Just adding my voice to this. Sorry you’re dealing with this DooWah.
Do you know for sure that Stu and Barbara had a platonic relationship? Reading between the lines, I would think they were romantic. She certainly meant a lot to him if he left her $250k in life insurance. If that’s the case, then it wasn’t like she was freeloading for 20 years. They would have been essentially living as spouses.
How old is Julia? Is she 20?
I would think the court would consider Julia as the best choice to be executor. She has a closer personal relationship with him and is local and would be most aware of his assets. It will be difficult to handle the estate from 1500 miles away. The executor has a lot of flexibility to process the estate. It would not be unusual to take a year or longer to distribute the assets, including the house.
How much do you think the house is worth? The problem with waiting a year to sell is that a lot can happen in that time that changes the value of the house. One thing you might want to do is get an estimate of the current value of the house in its current condition–let’s say it comes out to $500k. You tell Julia that you’re willing to wait, but you want $250k when the house sells. This protects you from the house going down in value and not being involved in any decisions to improve the house. If they want to put $50k into renovations, it’s no issue for you. You get $250k at the sale regardless of the sale price. If the house only sells for $300k, then you get $250 and they get $50k. But if the house sells for $750k, then you only get $250k.
Sorry for your loss, Diddy.
It is possible that Julia made the lawyer appointment merely to be helpful. It had to be done anyway (I assume), so perhaps she was just trying to contribute to the process.
I wouldn’t want to boot a 70-year-old to the curb either, but a year seems way out of line to me (particularly knowing that she just got a big payday). I like the negotiation angle offered upthread (offer 2 months, compromise at 4-6).
I’m curious as to what happened to Julia’s mother? Is she still alive? Still around? Did she live with your dad at some point? Does she know of his passing?
mmm
mmm
100%. Barbara herself has said that many times, and while he sometimes talked about her as one would a wife (“Barbara reminded me to take my medicine”, “Barbara said I can’t eat red meat anymore”, typical oldish man stuff), I have no reason to doubt her. Trust me, I know it’s weird. And for years after it started, in my 20s, I had trouble explaining it to people. “Wait, your dad lives with the mother of his ex-wife?” “Yeah…wanna get some pizza?”
23, something like that. She just graduated college. I’m 40.
I wish it was that much. Early estimates indicate it’s probably more like 100k. Which, you could say, “Why is this guy getting all worked up over a house that’s only worth $100,000, that he would only get half of anyway?”, but to me, it’s more like “Barbara is getting such a large chunk of the insurance, that the house is really all I have”. Again, not about the money so much as it is about being fair, and if Dad’s master plan was to leave that much insurance to Barbara because the house and car would be going to his kids, then I’d like to start that process as soon as possible, not wait another year letting her live off his dime, so to speak.
She is still around, but she lives with her boyfriend about 90 minutes away from my dad’s house. They did live together when they were married, of course, but that didn’t last long. As far as I understand it, she either didn’t fight very hard or lost custody of Julia when they split, which must mean she was really unfit, for the father to win custody, especially one with his background and work hours. She does know he passed, but as far as I know is not entitled to or expecting anything. But I would be surprised if she doesn’t end up with any of Barbara’s payout money, in a roundabout way.
Trust me, this is all going in my novel or play someday; I just haven’t decided which.
Do you think he has any other major assets? If his house is $100k, I’m guessing that there wasn’t much in bank and retirement accounts. With his estate being small, it could get even smaller once bills need to get paid. If there’s not a lot of cash, then assets such as the car and house might need to get sold just to pay the bills.
One other problem if the estate doesn’t have a lot of cash is that it will be harder to buy you out. Even if they wanted to buy out your 1/2 of the house, where would the money come from? It’s easy if the estate has $50k in cash since the executor can just direct it to you. But if it comes from Julia or Barbara, that’s not money from the estate. There might be tax implications. It would be like if I paid you $50k, you’d have to declare that as income.
It’s statements like this that tell me that you are not thinking clearly. Your grandmother put out money to cover the estate’s expenses. Julia’s grandmother wants to live in a house she has no right to rent-free after getting a quarter-million dollars. The two situations are not even remotely similar. Please get an attorney TODAY!!!
Okay, had a 30-minute conversation with a lawyer today, from my father’s state. He was very friendly, informative, and sympathetic. Unfortunately, he advised me that the state has a Homestead Law or something like that, and she (Barbara) cannot be forced to leave and can basically move out whenever she wants. Even though she’s not on the deed, it is her established home and as long as she pays the bills (starting now, I mean), she is allowed to stay.
He also said the court would most likely appoint Julia as the executor, since she lived in the house all her life and lives in a neighboring state. Personally, I have no problem with that, since if I can’t sell the house then I really have no reason or desire to be executor.
