Shodan, it doesn’t appear that you worry much about what anyone else thinks anyway.
Case in point.
I’m in the produce section of a huge grocery store the other day. I can’t estimate square footage, but this is a big box store. Produce is done up nicely, with umbrellas and open spaces etc.
It can also function as an echo chamber. <shudders>
I am actually in the bread aisle (next to produce) when I hear the shrieks. These are not pain cries or hunger or distress-this is cheerful, top of the lungs, playground shrieking.
I start cringing already–because it has not been shushed.
I round the corner into produce and there are the culprits. 2 little girls, dressed alike (separate thread, believe me). Older one looks about 4-5–definetly old enough to know how to behave(or at least have learned about inside voices at school). Younger one is 2-3.
They are pulling the plastic bags used for produce off the spindle and yelling like banshees. Mom is on the cell phone. I see her get off the phone, adjust something on the baby in the cart’s seat, and push her cart to the bananas. Doesn’t even glance at demon kids.
Girls shriek louder and now combine it with holding out hands to catch the spray from the automatic sprinkler–it’s programmed to warn you, then “thunder” occurs and the mist comes down. Very clever. Kids love it.
EVERYONE in Produce is now staring/glaring at mother. This high pitched squeeling just doesn’t stop.
Family from hell is now moseying towards the deli counter. Oh no! I need to go to the deli counter! I grit my teeth and move towards it.
Mom and kids get there first. Girls are now calling each other names, at top volume. Mom does bupkus. She orders whatever. Woman behind counter looks at mom, looks at girls and back again. Nothing.
Elderly black woman is in line before me. I can tell from the set of her back that she is about to say something to mom/girls. Younger girl makes a run for it towards cereal/bread aisle. Mom looks up (finally!) and moves off to get her daughter–leaves the counter. Older girl now calling younger one by name as she moves off with mom et al.
Deli lady, elderly black lady and I look at each other. I say softly, “aren’t kids supposed to seen and not heard?”–and we all laugh.
I dont’ care if this woman makes homemead bread and sews her girls those matching outfits. I don’t care if she gives half her income to charity–she has no control over her kids in public and that to me is a huge black mark.
There is no reason the general public should have to put up with that-ever. Distress is entirely different. This woman most likely has become innured to the decibel level–the rest of us haven’t. She is doing the kids no favors.
I have to agree. The 8,000 times I take my daughter out and about without incident are unnoticed by the general public, and rightly so. One time we were in Target and she asked for something she couldn’t have. For some reason when I said “No” this time she took it poorly and started to cry. Instantly I had judgemental eyes all over me including one gentleman’s lovely, “Jesus Christ.” I told my daughter the issue wasn’t up for arguement and I would talk to her when she was done. Noone noticed one minute later when she stopped crying, apologized with a “Sorry, Mommy” and we merrily finished our shopping trip.
Before anyone jumps in - No, I don’t take her to fancy resteraunts or anything other than kid movies. No, this isn’t the norm for her behavior. No, I think leaving the store at that moment was unnecessary because I happen to know my child better than anyone else. Yes, other incidents with other children could have other factors. Yada Yada Uada
We could examine them with an electron microscope and still not find a non-evasive answer to a repeated, direct question.
The strawmen continue piling up.
Interesting, though, how the “few minutes” that Shodan allowed his kids to carry on free of parental interference, have now mysteriously decreased to “thirty seconds”.
Right-wingers tend to be big on Personal Responsibility and express contempt for the “It takes a village to raise a child” mantra. Funny how that all goes out the window when Shodan is talking about My Chil-druhn. 
I don’t think anyone’s defending worthless bitches like that mother. Her kids ought to be taken and put in a home where they’ll receive a decent upbringing, because she’s going to turn them into idiots who are incapable of surviving in the real world.
It’s not like that’s what Shodan was describing, though. I don’t think he lets his kids run wild. He merely deprises them of the tantrum weapon by ignoring it. I bet those tantrums didn’t last very long, and were rarely repeated. If it worked to teach them not to scream like banshees in public, then we’re all better off.
Every child has tantrums in public, I suspect. Even if you do immediately leave the store, folks have already been disturbed by them, and it’s just not possible for there to be a world free of children acting like, well, children. Chances are you would not be bothered substantially less by the screams of a child who was carried out of the grocery store than by one who was ignored till they got bored and quit.
