True, but that’s supposing that a prolonged lightning attack, such as Emperor vs Luke, would have an effect equal to a single instantaneous bolt of lightning. Perhaps a sustained attack would be too much power for the suit to absorb. It seemed to be dangerously close to the red after the one hit from Thor. Or perhaps it could at least keep him immobile long enough for another Jedi to come in with a saber strike. If I were the Jedi in question, I’d consider it my best move against Iron Man, anyway. Failing that… Think a surgical-precision use of force telekinisis could detonate one of Iron Man’s rockets, still inside its launcher?
[QUOTE=Miller]
I don’t think the Jedi Mind Trick would work on any of the Avengers. It’s only supposed to work on the weak-minded, and I don’t think that applies to any of the Avengers.
[/QUOTE]
I’d say that movie Hulk (Hulk, mind you, not Banner) is at least as weak-minded as your average storm trooper. Anyway, I’m not suggesting a “these are not the Jedi you’re looking for” sort of thing, more a manipulation of emotions to make him lose his rage.
Jedi power levels vary wildly depending on what source we’re drawing from. If we’re looking solely at the six movies, it’s Avengers hands down. Heck, if we only look at the power levels from the original trilogy, Captain America could wipe out the entire Jedi Council on one of his off days.
But if we look at any of the KotoR video games or the excellent Geddy Tartakovsky Clone Wars cartoons or the various tabletop RPGs, I think the Jedi have a fighting chance. A fully tricked out Jedi Guardian in Jedi power armor could be a match for Iron Man, and I think that a powerful Jedi Consular could definitely calm down the Hulk.
I’m quite surprised that most people have gone with the Avengers. I only put caveats in the OP because I thought it would be too easy for the Jedi otherwise.
Cap and Black Widow would dodge and weave about for a while, but Jedi are equally nimble, and have the advantage that their reflexes are precognitive. I doubt Cap or Black Widow would be able to land a punch, and eventually, they would lose a limb to the long arc of a light sabre.
If Jedi can block blasters, I can’t see an arrow giving a Jedi a hard time. The only way I can see Hawkeye getting anywhere is with the explodey-arrow trick he used to take down Loki.
Iron Man would probably do better, although it depends on just how much telekinesis the average jedi has. Mace Windu was able to disassemble a battledroid with a wave of his hand (at 4:38), as well as smash them to pieces with his bare fists. A normal Jedi knight probably has at least enough that any sort of missile based attack would be a bad idea. Same with repulsors, if light sabres can deflect them back.
Hulk is most definitely weak-minded, and would be a huge liability to the Avengers. The Jedi would have him mind-tricked to buggery before the fight had even started.
The only Avenger I think would give them a real hard time would be Thor, but he would be too busy fighting Hulk to do much.
Oh man, I forgot how badass Mace was in those cartoons.
There’s something else to consider. The Jedi seem to grow exponentially in power when Lucas isn’t in direct creative control. Now that Disney has taken over, I think the Avengers need to call in sick to work on that particular day.
Again, though, you have to consider “Which Avengers?” Post #3 pretty much covered the basics of why the Jedi lose, every time. There is nothing they have that can counter a reality bender. Wanda Maximoff sneezes and Mace Windu turns into a flower pot. She blinks and Yoda is a plushie.
If we’re bringing in non-movie versions of the Jedi, that opens the door to non-movie versions of the Avengers, and that’s a level of power-creep that the Jedi are simply not prepared to handle.
Well, Thor is a god, so right there you probably have the answer. Is the Hulk invulnerable to a light saber? If not, then I’m not seeing any overwhelming advantage there…I mean, if he tries to smash a Jedi, he’d lose a paw right there. Iron Man also doesn’t seem to have any great advantage, assuming his plasma bolts or whatever he’s got that comes out of his hands can be deflected in the same way blaster bolts can be deflected by a light saber in the movies. Same goes for Black Widow and Hawkeye, even leaving aside the mind control aspect…nothing they shoot at the Jedi would get through the light saber deflection stuff, and yet they would be completely vulnerable to either the lightning thingy or just cut in two by those same light sabers. Same goes for Captain America, unless his shield can withstand light sabers, he’d hold that thing up and then get cut in two by the light saber coming down through it.
So, it’s all down to Thor, who, as I said, is a god with a gods weapon. Presumably that weapons couldn’t be deflected by mind tricks or light sabers, so he’d probably wipe them out, after they killed all the other Avengers. Of course, if the Iron Druid could take Thor, then maybe he ain’t so tough…
Oh, sorry. That’s another universe. I give it to the Avengers, with Thor as the last man, er, god, standing.
Not at all. It has been well established ‘in-universe’ that when raging the Hulk is anything but weak-minded. Some of the MU telepaths who are orders of magnitude more powerful than any Jedi can’t affect the Hulk, the Jedi’s have no chance of doing so.
I love Star Wars, but this is an easy win for the Avengers. The three big heavy hitters of the Avengers in Thor, Hulk, and Iron Man would mop the floor with the Jedi.
On the Mind Whammy vs Hulk thing, I can’t think of any way it doesn’t turn out bad for the Jedi. When Bruce goes green, he’s basically in fight-or- flight(primarily fight) and won’t be coming down until the danger has been dealt with one way or another. How voluntary the change was may have a bearing on how much control Banner has, but it is the Other Guy’s party and Bruce is relegated to an advisory role(if that.)
Scenario 1: Jedi attempts Mind Whammy. It doesn’t work. More powerful telepaths have tried and failed. Hulk gets Madder. Jedi gets more fucked and hopes the Green Guy will settle for just subduing him.
Scenario 2: Jedi Tries Mind Whammy and actually gets The Hulk to calm down a little. This allows Bruce to regain a bit more control, but doesn’t un Hulk him because the threat of the Jedi is still there and must be dealt with. If anything the Jedi is even more fucked than he was in the first scenario, because Banner is even more dangerous than the Hulk alone.
Also, the Hulk is no longer weak minded enough to be Whammied a second time.
Scenario 3: Hulk attempts to smash Jedi. Jedi steps to the side and cuts off Hulks arm. Hulk says, in effect, it’s nothing but a flesh wound and keeps coming. Black Knight ensues…
I see the mind trick more as a small nudge, rather than attempting to control the Hulk. The Hulk likes hitting Thor, and has practically no self control, so making him want to do it wouldn’t take much.
So, Jedi have the superhuman speed to deflect bolts of energy coming at them at light speed, but can’t move to the side and take a swing at a giant green guy trying to smash them with a fist the size of a small car? Or, hell, just hold up the light saber like Sam in Return of the King and let the spider fall on it…and he’s got furry feet!!
I’m kind of skeptical that a Jedi can even use the mind trick in the middle of a fight. I’m pretty sure you never see that in the movies. How far out into the EU do you have to go to find an example of a Jedi using the mind trick in an overtly offensive manner?
Can they use that lighting out of their hands stuff while fighting? Not that I see them needing even that, as long as they have those light sabers that can cut through anything (except another light saber).
Oh, he can sidestep. It’s the “hack off Hulk’s arm” part where the Jedi’s day goes all wrong: the Hulk has a high degree of invulnerability - while the saber wouldn’t necessarily bounce off harmlessly, I don’t think it’s going to cut very deeply. And despite his size, the Hulk is wicked fast and agile - I wouldn’t take it as a given that any given Jedi is going to be able to outmaneuver him.
Or, hell, just hold up the light saber like Sam in Return of the King and let the spider fall on it…and he’s got furry feet!!