hadn’t considered or admitted to myself yet.

A2 says that although I don’t have a multitude of friends, I have very good friends who care a lot about me, and that I have picked well, they are very good people who are kind and intelligent and fun to be with. Like so many social impairments there are flip sides to my situation, strengths and advantages to the shape that my character has taken. And I am who I am in large part because of what I have been through, and I do like being who I am.

I’m still working on my trust issues. I have a pro forma trust approach, I accept the risks and accept in advance whatever may happen. But my expectations are still colored dark. I have had to learn to suspend the paranoid suspicion of being set up. That too is pro forma. I tell myself often that my species is damaged.

I less often confess to the damage that was done to me but yes I want these lessons to cease to be taught.


This is a repost of a blog entry. Cleared with the mods in advance.

Everything you wrote is patently obvious. People are, largely, assholes. They get worse when traveling in packs.

I’m not sure what you are looking for in a response.

All I can think of is, “Yup, you figured out humanity in the 5th grade.”

Consider yourself lucky that you have come across anyone who is worth associating with even on a casual level.

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So, I take it your experiences were similar?

Perhaps you’re saying everyone’s experiences were roughly similar but my reactions or my expectations were unusual?

Actually I’m not sure what you’re saying, except that it feels dismissive and contemptuous.

I didn’t have the most ideal socialization as a youngster. For some reason, right around the 3rd grade, I started drifting away from the other kids to do my own thing. I don’t really know why this happened, but I can speculate. One guess: my poor motor skills kept me from keeping up with the other kids. I sucked at games. Losing all the time isn’t fun, and on top of that, the kids would always tease me for moving “funny”. This only got worse as I got older. Another guess: I didn’t understand all the social rules and nuances of play, so mostly it would be more tiring than fun. It seemed like the other kids were always more sophisticated than I was, which made me feel like an interloper. Lastly, I didn’t like how I’d lose my sense of self when I was with other kids. Although this probably only happened once or twice, it seemed to me that other kids were always getting me in trouble with grown-ups, pushing me to do things I knew were “wrong”. At the very least, I would find myself acting in ways that weren’t “me” just to fit in, and I hated myself for it. So starting around the age of 8, I gradually retired from social life. If it hadn’t been for my twin sister’s friendships, I probably wouldn’t have gone to any birthday parties after the 2nd grade.

So middle school and high school were pretty uneventful for me, at least on the social front. I didn’t go to any dances. I didn’t have any crushes. I didn’t have a BBF. However, I do take consolation in the fact that the bullies didn’t traumatize me. I didn’t want to be in the in-crowd anyway. I saw their attacks as confirmation that I was special, too good for their stupid world. So I don’t have any unfortunate memories of me trying too hard to get people to like me. That said, I’m sure hearing “retard” and “crazy” eleventy-billion times probably did a number on me. I’m not going to front like it didn’t bother me at all. But I think being already emotionally detached mitigated that harm.

Truth be told, the farther I get away from childhood, the less I see my childhood ways showing up in my current behavior. Like, I used to be a sensitive child. If someone criticized anything about me, I’d take it as an indictment of my intelligence (hearing “retard” eleventy-billion times will do that to ya). But now that reflex has diminished; somehow I’ve managed to get over that particular hang-up. As a kid, I used to see friendships as pointless affairs that waste energy and cause unnecessary stress. But now I get them. I’ve been alive for 40 years. I think it would be kinda odd for me to have the same mindset I had as a kid.

So I guess I’m wondering why you put so much weight on your childhood experiences, AHunter3? I mean, sure, I understand that our childhood experiences go on to shape the trajectories of our lives. But you’ve spent many more years on this planet as an adult. It seems to me that a middle age person’s interpersonal style is the result of all their social experiences up to that point, not just what occurred when they were a kid. So what was life like for you in your 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s? Did social interactions not change at all for you over that time?

I would also be quick not to generalize too much about the “misfit” experience. I have an older sister who was a misfit as a kid, though in a much different way than I was. But she has an interpersonal style that is like your friend’s. She’s very extroverted, very emotional, very much into “let me tell you how sad and angry you made me feel when you posted what you posted on your Facebook” drama. I imagine that some of her style is acquired through experience (both childhood and adult), but a large portion is just “her”. That’s just how she is, just like drama-avoidance is “me”. And IMHO, I don’t think either the “retreat” style or “assertive” style is better. Just different.

