Need Advice From Divorced/Seperated Dopers

In My Humble Opinion
1

Yikes! A week ago I found out my wife had just started seeing another guy. She says at this point the extent of the physical relationship has been limited to kissing, but that she’s in love with him. I know her well enough that I believe her on this point, but it also is irrelevant. He’s got a failed marriage in the process of divorce and a kid he intends to keep (Mom’s abusive & bipolar). My wife and I have been together for 18 of the last 22 years, and just passed our 12th wedding anniversary. We have 3 kids, oldest is 8.

Cutting out all the sloppy crap that’s gone down in the last 7 days, it boils down to this: She just wants to be friends with me. You know, she loves my character, and respects me as an individual and all that, but she’s not interested in being my lover and confidant anymore. Seems, she’s found a fellow that is a promising replacement in that regard. She also doesn’t want a divorce–because she can’t imagine living wthout me. Isn’t that sweet!

In past threads I’ve been a huge opponent of divorce barring physical abuse. After the pain of the last week, let me just retract that position and say: you grow, I spoke from a point of ignorance. Some of you may recall a breakdown I had in late November. Well, I just had another (that makes 2 in 45 days!) despite meds. She’s aloof and makes smal attempts to comfort me, but only if I ask. Jesus, wouldn’t it just be human to show some concern? Even for a total stranger!

I know it’s only been a week, but during that time we’ve talked a lot and beat this whole situation to death. The other dude is nice enough (if a little stupid) and has agreed to stay out of the picture while we resolve our issues, and I’m not so insecure that I want to leave my partner of 22 years over a kiss or two. But to me it seems like the marriage is dead. If we were introduced today as strangers I can’t say for certain that I’d give her more than a passing nod and a glance, and if I were to get to know her I’d find her way too intense. Anyways…thanks for letting me vent. Here’s the questions:

How did you know it was over and when to proceed with splitting up (and how long were you married)?
How did you deal with the emotional pain in the mean time?

2

I’d suggest you seek a good therapist/counselor for both of you, possibly as a couple and individuals. Your work insurance, if you’re lucky enough to have it, might cover some or all of these costs.

  1. She needs to figure out why she’s chosen this path.
  2. You two, together, need to figure out what to do about this. This includes how it will affect your family.
  3. You need to learn how to cope with her behaviors and how it will affect yours.

However this turns out it’s going to be a tough road. Best of luck in working everything out, and remember there are a lot of people here willing to lend an ear or shoulder as needed.

3

I’ve been through two “marriages” and “divorces”. (The first marriage was legal, and divorce was legal. The second we lived together for five years and were more married than my first, but never legally.)

With my first marriage, I knew it was over when I looked at him and thought to myself, “Ya’ know, I really don’t need to take care of another kid. I’d better get out before I hate him.” That almost didn’t happen (me hating him), but I filed for divorce and moved on eventually. That time, I just kept busy.

With my second, we both wanted very different things in life. He wanted to devote serious time to his work (he’s an artist) and he didn’t think he could do that and have a family at the same time. (And, on his behalf, he was correct. HE couldn’t do art and have a family at the same time.) I wanted another baby (I had two kids from marriage one) and he was absolutely against it. I stuffed the strong, STRONG desire for another child for about three years until I just couldn’t anymore, and finally decided that I was becoming a person I didn’t like, trying to be the person he wanted me to be. The short version is that we split up, he painted and sold lots of art, and I had a baby by someone else (a long story and another post entirely…).

Unfortunately, I think the best (and probably only) remedy for what you’re going through is time and distance. Although I still loved my second ex, the pain of our changing relationship was tearing me apart. We both didn’t want the other out of our lives, but couldn’t figure out a way to keep each other in without a lot of pain. For us, about six months of not speaking and not seeing each other allowed us to get to a point where we could come together as friends–and we’ve been that way for the past 11 years. Granted, we didn’t have kids together, which might make the time and seperation near impossible. Also, if you’re not in a supportive counseling situation, I’d suggest you get into one, even if it’s a support group.

Oh, and stay away from intimate (physical and emotional) relationships. Although it may be real tempting to have a shoulder (or other body part) to lean on during this time, it’ll backfire in the long run. No one want to be a rebound buddy.

