The Slacker superhero has a pacifist problem.

In My Humble Opinion
1

It’s seven thirty on a Tuesday night, and Bob X (the superhero slacker from these old threads, with powers similar to those of the Byrne-era Superman) is wrestling with a dilemma. Two miles in front of him is a small army of psychos, equipped with high-tech weaponry and orkish misanthropy; two miles behind him is a pacifist commune which said army intends to massacre. The pacifists’ leader has asked Bob NOT to intervene using force; he says it would be better that they all die than contribute, even indirectly, to a culture of violence.

And now for more details. Half an hour ago, Bob was flying to Chicago (where he lives) from Tokyo (where he had picked up a PlayStation custom modified for his unique physiology). He was over the airspace of a failed African nation-state (you pick one) when his super-senses detected a guy in a Gundam-type mini-mecha about to attack a family of four–mother, father, and toddlers. Slacker or not, Bob has a policy of not letting things like that happen, so he dropped the game system and sped to the rescue. He arrived not quite in the nick of time–soon enough to save the father and children, but two seconds too late to save the mother. Understandably pissed, he yanked the mecha’s pilot out of the suit to question him. The pilot was badass enough not to be intimidated even by the threat of glowing laser eyes, but fortunately the mecha’s logs was readable, making his next destination clear.

Leaving the mecha pilot in the wilderness (hopefully to be eaten alive by a nearby pack of hyenas), Bob took the survivors to their home, a village a few miles away. It’s a place Bob has heard about on CNN–a commune called the Sons of Nunuku-whenua, whose residents–of many races and nationalities–consider themselves the spiritual heirs of the Moriori . Bob asked to speak with commune’s leaders; in ten minutes, he was talking with their founder, Micah, and his twelve top advisors, all men.

“Here’s the deal,” Bob said. “A few minutes ago, I saved your guy Paolo and his kids from a member of the Purifiers. That’s a group of psycho assholes who claim to want to reclaim Africa for Africans, which involves attacking small villages, killing everybody who’s not black enough but for their taste, but sparing the nubile virgins. I’ve dealt with them before and was way too merciful last time. They’re heading this way and will be here in minutes. You guys need to take cover while I–”

“Wait,” Micah said. “Can you promise to deal with them non-violently?”

“Huh? Of course not. I’ll promise not to kill anybody I don’t *have *to–people who’ve surrendered, who are retreating, who’ve been knocked out, and so forth. But if I pull punches because I’m trying not be lethal, some of the bad guys are likely to slip through and kill some of your people. I can’t allow that–”

“I’m afraid I must ask you to,” Micah said. “We are absolute pacifists, Mr. Exeter. We believe all human life is sacred; we do not commit violence for any reason, and we cannot countenance others doing so on our behalf. If I allow you use the devil’s ways on our behalf, we will bear the stain of guilt.”

“But that can’t be a problem for you,” another elder commented. “Why don’t you just dig a trench around our compound at super-speed? Or pluck the Sons’ bullets from the air, or vaporize them with your heat vision?”

“That shit only works in comic books,” Bob replied. “If I zip around catching bullets one at a time, I’ll create sonic booms that’ll be just as dangerous to regular folk. Digging a trench at super-speed will shake your commune into dust, and the heat vision–never mind. This is no time to discuss super-power physics. These guys have ordered an asskicking and I gotta go deliver it.”

“Please do not do that, Mr. Exeter,” Micah says. “Not if it means doing violence. We will be the change we wish to bring to the world. If we die today, it is the will of Heaven, and we will be martyrs to the cause of non-violence. Please leave us so that we may gather our followers and pray.”

The rest of the elders all agree.

“You guys are fricking idiots,” Bob says.

With that he flies off. But not far. A quick super-vision survey reveals about five thousand people in the compound–mostly families like Paolo’s. Turning his elvish eyes towards the Purifiers, Bob sees two dozen mechas, a similar number of tanks, and five hundred infantry. Having encountered the Purifiers’ tech before, he’s sure he can handle this force, but not without risk of killing any of them. So he announces his presence and tells them to turn back or get hurt. Unfortunately, his assessment of them as psychos was spot on; even knowing who he is, they keep coming. Moreover, leaving the first Purifier alive was a serious mistake; his buddies saved him from the hyenas, and now they don’t believe Bob has the will to kill. Bob can stay or leave, the Purifiers say, but either way they intend to mow down the commune.

Should Bob do as his gut tells him–lay down the hammer on the Purifers, and thus impose his will on the Sons of Nunuku-whenua–or honor Micah’s request–and let the commune be exterminated?

2

Whack 'em. Not to save Micah’s group, but to save the next village in line.

Alternatively, whack 'em after they ravage Micah’s village, then he won’t have to explain to Micah that he was only saved as collateral damage.

3

I do believe that this is the first SDMB poll that I was the first replier of.
(Man, that was a clumsy sentence.)

Thanks for the moral dilemmas, Skald. You really should write for Marvel. :wink:

4

Bob has to decide what he’s about. If he’s a Servant of Light, then he smashes the Purifiers. If he’s not, he flies away and lets nature take its course.

I’d smash em, but I’m not Bob.

5

I don’t see any reason why Bob should feel bound to the village people’s morals; he can do what he thinks is right, and if that is (probably) killing a few racist assholes in order to prevent greater harm from happening, then he should act according to it. Similarly, there’s no issue with the villagers bearing any ‘guilt’ in this case: Bob is not theirs to command.