Yeah, I see your point.

a) When I was going through all this as a child and teenager I swore if I ever figured out what the Otherness / Difference was all about, and it wasn’t somehow my fault, I was going to do something about it. Maybe everyone else goes through that as a child too, I dunno — “I’m gonna show the world”, etc — but it was definitely true for me whether also true for everyone else or not.

b) So in fulfillment thereof I wrote the book…

c) So my blog is about the process of writing, publishing, and marketing the book, plus the elements and issues that the book is about, and the book is focused on this timeframe in my life, and the issues at hand are emergent mostly in those years, or at least somewhat more so than during middle age or a person’s 30s.

My life subsequent to the age of 21 was shaped very strongly by the insights that I reached about my identity around that time; I lived the rest of my life understanding myself in those terms — “out”, in other words. Social interactions changed markedly for the better, although I carried with me the aftereffects of what I’d been through (as described in the OP) and continued to experience social friction which did not simply go away (but now it was a lot more predictable for me, I understood it in a way I had not before).

Does girlfriend A1 know about girlfriend A2?

Yes, and they both know about A3 (aka allthegood here on SDMB), and they’ve all met and sometimes A1 and A3 or (less often) A1 and A2 hang out, but A2 and A3 don’t really get along. The “A” nomenclature was invented by A3 on her own journal, to preserve anonymity, and I went with it.

A1’s other boyfriend is a great host and friendly and welcoming whenever I’m over there, A2’s other boyfriend and I never met before she split up with him, and A3’s two other boyfriends were both fascinating people and it’s sad that those relationships didn’t last. I’m poly (and bring it up often enough to annoy people here on the board) and I’ve been with the same three people since 2010.

I didn’t thank you for sharing your own experience, and I want to do so now.

I totally sympathize and understand your motivation. But the more of these blog entries you share with us, the more I start feeling that 1) you treat your Otherness as this grand unifying theory of everything about you and 2) your experience with Otherness makes you an expert in Otherness, rather than just an expert in your individual experience with Otherness. These “feelings” kind of rub me the wrong way due to my own personal hang-ups.

It would be interesting to see how many other people who grew up marginalized or “othered” have similar experiences to yours. Because I surmise that there are a whole lot of ways people cope with “otherness.” I don’t think it is necessarily true that it takes being a misfit to understand why you see the world the way you do. Also, I guess I don’t like that you’ve kind of set A2’s interpersonal style as the “norm” and “healthy” and yours as “abnormal” and “damaged”. It has been my experience that most people tend to take a more passive-aggressive position since we are all culturally trained not to indulge our “butthurts” too much. People say they like emotional honesty, but it kinda sucks to hear “you hurt my feelings!” all the time, and it also sucks having to confront people over slights that may very well be unintended. So I question the premise that you are “damaged” or even all that different from the rest of us, even though I agree that your socialization wasn’t ideal and you were truly victimized. Perhaps if you gave a couple of examples of how your interpersonal style has been counterproductive or harmful, I would understand better.

Well yeah, what you describe is the basic outline for childhood for anyone who isn’t at the peak of the bell curve. I agree with you 100%, but other than that I’m not sure what your aim was in creating the post. Are you just sharing your experience or were you looking for specific feedback or ???

Fair enough! We’ve all heard the aphorism about how if the only tool at your disposal is a hammer, every freaking thing in sight starts to look like a nail.

My specific understanding (which I think of as a social theory, just to add to the pretentiousness of it all) of my specific Otherness and of the entire social system of my entire species as viewed from the perspective of that Otherness and my understanding thereof… yes I am indeed arrogant enough to approach the entirety of every fucking thing as if I have special insights on it. This is my hammer, by god, and yes, guilty as charged, every aspect of society looks like yet another nail.

In my defense, many a social theory before me & mine has claimed to Explain Everything, including marxism and feminist theory and freudian psychoanalysis, and to some limited degree they do — although not necessarily compellingly well, or fail to explain everything to everyone compellingly well at any rate. Usually what comes out of them, or at least out of the good ones, is that a few people think they really do Explain Everything, a lot of people think they explain A Lot of Stuff, a bunch of additional people think they Have Some Good Points, and more than a few dismiss them as Unmitigated Bullshit.

To summarize, I plead guilty to arrogance and a really conceited notion of the overwhelming importance of my ideas and understandings. I have enough self-insight to recognize that but, having recognized it (and even laughed about it more often than you might guess) I continue to look upon the ideas and I go “Yep, this is really it”.

Yes, indeed it would. I want to hear them all and see how the pieces all fit together.

