The Great Phi Theory.

A gaussian functional integral is really just a regularized functional determinant which are well known to mathmeticians.

You’re being a bit unfair to Gaussian functional integrals.

There is a very pretty theory of Gaussian measures on infinite-dimensional vector spaces, which makes it clear that the NICE way to integrate on such vector spaces is not to use the nonexistent “Lebesgue” measure, but these Gaussian measures.

The technically sweet way to deal with this stuff is to use generalized measures instead of measures. Then any Hilbert space comes equipped with a god-given Gaussian generalized measure

exp(-<x,x> ) Dx

You can painlessly integrate any polynomial in finitely many variables with respect to this Gaussian measure. You can also integrate certain limits of such polynomials. This is secretly what we do all over the place in quantum field theory.

The term “generalized measure” may sound scary, but in fact one can rigorously explain all this stuff in a way that’s much easier than the usual explanation of, say, the Lebesgue integral.
In fact, I pretty much gave the whole story away in my last paragraph.

So it’s really not bad. The only problem is that there is nowhere you can read about this stuff without fighting through a thicket of overly erudite mathematics… because so far, only overly erudite mathematicians have attempted to make these functional integrals rigorous, and the Gaussian functional integrals are a piddly little special case of the monstrous machinery they’ve developed.

Anyway, once you learn about this stuff, you can see that regularized functional determinants are “really just” Gaussian functional integrals. I.e., the other way around from how you think about it.

Of course either point of view is acceptable, but personally I find it simpler and more satisfying to learn how to integrate and then see the regularized functional determinants pop out as answers to certain integrals - just like the physicists always said they would! - instead of saying “ugh, these integrals make no sense, so we’ll define them to be regularized functional determinants”.

Much as many people try to make it look like it, my impression has been is that interacting QFT is not just relativistic quantum mechanics and that the mathematical foundations are going to have to be something significantly different.

Time will tell. My personal hope is that bringing quantum gravity into the mix will actually make the math easier - at least, easier to make rigorous! Lots of people think this, for the obvious reason: spacetime discreteness of some sort may cure the ultraviolet divergences.
The trick is to get this to arise naturally as part of a quantum theory of spacetime, instead of inserting it as an awkward kludge.

QM was put on rigorous bounds years ago. There have been attempts at trying to axiomatize QFTs, but, AFAIK either one proves that the axioms are too restrictive and no interesting QFT satisfies them, or the axioms are broad enough to not be terribly useful.

ZAP!

Alas, the situation is nowhere so clear as this. The Haag-Kastler axioms very well could apply to the QFTs particle physicists actually study… but nobody knows if they do or not! With some some later additions, the Haag-Kastler axioms can be used to prove all sorts of wonderful things about QFT - just the sort of things one wants to be true. People like Buchholz have done a wonderful job of exploring their consequences. However, nobody has proved that any interacting theores in 4d satisfy these axioms.
Nobody has proved they don’t, either - except arguably for the phi^4 theory, which is still sort of controversial. So it’s completely unclear whether the axiomatic approach is on the road to triumph, or merely heading towards a mirage.

There is also a group of people who go about trying to construct some QFTs rigorously that satisfy some set of axioms or another, but they’ve really never managed to construct anything very physical. The last I heard, the most complicated thing was phi^4 in three dimensions. The standard reference on this is a >book by Glimm and Jaffe called something like Quantum Mechanics:A Functional Integral Approach. It’s very heavy on the analysis,
though.

Yup. It seems you’ve gotta prove lots of inequalities to get anywhere in this game… it’s hard work. The best result so far appears to be Balaban’s: existence of 4d pure Yang-Mills theory with a fixedultraviolet cutoff. By “fixed” I mean that for his arguments to work,
you gotta work in a box of some size and you *can’t take this size to infinity. I don’t know how big this box is, but probably it’s pretty damn small. :slight_smile: Of course, nobody knows is this is a realproblem with Yang-Mills theory or merely a problem with his techniques.

(Reminds self-This is not a Pit thread. This is Not a Pit thread)

He is a Chorister. A spectroscopic analyses of a Hermetic yields Mindex orange, Pasuc red and Thalo blue. See my above post. Hiryuu IS a chorister.

Re-Union
My mentor, Eobard Thorn WAS a member of the Union. He was one of the many Elctrodyne Engineers to join the Traditions when the GreyFaces outlawed Ether. I know what the Union has to offer. I picked the right side. We have diversity and the sense of wonder that is the source of all true Science. You have conformity and banality.