(Besides that, non-violence is a cause difficult to be helped by martyrdom, because every instance of martyrism is also one of its opponents winning.)

6

Surely there’s a way Bob can get hold of an EMP to stop the Mechs.

7

^This sums it up. I’m not seeing any dilemma here.

8

I’ve said insulting things about pacifists on many occasions, and probably shall again, but I’m not sure that Bob has the moral authority to impose his will on them. If the pacifists genuinely believe that they would be disgraced by being protected violently, is not Bob acting in a high-handed and unethical fashion by ignoring their stated wishes?

9

Are there children or otherwise individuals not capable of making their own rational decision regarding their fate in the village?

Either way I’m going to be coming down on the Purifiers like the hammer of god, they’ve been given fair warning and they know your capabilities, screw them.

As for the Elders, I don’t see how you defying their request is any moral stain on their part, they asked, you refused, not much they can do about it.

But at least this group of pacifists are brave enough to stick by their morals and don’t expect someone else to use violence to protect them that they’re unwilling to use themselves.

edit: Hah! ‘Superheroes’ by Daft Punk just came on my playlist!

10

The OP strongly implies that there are; Bob’s super-survey of the commune reveals several thousand ihhabitants, mostly families like the one he (incompletely) saved at the beginning.

But suppose we change that. Suppose there’s only adult men and women in the compound, and there’s no evidence that any of them are under duress. What gives Bob the right to impose his judgment, his morality, on them? They believe they’ll be defiled or damned if violence is used on their behalf. Why shouldn’t he just wait till morning to bring down the hammer on the Purifiers?

(Apart from the bad PR, that is.)

11

Aaand I the first one to say “Let them die, they made their choice”.

Maybe it’ll encourage Bob to smash first, ask permission later in the future.

12

“If I intervene, and someone dies, that death is on your conscience? Well, if I don’t intervene, and someone dies, that death is on my conscience. You should make sure everyone stays inside for the next five minutes.”

13

Puree the Purifiers. Just because. Micah’s wishes don’t apply. As stated above, the next village matters.

14

I’m not sure I see in what sense he is imposing his morality on them—he is acting according to his morality, but that seems to me completely independent of the villagers. His actions are not at the villagers’ discretion.

15

I think Miller nailed it, that and any negative karma is on my head not the members of the commune despite what they believe. And I don’t believe there would be any negative karma from my actions in the first place.

16

I’ll be back later tonight with a full response, but before that I have a couple questions.

First, you didn’t say explicitly what the commune would do if Bob went off and killed all the Purifiers anyway, but I’m going to assume that they’re as good as dead if he does. They’ll protest by hunger strike until the slain are revived or something, and since that ain’t gonna happen, they all die. Non-violently.

Second, the elders aren’t holding Bob responsible for any and every death that occurs among the Purifiers, are they? Like, if Bob put on his scariest mask and flew around screeching like a 5-year-old, and all of the Purifiers had heart attacks, or shot themselves in terror, or stumbled and impaled themselves on their bayonets, that wouldn’t count as using violence against them, right?

17

The cultists will do a better job demonstrating their purity if they survive and continue to live the way they want to than if they get ground into dust and martyred, because NOBODY is going to say “wow, that pacifism really works, until the mecha show up! That’s the path for me!”

18

Just to be clear: are the deaths Bob is trying to keep off his conscience those of the commune, or of the next village? Because if it’s the latter, he can always go home, grab a slice of pizza at Coalfire’s, and come back to kick Purifier ass on a full stomach. If it’s the former, though, what gives Bob’s moral comfort higher priority than the pacifists’?

Speaking as OP rather than poster:

He wasn’t asking permission. He took the survivors home first because, as the story noted, there were hyenas nearby; he didn’t want them eaten while he was out kicking ass. He took as long as he did to get them there because, as implied by his ditching the PlayStation, things he carried do not become invulnerable, so they’d have been squished if he’d carried them five miles in five seconds. Once in the village, it occurred to him that he needed to get the civilians under cover, so he made the “mistake” (from his vantage), of telling the Micah and company what he was about to do.

Speaking as poster rather than OP:
Seems to me that, even though Bob had a vague notion of who the commune’s inhabitants were, he didn’t bother to think things through when he deposited the family there. He probably thought they were like the occasional pacifist who is okay with others kicking ass in their defense, rather than being truly and consistently principled ones, as they seem to be.

:confused:

Of course he’s imposing his morality on them, just as he would be on the Purifiers.

I didn’t think of mass suicide among the commune when I wrote the scenario, and since Bob didn’t think to ask them what they were doing before flying off, I’m going to say he doesn’t know. As I wrote above, if Bob had had more information (or thought things through) before dropping Paolo & his kids, he’d never have talked to Micah and the elders in the first place.

Of course those would count as violence, as as if Bob threw boulders at the tanks rather than punching them barehanded.

19

Because he’s making the decision whether or not to defend them and has to live with himself afterwards?

In fact its not a very fair position for the villagers to put him in.

Again if there are children (or others not capable of informed consent) in the village then its not even a question or a moral conundrum. Even if it apparently consists entirely of consenting adults I have a hard time believing they all have agreed en-masse to sacrifice themselves for the cause.

Whether the elders like it or not there’s gonna be a little of the old ultraviolence.

If I’m feeling generous I might destroy one of the Mecha’s first in suitably showy manner to give the others a chance to change their minds and retreat.

btw what was the point of specifying the Elders are all men, is that a subtle hint that the entire commune is not on-board with the sacrifice plan?

20

Exactly. There’s no other answer.