I’m just looking at all these bills coming in ($8,000 from the funeral home, $15,000 worth of credit card debt, etc.) and thinking “I don’t have a way of paying these because I’m not getting much of the insurance, and I can’t sell the house”. That’s the only reason I wanted her out more quickly. But he said the credit card bills are not our responsibility, and suggested Barbara pay 80% of the funeral bills. Not sure if that’s going to happen (probably not), but right now I think I’m forced to just sit tight and let things unfold as they may…
Interesting thread - and fucked up situation. (As well as sorry for your loss.)
Sounds like you are well enough off that you don’t NEED to maximize your proceeds from the estate, but that your main concern is that you not be held responsible for expenses. Having a local lawyer who handles stiffs and gifts is the best you can do. His services aren’t going to be too expensive. He will provide a dispassionate, expert opinion.
You are likely warranted in wishing to have it known that you want your needs to be represented, even though you intend to be reasonable. Your interests are NOT the same as Julia’s and Barbara’s. Even if Julia is named executor, she will have legal obligations of fairness, responsibility, disclosure, etc. Simply adopt the position that you want things done fairly and efficiently consistent with the law, and expect accurate accountings.
Good luck. And be prepared for your most reasonable efforts to be interpreted badly!
Having gone through something similar with my dad’s ex-wife I would HIGHLY recommend that you get another executor because an executor has a fiduciary interest to the heirs and it sounds like Julia may not act in your best financial interest. It is also very clear that you need to take a step back and not deal with this without sound legal advice and a plan. Just from your description it sounds like you are still not aware of what to do or not do.
What state did your dad live in? Every Homestead Law I have ever heard of (IANAL) refers to an OWNER’s home that they are living in. I am not aware of any Homestead Law that allows someone to continue living in a house rent-free & lease-free** against the owner’s wishes.
**Except for tenant laws but even then they apply to proper eviction not “you get to freeload off this other person as long as you want”.
That’s a good point. She may be required to start paying rent if she wants to stay there. Otherwise, what’s to prevent her from living in the house forever without paying anything? This has to be a common situation where a homeowner dies and a long-term guest is also living in the house. A house has significant maintenance expenses and someone needs to pay for them.
Maybe the solution is for Barbara to buy the house. She has $250k in cash. She buys the house for $100k, stays in it a year, and then sells it for $100k. You get your inheritance, she gets to stay in the house and gets her money back when she sells. You could even sell it to her at at discount like 80%.
No, Barbara would definitely pay everything from here on out, no question. It’s just that I was hoping she would exit sooner so I could sell the house and get the money, in order to pay back these bills and just plain move on more quickly. She certainly doesn’t expect me or anyone else to pay the general upkeep/utility bills while she stays there, especially after receiving 80% of the insurance money. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I would really rather not say what state he was in, but basically the lawyer said if she has established that that was her home for 20 years, you can’t just go in there and force her to move out without just cause (such as fraud or coercion).
So now the argument between me and Julia is about who should pay for the funeral expenses. I think it should be Barbara, but I want her to offer to pay it. I don’t want to “force” her or even ask her to. I think she should do it out of goodwill because she’s ending up with so much money. Julia, of course, disagrees and thinks she and I should split it from our 10%.
Have none of you ever seen “The Andy Griffith Show?” No, you can’t kick Aunt Bea to the curb. But you can’t let her establish lifetime rights to the house either.
IANAL, (and you need a better one than whoever you spoke to).
Things I nonetheless strongly suspect to be true:
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Letting her stay for one year may be worthwhile IN RETURN FOR a signed lease with a nominal rent (seriously, make it like $100 per month, doesn’t matter) with an agreed-upon end date. Also state her responsibility for paying any State or local property taxes, utility bills, and all landscaping and upkeep. Get them tied up in negotiating small items of responsibility. Put three signature lines “Tenant” “Owner” and “Co-Owner.” By signing, they will be acknowledging their roles.
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You should then get homeowner’s insurance on the house.
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Is the car worth anything?
If so, check the registration and insurance are being updated and paid.
If not, make it part of your sweetening deal for the house. Familiar things are important to Aunt Bea right now, so it would be a kindness. -
How healthy is Aunt Bea? Is there any concern that she’ll get injured or disabled while she’s living in your house?
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Check the Zillow listing for the property. It’s not the most accurate thing, but it will give you some idea of the value trend for the house. Will you gain or lose by waiting to sell? Are local houses on the market for a long time? What are comparable places going for?
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How much do you know about the state of repair on the house? Is the roof ok? Any plumbing issues? Any flooring or stairs that could cause a negligence charge if somebody tripped on them?
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Push for a third-party executor. Yours and Julia’s relationship is unlikely to survive otherwise.