Out of curiosity CA, what convention are you a member of? Considering your presence here, Iterator or Man In Black seem most likley. Though you could be an Engineer. Geneticist is of course possible, but IMHO unlikely

Diversity and wonder for who? A small group of the “enlightened”, while the majority of the population lives in ignorance? Stability, reason, and progress, that’s the key to “enlightenment”, and it needs to be available to everyone, not just a select few. Look at what’s happened already in the past 100 years? Childhood diseases that were fatal we now have vaccines for. The ideas of democracy and equality have taken root. The global economy is getting more standardized and unified. We’re exploring space, and freeing ourselves from the bonds of earth. This is where the future is going. It’s not conformist, and it’s not banal. It’s a world of freedom and wonder…a world that your mentor turned away from to follow his pseudoscience.

What tradition? NWO. Let other people have their machines and genes. As Aristotle said, man is a political animal, and there’s no better science than the study of his relationships with his fellow man.

Man, this feels like Seethruart all over again. What’s next, Hiyruu? Gonna claim that you see pictures of spaceships and artwork in electron microscope analyses?

DocCathode

What are you talking about?

You see, DocCathode, your single-minded devotion to science has alienated you from your fellow man. You must learn to hear the music of the wind, the deep rhythm of the earth. Come to the Dreamspeakers, where you will learn these things.

SturmHawke-With all due respect, you have a rather innacurate image of me. My laboratory is not some emotionally cold and sterile closet. It is my magicians toyshop. It is backstage at the Muppet show. In my lab, I take bits of silver and glass and craft them into miracles. I prefer working with parts from old Commodore 64 products. Besides their amazing durability, the first computer I ever owned was a C64. Here was a piece of the future-a personal computer! Games to delight the senses. Built in BASIC to educate the mind. I may use an IBM clone for mundane tasks, but all my projects are done on Commodores. I can acces the world wide web from this machine. To access the Digital Web, I need my Commodore Plus 4.
Captain Amnesia-You call this wonder? Sterility and stagnation in all the arts? 90% of students in our schools too sickened with apathy and the theft of their hopes and dreams to learn? The American dream used to involve hard work. Now it is the dream of lottery tickets and wealth without effort. Now, people turn to the god $ for all their answers! Is this your paradise? The Etherist labor for a world pregnant with hope and bursting with possibilities. A world where any sleeper can find the power to solve their own problems. True Science is not held captive in the labs of governments and megacorps! It is the property of all people. There WILL be a robot maid in every kitchen and an anti-grav car in every garage. Everyone will have the knowledge and the power to make this world a better place. When any child plays with magnets, marvels at a prism, stares at a lava lamp or hologram, or learns the facts of robotics we move closer to our Ascenscion. The greed of the Syndicate can not compare to the hope and wonder that is every humans birthright. The emptiness of the Void Engineers can not stand before the miracles of a single childs imagination. Your NWO propaganda pales beside the miracles of our science. The Progenitors may understand the genome, but they have no grasp of the power of the human heart.

Screw all these damn hippy stoners, I’m digging out my Commodore 128. Awww, yeah. Look for me on the Digital Web. I’ll be Hauke. SturmHauke.

That explains Hiryuu’s mention of the Hebre alphabet. His talk of “self-organizing spirals” and “trumpets” is actually a form of sacred geometry.

Hiryuu, provide specific explanations of your equations. The value of N is tied to what real world variable? If you can not provide such an explanation what you have is not true math but sacred algebra.

Scientific hypothesis lead to predictions which can be tested through experiments. Scinetific formulae are demonstrable. Their terms are representative of real world variables(eg-f=ma,v=ri, e=mcc,etc et al). If you can not demonstrate that your Great Phi theory meets these requirements, it is not science. It is *theology*.

Which Tradition preaches that the universe is best understood through theological studies? Choristers.

Doc Cathode,
Has the Cartoon Network had a Jetsons’ marathon or something? Look at the facts. More of humanity is leading better lives now than 100, 200, 500, or 1000 years ago. Why? Science, technology, and the idea of reason.

If you were sincere about "bringing ascendance" to the world, I'd support you. We did support your convention, remember? But then your "mentor" and others like him betrayed humanity. We're not cruel, though. Come back, and you'll be forgiven. Renounce the unscientific belief in Aether, and reconcile yourself to the vacuum of space.

{Hijack)
That is the last straw Captain Amortizing!

** How dare you use the word wonder in any of your posts!**

We(and the other Traditions-though some of them are a bit confused about it) offer humanity the truth-the power they need is within each of them. You offer them comfort, true. You give them comforting lies. You give them false hope and tawdry dreams. The safety you seem so proud of is Big Brother, and the destruction of independent thought.

