Forgot to add - “want” has got nothing to do with it, does it ? He *already has *the power. I’m just happy he’s using it for good.
I am a big fan of The Authority, BTW.
Ok, I was about to say something about that, but it’s a different Authority, so that’s ok I guess.
As an American civilian, yes, it does bother me. But permitting a genocide would be a far greater evil. Democracies do not always make wise, just or peaceful decisions. If there had been a superhero around, wouldn’t you have wanted him or her to intervene at Gnadenhutten? At Wounded Knee? At My Lai? At Abu Ghraib?
What can he do? What should he do? He can do virtually anything. What he should do is make the rest of humanity commit their genocide with open eyes. Pick up world leaders and give them a trip to the island to see the distress of the natives being displaced. Drop news crews outside the “resettlement facilities” so they can see the dying mangani. Re-aim satellite cameras to the resettlement.
Personally I believe the reason the holocaust went as far as it did was because of the behind closed doors aspect. The camps were isolated from most of the rest of the country and out of sight became out of mind. Bob’s job is make sure it can’t be done out of sight.
Enjoy,
Steven
Genocide is the extermination of a human population. The mangani are not human.
And to Dibble’s point above: If the superhuman Bob is not bound by law, why should the subhuman mangani be protected by it?
Kill 'em all, take all their shit. It’s the American Way!!
Clearly, they are not being so protected. Hence, the need for superhuman Bob to live up to his promise and do it. Bob must keep his word.
Bob has been open and public about his knowledge - that the mangani will all die if the current course of activity is carried out. He has, presumably, been open and honest that he has a sworn obligation to protect the mangani - what with the Congressional hearings and all.
And I would also point out that Bob is in no way declaring himself master of the USA by bowing to the dictates of his freely-given promise to protect the mangani. I assume, as a citizen, he voted against the genocide - and good on him for that. The logical outcome of the vote ultimately being for genocide is that Bob will be standing on that shore with a film crew having already taken many soulful interviews with doomed-but-determined mangani in as photogenic a manner possible, looking heroic and resigned that he is being forced to do as he promised he would and defend the mangani from certain death - even if that is at the hands of his own chosen nation.
Like every right, the right to vote comes hand in hand with the responsibility to take the consequences. In this case, the very clear consequence of voting in favor of genocide (and shame on the ones who voted thusly) was to have to face a Bob living up to his promise.
I also would like to point out that “disagreement with one’s government” and “treason” are not the same thing at all. What Bob is doing is not treason - it is disagreement. I’d call it civil disobedience if I thought for a second the armed forces would be refraining from firing on Bob and the mangani - since they’re not likely to refrain, I presume the disobedience will become uncivil, but it is clearly not unprovoked.
*Genocide: the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. *From here: GENOCIDE Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com. No mention of human beings.
Theodore Roosevelt said, “No man is below the law, and no man is beneath it.” Obviously we now interpret that to include women. Endangered species, national treasures and wetlands are protected by Federal law. Were I a legislator, I would be happy to extend the protection of the law to a previously-unknown sentient race.
After Superhero Me has protected the mangani, and once U.S. policy towards them has changed to ensure they will not be exterminated, I would submit to prosecution by my country.
So, going back in time and killing all Neanderthals - not genocide, in your view?
Err, you got my argument backwards - I think in this case Bob should (willingly) be bound by law - international law.
Civil disobedience is by definition non-violent. Bob is considering going all Thor on their asses, just as he did against the dragon that was snacking on the mangani 20 years ago.
Treason is waging war on one’s own country, or aiding and comforting the enemies of one’s country. If Bob just puts his invulnerable body in front of a bulldozer that’s one thing, because the ape-folk are no danger to America. But one burst of flash vision against a manned US Navy vehicle (though probably not a missile or drone), or one super-strong punch to a tank – maybe even a puff of hurricane breath to blow back a platoon of Marines – and he’s committing treason.