OK, if Julia becomes executor, then your only role is beneficiary. You’re legally not responsible for anything. You have a right to your fair share of the estate, and can (if push comes to shove, which hopefully it won’t) take legal action against the executor if you’re not getting your fair share.
But I would urge you to not pay another bill related to the estate. Barbara’s getting the bucks, and Julia’s getting the authority. Let them take care of the bills.
I’m not sure why you feel that way; he pretty much agreed with you.
Yes, the car is ours as well as the house; no idea how much it’s worth yet.
Aunt Bea/Barbara is…ehhhh. I would say if she ends up living alone for most of the year (i.e. if her sons don’t live with her at some point, which is a possibility), I would say there’s maybe a 10% chance something could happen. Arthritis, doesn’t drive often, etc., but no heart problems or serious medical issues that I’m aware of.
Good advice. I did, and it’s listed at more than twice the value I was given. Not sure how accurate that is, though.
As I said upthread, Julia has started asking her uncles (Barbara’s sons) to make improvements on the house, and will most likely have to pay them something. That was one of my points of contention, that I wished she had told me before she asked them to do that. But, I also recognize she’s just trying to increase the value of the house for when we do sell it. But in the meantime, who pays for the improvements, there’s the rub.
Yeah, I definitely haven’t paid anything yet. The bills are sitting on my desk. And hopefully we won’t be responsible for the credit card debt. I’m currently looking into how that all works.
Re the credit card debt (and any other debts your dad owed at the time of his passing):
You aren’t responsible for them. Neither is Barbara. Nor Julia, in her personal capacity.
Your father’s estate is responsible for those debts. Your dad’s estate is a separate legal entity of its own. Everything he owned at the time of his death belongs to the estate, unless it was held jointly with someone else (from what you say, this doesn’t apply to anything here) or was an insurance policy with named beneficiaries (which does apply).
The executor will send death certificates to his creditors, so they know he’s passed, and can bill the estate instead. (If you’re getting any of these bills, you can do this yourself if you want to, but you’d want to let them know that no executor has been appointed yet.)
The estate stays in existence as a separate entity until the bills are paid and the assets disbursed. (This would include the house.)
Zillow is usually a little optimistic, in my experience. They’re probably working with the tax rolls and recent local sales. They have no idea whether your house has overgrown landscaping or a sagging roof or whatever else might cause it to bring in less than other houses that have recently sold in the area.
The property tax evaluation, on the other hand, often underestimates the current worth.
You guys aren’t going to believe this. I just got my certified copy of the death certificate in the mail (they all went to Barbara/Julia, and they mailed me one), and my eyes just about popped out of my head as I read the marital status column:
Married.
What?
Spouse: Barbara.
WHAT.
So I texted Julia.
What’s this about being married?
Oh, I thought you knew, was the reply. They presented themselves as a married couple to everyone but family.
Well then how the fuck would I know, I thought. Um, no. I mean…I’m stunned. I had no idea. Did they sleep in the same bed?
A logical question, as far as I was concerned. We’re all adults here, aren’t we? Apparently not, because Julia went off on how I was being inappropriate and should show a little respect for the woman who raised her. She was done talking, and good night. I retaliated; not one of my proudest moments, but now my pulse was racing and I needed her to know that I had every right to be shocked by the fact that they were living a lie to their family, and that she should take that self-righteous anger and enjoy sleeping with it tonight.
This will probably be Act II of my play, I’m guessing.
Well, at this point, you have already contacted a lawyer. If you haven’t done so already (and if you care about not getting screwed out of any inheritance), you would be foolish not to retain him (or another lawyer) to represent your interests.
That lawyer will know whether common-law marriage has any validity in the unnamed state, and whether their relationship qualifies.
AFAIK, RTFirefly is spot on. Don’t know why you think you would be responsible for any funeral expenses you did not personally agree to and contract for. You aren’t likely to be thrown into debtor’s prison either.
Julia and Barbara clearly are not engaging in full disclosure, and are not acting in your best interests. If you choose to post here instead of retaining expert legal advice and representation, well, you deserve to get taken advantage of.
First of all, calm down. I’m retaining legal advice and posting here; it can be done, you know.
Second of all, the reason I’m thinking I might be responsible for any funeral expenses I did not personally agree to and contract for is because my 94-year-old grandmother (my father’s mother) paid for it, and she deserves to be reimbursed. My aunt (my father’s sister) sent me the bill, with the assumption that once the insurance money kicks in we can pay her back.
Obviously I can stand on ceremony and scream “I did not accept these conditions!”, but what good will that do? The bill still needs to be paid, and if Barbara isn’t going to step forward and offer to pay all of it or 80% of it, then I need to pay it, end of story. Otherwise the only person it’s hurting is my own grandmother, and I’m not doing that to her.