Hang in there, and I’m sorry that you’re having to go through this, but although it may not get any easier, it will get better.

4

I just want to be friend = I want you to be my “dick under glass” so I’ve always got someone to go back to if the new beau just wants the benefits of a relationship without the responsibility. She’s demoted you from husband to servant, The only thing left is to demote her from wife to stranger.

Live & learn, I’m not the same person I was before “The Big D” either. I’m not too sure what concern she could offer. I don’t know about you, but I certainly wouldn’t want someone around me out of pity, knowing that they’re effectively reading from a script counting the minutes until they can be with the other person. You just torture youself with “what ifs” in that case.

  1. Sadly there is no epiphany that says “now is the time” so much as a slide from infatuation to indifference. Once you reach that threshold its time to pull papers and get the process started. Of course, we didn’t have kids so that made things much simpler.

  2. First I drank, which is the wrong thing to do. But ultimately nothing gets you over the ex one like the next one. That, however, is a long-term thing. Rebounds aren’t my style.

5

I was married for 20 years, the first 15 of which were bliss … the last 5 of which saw us becoming increasingly indifferent to each other. By the end of this time we were living separate lives, pretty much.

To answer your questions:

How did you know it was over and when to proceed with splitting up? The day he came to me and said “Do you think this marriage is worth working to save?” and I said “No” without a twinge of pain. He broke down and I felt nothing at all.

How did you deal with the emotional pain in the mean time? I felt no emotional pain, and was indifferent to his. My daughter’s emotional pain, however, broke my heart … and we’re still working through that 3 years on.

6

Sorry this is happening to you. From what you’ve written, I’d consider the marriage to be shot.

Getting the paperwork done and getting one of you moved out will distract you a little.

The first while will be very tough, but you can get through it, many others have.

For your sake, don’t drag this out. Get it done, and once it’s done have the absolute minimum of contact with her.

As has already been posted, time and distance will heal you, and the distance is important. DON’T continue to get her car repaired or give/loan her money. Over is over! She wants somebody else, let that somebody have the problems along with the goodies.

In time, a woman will show up that needs you and wants what you have to offer. Concentrate on getting yourself ready for her, not on dwelling on the past.

Best wishes to you.

7

I’m sorry, Inigo, that you’re going through this. It’s a very difficult time. How I knew my marraige was over- I just didn’t care anymore. Maybe you haven’t reached that point yet, I don’t know. But it sounds like she has. I believe that most people should fight for their marraige (unless it involves abuse) until they know that it is truly dead. Only you and her know if you’ve reached that point, but I’d say the fact that she’s in love with someone else says that it is over.
I agree with the assessment that she may want to keep you as her dick under glass. Maybe you’ve even discussed living together “as roommates” for better financial security or “for the kids”… I would strongly discourage that. If you’re not going to be “together” then be apart. Staying together when it’s over, especially if one partner has another romantic relationship, is just a bad, bad idea. I’d advise separating as soon as it’s feasible.

8

Inigo, I feel your pain. Ouch! :frowning:

I don’t have time right now to read the whole thread or compose my full comments, but here’s a couple of quick thoughts –

You really need to do the counselling if it’s at all possible. It might help you remember why you fell in love in the first place, figure out where things went stale, & renew your marriage. Or maybe not. But at least you’ll know you tried. You don’t want to spend the rest of your days thinking :smack: “I shoulda done this or said that.”

In my case, in retrospect, I can pinpoint the day my marriage died. I came home from work with news that I was being “outsourced”, and rather than sympathy I got berated for all my shortcomings, real and imagined. At least she didn’t have another guy already lined up. It didn’t take to become clear that our relationship was dying; we did counseling, had lots of intense discussions, etc. It was two years later before she moved out; another two before we finalized the divorce. Even though hindsight tells me all that effort was futile, and at times it felt a lot like the Fire Swamp, I can sleep at night knowing I did everything I could.

The single most important thing is the kids. They need to know it’s not their fault, and that no one is abandoning them. I insisted on full 50% custody. In some ways it was hard on them to go back and forth between two houses, but they’e much better off for knowing that both parents were still there for them, even if not at the same time. You hear of couples who stay together “for the kids”; I really don’t think that teaching them how to live in a loveless marriage is doing them a favor.

