The Democratic president of the United States of America, the guy who ran against Donald Trump and just launched his campaign to do so again, just called someone "an illegal" in the State of the Union address

The BBQ Pit
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FWIW, which is very little: words do matter; actions and policies matter more.

Yes this off the cuff response to an idiot used their word in the response that made a very cogent point. Moves the response down from an A to a B+. Room to improve.

Immigration policy under Biden also is a solid B with room to improve. Rs though have completely failed that subject, horribly and evilly under Trump’s term and failing to turn in something that would have been passing, under Trump’s direction.

Flip side to the impolite word use: it isn’t exactly a Sister Soulja moment but I do wonder if the use of a very unwoke phrase might not appeal to some not in his camp?

My WAG is that the astroturfed outrage may actually win Biden some cred where he needs it.

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It’s going to stay in the news no matter what Biden or his Administration say or do. Because the 24-hour news channels–including CNN and MSNBC–have a LOT of time to fill. And Biden really didn’t give them anything else to latch onto in that SotU address.

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Anything else to slam him for, you mean?

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Yes–even the aforesaid CNN and MSNBC. They can’t look themselves in the mirror unless they’re equally hard on Both Sides. Since Both Sides are equally legitimate (according to them).

None of those anchors would be willing under any circumstances to say ‘Biden had a widely-praised performance. When he repeated heckler M.T. Greene’s word back to her while replying, some thought he was expressing his own preferred term for immigrants who lack documentation. But this is clearly not the case, based on all the years of sound we have from Biden.’

They’d sooner cut off their own hand than be fair in this way. They desperately want people to say ‘I saw him or her slamming Biden so I know he or she is equally hard on Both Sides.’

It’s a revolting feature of our profit-seeking media.

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I’m totally pissed at Trump. Again. If I didn’t hate him already…aaarggghhh!!

That idiot said, in a news bite I caught, some words Biden said and stuttered it out. Making fun of him. With his ugly little mouth he once again showed how insensitive he his.

Stuttering is a real handicap. People who suffer with it are not fond of being made fun of. Biden has really done well, as I understand it, with his stutter.
Public speaking is hard for the best speakers. It’s more so if you have or have had an impediment in your speech patterns.

Trump is just awful. So awful.

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Plus one

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James Fallows has watched a lot of State of the Union addresses and has even helped write a few. Here is the excerpt from passage referenced in the OP, along with Fallows’ remarks in brackets:

To my knowledge, no Republican has apologized or demurred from Trump’s expression, “Poison in the blood of our country.” But yeah, both sides.

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Okay. Reading the transcript my B+ was harsh. A-

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In the excerpt, I’m not seeing Fallows’ remarks. I went to the link, and was reading the article with considerable interest – but a short way into it I ran into a subscription-only notice, and couldn’t see any more.

Do they provide gift links? and if so, could you please post one here?

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Intent matters. When we chide someone for calling someone else an “illegal”, the correction should be moderated based on their intent.

The use of “an illegal” should only be occasion for serious correction if the person is implying that some people deserve harsh legal treatment (or worse) because of how they got here, or that something should be done about “them” as a class. Also with undertones that, even though they may have used a legal process, that somehow it’s not legitimate, and that they’re likely to be “illegal” in different ways.

Biden clearly didn’t intend to slur anyone. It’s obtuse to pretend he did. He should probably be corrected that this isn’t how we talk now, but it’s silly to pretend like this is some grave crisis of decorum. Old guy, means well, uses wrong words.

A lot of this is analagous to “why do certain people get to say the N-word”. Just like people, there are no words born inherently good or bad. Intent matters, and the power relationship matters.

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Indeed. Which is why other posts in this thread have pointed out the context in which Biden used the term; and I thought had made it clear that while I think Biden shouldn’t have used it without obvious quote marks, the rest of the context most definitely IMO moderates the correction.

If you seriously think I’m “pretending” that Biden intended to slur anyone, I suggest you go back and read my posts.

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I genuinely don’t know, either. You’re clearly someone who’s insightful and thoughtful and who I’d otherwise enjoy a conversation with; but you also hold almost everyone here in obvious sneering contempt and act like a giant douchebag about it. Are you enjoying that? Are you unable to help yourself?

If you wrote more carefully, and were able to treat people with respect, I’d understand why you came back to this place. But without doing that, the only reason I can imagine that you’d come back is that you’re getting some perverse acidic satisfaction out of shitting on people.

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and if the OP can read the excellent post Measure for Measure made and then apologize, I’ll take back calling him a shit stirrer. which I am not expecting to happen.

context is so important!

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Way too late to edit. That should read “Which is why my other posts in this thread”

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Read.
The.
Transcript.

What’s blindingly obvious here is that you’re a fucking moron.

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I couldn’t find a gift link. I originally opened up the link in a private window, but failed to scroll down enough. Moving forward I’ll check my links more carefully and add a (sub req, beyond ~1st 1000 words) where appropriate.

In the OP’s defense, I think Biden’s use of the word “Illegal” was more jarring audibly, than in the transcript.

Still. Biden echoed MTG’s use of the word “Illegal”, in order to pivot to the question, “But how many of thousands of people are being killed by legals?” The answer of course is that illegal immigrants as a group commit less crime than native born Americans do. Right wing bigots focus on anecdotes, because that’s all they have. To the anecdote, Biden said, " To her parents, I say: My heart goes out to you. Having lost children myself, I understand."

I don’t recall much of Jimmy_Chitwood’s other posts, and I’m willing to assume that posts like the OP aren’t a habit of his. I would say that if he’s done something like this three times on this message board, he needs to reflect a little. Otherwise I’d give it a pass. His vitriol was in response to some rather strong mockery from myself after all.

I agree with this. I think it’s significant that Biden apologized for echoing MTG’s use of the word illegal, while MTG did not. I’ll go further and note that policy is the slow boring of hard boards, and Biden’s words represented a reaching out to his opponents, or rather the base of his opponents. Generally speaking you don’t persuade people by acting all huffy. Persuasion happens in pivots and baby steps.

Those interested in my more serious thoughts about immigration policy can go here:

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I was watching live online, and agree with that; in particular, I think, because the words of the heckling he was answering weren’t clear to me, so I didn’t realize at the time that he was handing MTG’s own words back to her.

But my reaction even then was tempered by some of what else Biden then proceeded to say.

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This deserves emphasis.

The group that agrees with Biden’s take that follows, mostly those who voted for him last time, are smart enough to listen to what followed. Most of the speech was aimed at firing up that group, showing them why they should come out for him this time, in addition to voting against his predecessor. Some number of them associate that word with use in other contexts so would prefer it being avoided, but they heard the following sentences, and enjoyed the MTG slap down.

The target group being spoken to though was not them. And that group would have been possibly put off by using obvious air quotes or switching up to “undocumented migrants” or such. Again a little outrage against Biden’s unwoke word choice helps make his very woke message digestible to that group. Deflate their outrage a bit.

Election success needs undermining the intensity of those who might vote against you just as much as it requires ramping up the intensity of your support and convincing the mythical swing voter.

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I think it’s perfectly reasonable to express your distaste for what Biden said, and leave it at that. I agree with you and Jimmy - it was a horrible thing to say and I wish he hadn’t.

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I wish he’d shot down MTG with something like