You seem so proud of the moon landing. Who do you think provided the computers for that project? Iteration X? Wrong. It was the VA’s. They and the SoE’s infiltrated every part of the Apollo projects. You could NEVER have done it without us. Why would we aid you? We didn’t. We helped one man take a small step and mankind take a giant leap toward Ascension. A man walked on the moon. The world united in wonder.

CA-Bring your MIB butt to the Pit!

Hiryuu, with all do respect, I find it rude that you are posting this theory for the third time when you evaporated from prior discussions without answering pertinent questions. [For those interested, the previous incarnation of this ‘theory’ was posted as Has E=MC^2 been replaced by Gravity=Light*PHI^n?]. I will not waste my effort on this again, but you are welcome to address my previous queries, in particular regarding your pivotal equation:

IMO, repeated posting of this [sym]F[/sym] fantasy is trolling.

By gosh, this kinda fun.

First off, thanks to Hiyruu for somewhat answering my question on the identity of n in the equation. To know that it is a variable is informative to a degree, but that still (as several people have pointed out) doesn’t tell us what it stands for/represents. It HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING, or the equation is pointless. In the equation E=mc[sup]2[/sup], m is a variable, but it represents MASS. What is the analogous meaning for n in your equation?

Second:

I’ll tackle a bit of this one, but it’s been twenty years since high school, and I’m ashamed to say I haven’t really kept up on all the math and physics. However, according to this webpage, if Gravity is measured in Newtons, then G can be expressed in terms of kilograms times meters divided by seconds divided by seconds, or kg*m/s/s. The speed of light isn’t measured in meters, but rather meters (or more usually kilometers) per second, or m/s. From this, we should be able to figure the proper units of the [sym]F[/sym][sup]n[/sup] component. My best guess dredged from the depths of my brain is that the [sym]F[/sym][sup]n[/sup] term must be in the units kg/s. But unless we know where n comes from and what it represents, I’m afraid we still have a useless equation.

hmmmm… the idea that Gravity which is an acceleration would be measure in Newtons is absurd to begin with.

Accelerations are always measured in a distance/time/time format.

Newtons are a measure of force. Period. The implication of that formula, explained that way, is that a snowflake and a semi truck would have the same amount of force holding each to the ground.

However, shooting reason at this theory is like shooting a bb-gun at a modern tank. It just bounces right off.

I am really trying to resist posting to this thread anymore.

[Borg]
Resistance is futile.
You will be assimilated.
[/Borg]

Like I said, twenty years ago for me. I kind of remembered Gravity as acceleration, too; but there are an awful lot of more knowledgeable people than me on this board, so I’m willing to yield to them. But:

You sure about this? It seems that the gravitational acceleration would be the same, but the force (in Newtons, which factor in the mass of the objects) would be substantially different. My head hurts. At any rate, if (as you say) there is no mass in the Gravity component, then [sym]F[/sym][sup]n[/sup] would be a reciprocal of time? Simply measured in units of 1/s? Now my head really hurts.

Dijon Warlock: Apologies, I did mean to say distance and m/s respectively. Thank you for correcting that error. As for the rest, [sym]F[/sym] is defined geometrically: a line connecting points A, B, and C such that the ratio of the length of segments AC to BC is the same as the ratio of the segments BC to AB. This ratio is [sym]F[/sym]. The point is that the number is unitless. [sym]F[/sym] also has the property, due to this same definition, of each successive power equaling the sum of the previous two powers. This quirk I believe is the source of the belief that the number is somehow magical, and explains the inclusion of an n power in the equation. Once again unitless, and we are left with no way to balance the equation.

dammitall I did it again. Speed and m/s. And I make these oversights with a physics text sitting next to me. I’m so ashamed.

yeah, don’t hurt your head with it.

It will never be put into compliance with reality.

I guess what I was aiming for was the idea that if we could know the units that G and C represent, it would be possible–from a unit standpoint, although not a quantity standpoint–to “solve” for [sym]F[/sym][sup]n[/sup]. In other words, figure out what units [sym]F[/sym][sup]n[/sup] must be expressed in to balance the equation. I’m not sure if I got it right, as it’s been a appallingly long time since I did any of this kind of thing. Knowing whether G stands simply for gravitational acceleration, or whether it stands for the resultant force (F=MA, I remember that much, at least) would help. Just calling it “gravity” isn’t helping much, I don’t think. Not knowing what n stands for isn’t helping, either. But hey, just in case this IS the Grand Unified Equation, I figure it’s worth taking a look. As I mentioned in another thread somewhat on this topic:

I’m going to draw you guys a diagram.