I mean, Jesus, I fucking loathe children and I still don’t see what all this whining is about. Like I said before, people are inconvenient, children or adults, whether or not they are well-mannered. You will not live a life free of inconvenience from other humans, and there’s nothing a parent can do short of tranquilizers to ensure that children never misbehave. Short of wholesale neglect as in eleanorigby’s story, the problems caused by misbehaving children are not all that big on the grand scheme of things. You won’t avoid them whether or not you fuss about it. It makes more sense to try to live a calm life than to spend it in a constant rage over things you have no control over.
By the way, I like the idea of the spanking card, but the spanking should be administered to the parent, not the child. If you are too juvenile and immature to take responsibility for your spawn, then you oughta get treated like an immature little brat yourself.
If the child throws a tantrum in a public place, and the parent does not take immediate steps to deal with the situation, you betcha he or she is a bad and lazy parent.
A parent who does not know how to settle a tantrum-throwing child down in short order, and is too spineless to take the kid outside, has no business getting bristly when the rest of the people in the public place voice their objections.
I totally agree, infamousmom --and I can refute the “every kid has a tantrum at some point” position. Yes, the screaming may have already disturbed the diners or shoppers-that is not the point. That is gonna happen–the POINT is that you do not allow it to continue to disturb the rest of the restaurant/store. You act and act immediately. I just got back from Target-little kid singing (not screeching) at the top of his lungs. Cute as hell? Yes AND no-not appropriate in a store.
I was not addressing shodan directly or at all-I was reinforcing the point made by the OP.
Kids are allowed too much leeway in public today. I like kids and am a parent of three, and if YOUR kid askes me for something and doesn’t say please, believe me, I will ask, “what do you say?” or “how do you ask?” I also will not relinquish said item until I hear a “thank you.” The girls in my Brownie troop quickly learned that civility was key. Not sure, but none of them (now all freshmen in HS) seem to be the worse for wear.
yeah-I’m a bitch: doing my part to show kids that there are standards of behavior in this world.
Sorry there’s more.
excal --my point was that I see this every day. The woman in the grocery store was not atypical. Every day I am out-I see stuff that appalls me. I know there are excellent parents out there-but I have started approaching them and complimenting them, because they seem to be disappearing.
I see kids who are hurt in stores (fell down, bumped head, whatever) and are still ignored by that parent who just wants to shop (sorry, but usually mom-I shop during the day for the most part). I really don’t see this stuff when Dad has the kids. I live in an area with alot of SAHM’s.
I hear ‘if you wanna cry, I’ll give you sumthin’ to cry about" about twice a month in a store. Sucks as a discipline device-nsaty, brutish thing to say to anyone.
My beef in this thread is noone seems to want to PAY ATTENTION TO THE CHILD’S NEEDS. Most temper tantrums stem from frustration of some kind. Some frustrations SHOULD be nipped in the bud–whining for more toys, for example. Or a blue one instead of a red one like Timmy’s got (whatever). Ignore those all you like(in the car, away from the public’s ears).
SOME frustrations are NOT the result of me-me-me. Kid is tired, overstimulated, hungry, wet/poopy, coming down with a fever–whatever. Instead of just “ignoring” him–find out what the hell is wrong.
I remember yelling at my first son for acting like a demon child (in the house, but what a trial he was that day!)–turns out he had bilateral ear infections.
No, you don’t reward a tantrum-noone is saying that. I had great success in avoiding them all together. The kids knew from the get go-I don’t buy candy/gum/toys at the checkout. Non-issue, because I was consistent. I told my kids, we are going to X and Y and then we will stop for lunch at (special place) if you behave. (I am paraphrasing). After lunch, we hafta go one more place and then we are done and home for the day.
I didn’t overload them with the errands; I engaged them in the process(and taught them some interesting vocabulary at the same time–the world, even the oil change place, is fascinating to the preschool and under set), and (key point) I praised them for their good behavior. Works like a charm.
Some maybe want to zone out while shopping and think about the last baseball game or sex or that fight you had with your MIL-fine with me. Don’t take your kids shopping then–get a sitter. You want your trip to Kohl’s to be quality time for you to decide on the towel scheme for the new bathroom? Fine-arrange a playdate for junior.
This is not rocket science, folks. How hard is it to raise kids who know how to behave in public?