I respectfully disagree. He has made his position clear on this issue and is standing there on the beach prepared to defend soil he has promised to defend against what he views as wrongful invasion by his chosen country. I might have different feelings if the soil he were defending were now - or at any point in the past had been - part of his chosen country. But it ain’t. In effect, by standing on the beach prepared to defend he’s saying “I would really, really rather not do this, but if you guys force my hand then that is your choice.”
I would expect, being a superhero and all that, that once the dust settled and things were secure for the mangani, thereby completing his obligation, he would surrender himself to the appropriate authorities. I also suspect that there will be a line of very, very capable defense attorneys lining up to one side for the chance to take his case if the government attempts to charge him with treason. Taking a public stance in opposition to the prevailing policy of your nation isn’t treason. It would be treason if he were attempting to undermine or overthrow the government, but he’s not. He’s just saying “I believe your policy is wrong, and in order to keep my sworn word, I am obliged to act to defend this land and these beings against you - choose accordingly.”
The argument that Bob is claiming mastery over the USA by defending Avalon, if taken seriously, would imply that no nation has a right to use force in self-defense, because to do so would be to assert mastery over the attacker.
However, I do not dispute that by defending the island, Bob would be committing treason according to US law. I just think that’s his only option if he doesn’t want to be a gutless coward.
I genuinely do not understand why you feel Bob’s prior declaration of intent matters. If a US national wages war against US military forces on a legitimate mission, he’s committing treason. In this case that treason may be morally justified, but that doesn’t change the fact of what he’s doing.
Because he gave them prior warning, for one thing. If he just Pearl Harbored the fleet, that’s much different than playing defense. And he’s doing what’s right. The men who conspired to kill Hitler were also committing treason. I didn’t intend to Godwinize btw, it was just the first example that sprang to mind.
George Washington committed treason, didn’t he?
Bob is going to have to do some damage to protect the mangani. But with Kryptionian powers, and, I presume, speed, can’t he dart around and use heat vision or something to take out vital electronic equipment?Perhaps he could punch a hole or two in the hulls of the ships, something bad but slow enough that the sailors could be evacuated.?
Oh, as a fan of Edgar Rice Burroughs, I compliment Skald on the use of mangani as a term for the ape folk.
Skald, is this hypothetical meant to be an abortion metaphor? Today he protects mangani, tomorrow he decides to protect fetuses, and how do we distinguish the two?
I am pro-choice.
No it’s not a fricking abortion metaphor.
I think the moral thing for Bob to do is to save the mangani. But I also think he’ll be committing treason if he does so using force, even if he doesn’t kill any Americans.
ETA: Oh, and the mangani are persons, but not human, I’d say. A woman’s unborn fetus is human but not a person.
I’m curious if it would be possible Bob to extract some of the mineral wealth of Avalon without disturbing the lives of the Mangini? You know, a Kryptonian would make an excellent miner and probably wouldn’t cause near the environmental degradation us normal humans would cause.
If so, Bob should probably deposit the naval ships in the streets of DC (eh, the traffic there is terrible anyway), write a quick note on the dome of the Capitol building that “No means No, especially when the superhero says so”, and then maybe slip a note the secretary of the Interior that if they really want the mineral wealth of Avalon, he’d see what he can do to mine a little… for a totally reasonable price that includes defending Avalon from all comers, whatever payout in tropical fruit would be appropriate for the ape-men, and a little something for Bob (sounds like a busload of co-eds would be up his alley, but I’ll let Skald figure out what’s appropriate).
“Treason doth never prosper, what’s the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason.”
Bob should just murder all the members of the current government, plus whoever thought up this scheme. (This in lieu of sinking ships and killing the soldiers, who are just following orders.)
Then suggest politely that the next government the people elect might want to be slightly less genocidal, thanks.
After, at most, a few iterations of this (through natural selection if nothing else) you should wind up with a government that promises not to fuck with the Mangani, or call anyone a traitor, justpleasestopkillingussir.