I actually didn’t mean to imply that, and it’s not what I think. I don’t think hers are the norm, nor do I think hers to be healthier than mine, even, let alone the definition of “healthy”. It’s just that I was in the midst of correcting her faulty approach by explaining my obviously far-better one when it hit me that mine has some highly problematic characteristics too.

The blog post was focused on “the damage done” (hence the title) but anyone who reads much of my stuff (either on SDMB or on my blog) knows I’m more often pompous and egotistically proud of how my mind and feelings-processing works and, far from seeing myself mostly as perpetual victim, tend to act like all that pressure made a rare diamond of me or something. The last line of the blog post reads “I less often confess to the damage that was done to me but yes I want these lessons to cease to be taught”. The boastful confident stuff is probably best understood as counterbalancing compensation, to be honest here, but I think I’ve got it in a good balance and it works.

Do I think gender marginalization is a specific describable experience (even with variations) that is experienced as traumatic by those who go through it? Hell yeah. Do I think everyone else has a childhood of emotional bon-bons and happy smiley face cheer and little-pony rainbows? Hell no. Everyone’s messed up by this, cisgender and straight and trans and gay and intersex and bi and so on and so forth. I’ve just got a different vantage point to observe and explain it from, that’s all.

I’m a regular blogger, pumping out a blog post once a week. The purpose of the blog is to document my attempts to get my book published, to discuss the general issues around gender and sexuality and the specific identity I call “genderqueer”, and to discuss the events in my own life that fed into the writing of the book, why I wrote it, and why I want it to be published and so on. I got permission to echo the blog posts on the SDMB. I’d say I am sharing my experience and viewpoint, and seeking general feedback of whatever sort I can elicit.

I’m curious, A3, about how old you are (if you don’t mind sharing).

IMHO, many folks – such as myself-- Stop Giving a Fuck what other people think about them in their mid-40s to 50s. My personal observation is that people think about other peeps’ feelings, hopes dreams, butthurts about 98.777% less than we think they do.

I have a dear friend around my age (50) who gets paralyzed when she thinks someone is upset or angry with her, these are often miniscule events/words that most people probably wouldn’t even recall, much less think of them as adversarial. It’s actually kind of manipulative on her part, as it constantly makes her the center of attention because her feelings are always hurt. I put up with it because she has so many great qualities (and I don’t apologize to her for absurd things).

I was a dorky, bullied, cast-out gay kid. Many of us turn out to be happy, smart, charming, confident grown-ups.

Just my .04 cents.

Hey, Jennshark. I’m 58.

As I said above:

I’m a happy, smart, charming (sort of) and confident grown-up myself. But I am keeping a promise I made to myself. I don’t mean I feel obligated to do so, but just because there are things I don’t feel now doesn’t mean I don’t remember how they once felt.

When I was 20 I cared what other people thought of me.
When I was 40 I stopped caring what other people thought of me.
And when I was 60 I realized that other people weren’t thinking of me in the first place.

AH3, could you be on the Aspergers spectrum? What you wrote sounds like it. I’m in my mid-50s and have recently been diagnosed. Even though I wasn’t picked on as a kid myself, it’s common for ASD people when they were kids.

Your wife must really love you …

Asperger’s wasn’t a “thing” in 1973-1980 when the events described took place. And subsequent to that, for reasons detailed elsewhere, I haven’t had much appetite for accumulating additional psychiatric or neurocognitive diagnoses.

I have a regular reader of my blog who is an “aspie” who very often says he can relate to my experiences, although in other places he testifies to a profound lack of awareness or interest in the expectations of others that kept affecting me.

Heh!

No, I have never participated in the institution of marriage. It’s not a poly institution and I’m not among those who wish to knock the walls out and modify it to accommodate poly. I think of marriage much as most people probably do: a relationship of committed exclusivity between two loving individuals who wish for permanence and stability.

I tend to seek relationships of committed involvement with other individuals for mutual loving and involvement with no exclusivity. Unlike many cis hetero people, I don’t have one category of people with whom I form sexual relationships and a different category of people with whom I would be best friends instead. For me they tend to be the same people and the presence or absence of sexual involvement is probably less definitive of the relationship, so poly works quite well for me.

Or, as I put it in a Facebook post last month,

I’d suggest getting the book The Complete Guide to Asperger’s Syndrome by Tony Attwood. See if you recognize yourself. It’s not to accumulate a diagnosis, it’s for helping you understand yourself (if that is you).