[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Apparently well fed, what is your basis for well-behaved, intelligent and pleasant, besides how they are portrayed on a pro-Duggar TV special? The family website says each plays the piano and violin, it doesn’t say any of them are prodigies. Do you think the Duggar’s are going to let it be known if any of them are demons? 18 kids and not one is a terror?
[/QUOTE]
Well, they appeared on the Today show this morning, and Matt and Meredith spoek to several of the kids. I grant you that’s not the same as the application of a controlled Stanford-Binet test, but I’ve seen kids (and adults) on Today that didn’t come across as well as the Duggar children.
That’s two different shows – are they BOTH “pro-Duggar?” In any event, that’s sufficient evidence to establish the claim prima facie; the burden should now shift to you to show any contradictory evidence.
[QUOTE=meenie7]
No, it’s a disgustingly selfish example of two complete blockheads who’ve decided to raise a brood of slaves who never get to experience a real childhood.
I’m not impressed by the violin and piano stuff, either, because I’m sure not all the kids wanted to devote the time needed to learn those instruments, which is considerable, but they were all forced to, because they have shitty parents who think of them as property with no rights, who only exist to do slave labor for them and make them look good on TV and in pictures and articles.
[/QUOTE]
See, this is “Great Debates,” now. Which means that when you make a claim, you have to have some evidence to adduce in support of that claim. You can’t simply say, “Well, it’s my opinion,” now.
So - do you believe that ANY child learning a musical instrument has “shitty parents who think of them as property with no rights?” If not, what’s the distinction here?
[QUOTE=meenie7]
No, it’s a disgustingly selfish example of two complete blockheads who’ve decided to raise a brood of slaves who never get to experience a real childhood.
[/QUOTE]
Buddy…You haven’t lived until you had to raise a 7 acre garden for my Mom, cut wood for my step-father, and do general farm what-not for my Grandfather. Slaves? Those people aren’t slaves. Slaves were people who were treated as less than dirt. They are teaching their children lessons that my “chores” taught me: A good work ethic, responsibility, how to rebuild an engine, how to get a breech birth out of a cow, and many other life lessons.
They love their kids.
Guess what? When you get out into the real world, your boss makes you do things you don’t want to do either. Once again, they are learning a life lesson about work ethic, and gaining a couple of valuable skills as well.
So - do you believe that ANY child learning a musical instrument has “shitty parents who think of them as property with no rights?” If not, what’s the distinction here?
[/QUOTE]
Of course, all parents who make their kids take piano lessons are eeeevil. I can’t imagine anything worse you could do to a child.
[QUOTE=Bricker]
That cite seems to focus on world-wide risks, with particular attention to third-world countries.
Since we know Mrs. Dugger is in the United States, perhaps we could find some sense of numbers that are more relevant to her situation and standard of health care she receives.
[/QUOTE]
It specifically says that risk increases with the number of births. Since level of care presumably doesn’t change based on how many kids you’ve had, you can’t really dismiss it.
Anyway, it’s the only relevant statistic I could find.
[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
Michelle Duggar is expecting her 18th child on New Years Day. Hasn’t the she set some king of record for American motherhood by now? Of course Discovery Health is producing another [del]sideshow[/del] reality show. At least the “jurisdiction swap” sounds interesting. So, what will they j-name this one. They’ve already gone through; Joshua, Jennifer, Jana, John-David, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy-Anna, Jeremiah, Jedidiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, and Johannah.
My wag is Jenna for a girl and Jesus for a boy.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bricker]
So - do you believe that ANY child learning a musical instrument has “shitty parents who think of them as property with no rights?” If not, what’s the distinction here?
[/QUOTE]
No, of course not. What I said was that I seriously doubt that every single one of those 18 kids really, really wanted to learn the piano and the violin both. I wanted to play the viola as a kid, so my parents let me and I enjoyed it. But my sister never wanted to learn any musical instrument and my parents did not make her pick up the viola too so we could be a matched set of fiddlers.
[QUOTE=Spit]
Buddy…You haven’t lived until you had to raise a 7 acre garden for my Mom, cut wood for my step-father, and do general farm what-not for my Grandfather. Slaves? Those people aren’t slaves. Slaves were people who were treated as less than dirt. They are teaching their children lessons that my “chores” taught me: A good work ethic, responsibility, how to rebuild an engine, how to get a breech birth out of a cow, and many other life lessons.
[/QUOTE]
Doing chores is one thing – I had to do chores when I was a kid too. Being forced to parent one of your siblings is entirely another. None of those kids chose to live in a family with dozens of siblings. That was their parents’ fault and therefore their responsibility. If they don’t have the time to parent that many kids, they damn well shouldn’t have had them.
[QUOTE=meenie7]
Doing chores is one thing – I had to do chores when I was a kid too. Being forced to parent one of your siblings is entirely another. None of those kids chose to live in a family with dozens of siblings. That was their parents’ fault and therefore their responsibility. If they don’t have the time to parent that many kids, they damn well shouldn’t have had them.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, they’re not PARENTING a sibling…give me a break. They are helping with normal household tasks. They get themselves dressed in the morning and then help one little brother or sister get dressed. They help cook dinner. Stuff like that. Teenagers have had more responsibilities than that since the dawn of time. All an argument like that tells me is that kids these days are too damn spolied.
[QUOTE=meenie7]
No, of course not. What I said was that I seriously doubt that every single one of those 18 kids really, really wanted to learn the piano and the violin both. I wanted to play the viola as a kid, so my parents let me and I enjoyed it. But my sister never wanted to learn any musical instrument and my parents did not make her pick up the viola too so we could be a matched set of fiddlers.
[/QUOTE]
Ahh, I see.
Is it your view that every parent that requires their child to learn a musical instrument, even absent interest from the child, is committing some sort of quasi-abusive act?
[QUOTE=ENugent]
Yes, I would say that providing an actual cite would tend to go with “Q.E.D.”, while providing handwaving and “It stands to reason!” would be associated with… whatever. The fact is you couldn’t be bothered to find a cite until someone went looking for one for you.
[/QUOTE]
He doesn’t need a cite for the fact that multiplying 2 numbers >1 together gives you a number greater than either.
[QUOTE=Bricker]
What is it about this story that threatens you so?
[/QUOTE]
What makes you think I feel threatened? If I felt threatened, I’d go down there and staple it shut myself. This is merely annoyance.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
It specifically says that risk increases with the number of births. Since level of care presumably doesn’t change based on how many kids you’ve had, you can’t really dismiss it.
[/quote]
Sure, except that I contend that health care that’s normal in the US would tend to flatten, if not elimiate, the curve created by the sub-standard medical care often found in the Third World.
I don’t doubt your good faith in searching – I just doubt that the cite says, strongly, what what you claim it says.
