The Inigo Montoya saga

[Syntropy]

@Martin Hyde

Mind indeed. As it is I’m being genuine when I say I feel for Inigo. I just don’t think we should be so ready to jump on the support train when there is a chance that childrens’ healthy upbringing is at risk. And no, just because you have donated some biological matter to create a child does not mean being a parent is “part of who you are.”

Thank you for verifying that you have no idea whatever what it is to be a parent.

There are many people who are biological parents and could care less what happens to their children, there are some that wouldn’t even recognize their own children if they met them on the street. Some people are not fit to be parents. Some people should never have kids in the first place. Some people don’t have the personality.

Agreed on each point. However. How do you know that Inigo’s wife is one of those people? Oh. Based on three threads. Well done. You have a wonderful career in psychoanalysis ahead of you.

Unfortunately it seems many of the things that make an insufficient parent also go hand in hand with the type of person likely to get pregnant/get someone pregnant and find themselves in the parenting situation.

What a lovely narrow minded blanket statement. I don’t think there’s anything I could possibly say to that in this particular forum, other than I am completely agog that people with your mindset actually view the things you are spouting as right and good.

What do any of us bring to this forum aside from our own personal experiences? I offered my opinion based on the story. I did so in a way that was not intentionally insulting to Inigo. In my viewpoint pointing out a weak skill doesn’t make me a bad person, and it doesn’t constitute a personal attack. However if this method of discussing things offends or upsets Inigo I won’t say anything else in this thread. But this is his thread and I’ll leave at his request, not yours.

Many people here bring well informed, educated opinions to all of the fora on this board. Yours is neither. And this is not the place for debate. I didn’t call you a bad person. And yes, judgement calls on a person’s parenting skills IS a personal attack. Three people have pretty much told you this. YOU don’t view it as such. Bully for you. Then maybe you can find a better way to say it, yes? My request that you take this to the pit

And I don’t think it is fair to ask me to judge the veracity/sincerity of individual comments Inigo makes, or to try to look deeper into the situation than he has given us access.

I think you have it backward. I’m asking you to not judge at all. Because frankly, it isn’t your place.

MPSIMS is a more relaxed atmosphere. Inigo put down his store and I put down “stuff I must share.”

Yes, it is more relaxed. One does not expect to be judged in MPSIMS. And, your “stuff I must share” was judgemental moralistic self righteous twaddle.

I put the caveat in virtually all of the posts I’ve made that I don’t know the whole situation. That’s to say right up front that I’m just going off these posts. It’s very possible and even likely the “real” situation is not well reflected by the posts, and I’ve said that. And if the real situation is not well reflected by the posts then I see no reason that Inigo cannot just say that, and then move on from there.

I’m sorry. Would you please point to exactly where in the user agreement it says all posters are beholden to explain in precise detail every aspect of each situation to the satisfaction of Martin Hyde, because otherwise he reserves the right to tell you what a lacking human being you are?

[Syntropy]

@Maureen

Many people here bring well informed, educated opinions to all of the fora on this board. Yours is neither. And this is not the place for debate. I didn’t call you a bad person. And yes, judgement calls on a person’s parenting skills IS a personal attack. Three people have pretty much told you this. YOU don’t view it as such. Bully for you. Then maybe you can find a better way to say it, yes? My request that you take this to the pit

I apologize for not finishing this thought.
My request that you take this to the Pit is due to the fact that the things you are saying are inflammatory and will doubtless cause a shitstorm. Continuing to argue semantics over how good your intentions were when you posted what you did will only serve to further inflame.

[Inigo_Montoya]

I seem to have my own personal flamethrower. I must remember to be kind to Maureen.

Martin Hyde, I posted in anger. You, I and the rest of the paying Dopers deserve better than that. In a few brief sentences you pushed a lot of my buttons and I deviated from two of my most prized personal values: tolerance and compassion.

BUT, I think you need to decide if it’s really appropriate to try to “improve your life” until you “become” a good father. If you don’t think you’re “up to it” then you need to find these kids some better guardians. It’s very injurious to children to try to compose yourself mentally and raise children at the same time.

This phrase in particular. I won’t rip it up except to ask: When is ever NOT appropriate to step back & assess one’s habits and make changes if doing so presents an opportunity for improvement? I don’t have to be crazy to think this is a good thing, there are lots of ‘normal’ folks who get sidetracked & lose focus. I never said I didn’t think I was up to the task of parenting, I just showed that there was a time when I discovered that my focus was inappropriate, and I made a conscious effort to change.

For 22 years Mrs. Montoya has been a good friend and a wonderful person with the strength to be true to herself even when that means ‘change’ of some magnitude. That’s why I married her, and why in the current situation I leave her with great reluctance. In all fairness she’s not a particularly good wife because she’s a bit selfish emotionally. Could have something to do with a couple rapes and being ill-used by close friends on more than one occasion. It hurts me when I’m not trusted emotionally, but I can empathize and cut her some slack. Our interests are very different (she doesn’t like Princess Bride, Lord of The Rings, Straight Dope, beer or gardening–things I am passionate about; and I don’t much care for the color orange, politics, sociology/psychology/philosophy/religion–which really turn her crank) and while they make for interesting discovery & conversation, day in and day out we both get lonely not being able to SHARE many interests.

As for her as a parent, she’s been rock steady until November. As this situation has developed and we have been able to talk over the last 3 months, I am better able to understand what has been going on with her. When we call someone or something “crazy” it is because it seems not to be logical, it is not behaving in accordance with past behaviors. Now that I better understand her frame of mind and her relationship with her lover (she hates it when I call him that) I can’t say she should have behaved any differently. Our marriage was dead probably 2 years ago–there was no real feeling between the two of us, just history and the memory of feeling. Everything we did from day to day was out of habit and solely for the purpose of seeing the sun rise on another day. There was no joy. When someone entered her life as an acquaintance her joy in life was rekindled and she knew she had been dead for years. Her dad nearly died this past fall, her sister in law has finally thrown in the towel in her cancer fight and is now just marking time. Mrs. Montoya chose to live when life joy presented itself to her. Unfortunately, I “woke up” about a month after her, and she was already gone. Does any of that justify infidelity? No. But after years of emptiness it is certainly a good explanation. She and I should not have gotten married, but we didn’t know that 12 years ago. In retrospect yeah, she should have said No to the guy and come to me and said, “WAKE UP! We have living to do.” But we don’t have the benefit of looking back until we’re past it, and my behavior up to that point probably made that idea about as pleasant as waking up a grizzly bear.

The kids have only ever seen him once, and that was at a social gathering. The two of them are not making hot monkey love in our bedroom while the kids are in the living room watching Sponge Bob. She picks the kids up from school and plays with them & feeds them and keeps them healthy. She loves them. Few will understand this, but she’s also showing them strength–to know and be true to yourself FIRST so that you don’t end up miserable from having become something or someone alien, just to please someone else. The divorce will bring change, but she and I wil treat each other with respect, the kids will adjust to the new arrangement, her guy will go away in time–he’s already backed off from her and cooled the relationship considerably. But he doesn’t matter except inasmuch as he was a catalyst for a change that needed to be made. I still think he’s a dick, though.