So by all means, try and save your marriage. But if you don’t, it’s not the end of the world. Just feels like it at the time. Hang in there!

9

This is probably the most difficult public posting I’ve ever made. Bear with me if it’s disjointed.

Back in May, I left my husband. There was no physical abuse, and I left - despite trying to convince myself it was for other reasons - because I’d fallen in lust with another man. Emotionally, I was (am) immature; my husband was 12 years my senior, it was his second and my first marriage, and we’d been - so we both thought, truth be told - very happy up until this point. Sure, we’d had some problems, but it’s a rare relationship which is completely free from strife.

My husband had had two surgeries in quick succession, and I became his nurse very quickly; I wasn’t qualified emotionally or physically to deal with the situation, and rather than seek help and counselling where and when it was needed, I did the cowardly thing and hid inwardly. I put my own feelings first, and when I felt neglected, emotionally abused and taken for granted, I ran to the first person who had shown an interest. After spending years with a man to whom I’d promised fidelity, love and respect, I ran away and into the arms of someone I didn’t (and don’t) know. Instead of trying to fix what was wrong, I gave up without trying.

I suppose the reason for me posting this is almost as selfish as my initial actions…whilst your wife has indeed screwed you over, there IS, I think, the tiniest chance that she’s just very, very misguided in this and does indeed love you more than she realises or cares to acknowledge. It sounds so terribly familiar to me. I don’t know - but having done something horribly similar myself, all I do know is that I made a huge error. I lost the best friend and only man I’d ever really loved, over a foolish misconception. My doing entirely, and I’m living with the consequences now. It will take something akin to a miracle to fix things, IF indeed it’s even remotely possible - but it might be something worth considering.

One of the few positives to come from this entire heartbreak is my soon-to-be-ex-husband is happy now with someone who is much more suited to him, and can treat him with the respect and love he deserves. You will be ok - you WILL be happy, with or without your wife. But if there’s a chance that this marriage can be saved, perhaps it’s worth pursuing.

Sometimes we don’t know how stupid we can be until we actually have a chance to screw things up royally.

10

I would first suggest a little breathing room. You’re very angry right now, which is understandable. Don’t make any decisions while you’re this pissed off. Take a little time away, calm down, and decide exactly what you want. When you come back, discuss it again. Find out what she wants. If at all possible, follow Shibb’s advice, get to a counsellor together and get some help working through it. Even if she won’t go with you, see one on your own.
If you decide to go through with it, please keep one thing very firmly in mind: do not use your children as leverage. No matter how tempting it may seem, and it will at some point. They have no defenses against you and their mother, and they are going to be very vulnerable to what they see and hear from you both. Try to make this as easy for them as possible.

11

Married just 18 months, lived together five years. No children.

Knew it was over when he moved in with his girlfriend. Did make a half assed effort to save things, but I’m fairly pragmatic. He left in October or November. By the second week of January I’d filed for divorce and cancelled all joint credit cards, closed all bank accounts. Actually, the credit cards got closed as soon as I discovered I was paying for her Christmas presents with the December statement, and was one of the reasons we didn’t survive more than one session of counseling.

How to deal with the pain…I surrounded myself with good friends. Had a bunch of “standing friendship dates.” Did a bunch of stuff we didn’t do when we were together because he didn’t enjoy (didn’t eat fast food, did eat Mexican. Saw romantic comedies instead of action movies, stretched out in bed with too many covers). Showed up anywhere I knew he was going to be looking great (living well is the best revenge).

Best wishes. And congrats on being self aware. I too was a different person with different ideas about marriage before I was divorced.

(and my unsolicited advice. You may end up divorced. You may end up together. Do make it clear that you are not paying for her to buy lingere to prance in front of her boyfriend while she figures it out. He’s “a little stupid” and going through a divorce with a child involved. If your wife wants that heartache on top of her own marriage/child problems that’s her business. But its hard to live in the same house with someone intimately involved in a divorce (not to mention finacially tied) and not have those problems become your problems)

12

Some good advice in this thread.

One thing I’ll say, though, is that since she has someone else, you might want to think about severing financial ties from her, or at least keep a very close eye on your financial situation. Given that “the other man” is going through a divorce, it seems possible that he could ask your wife for money, or she might be tempted to “help him out” voluntarily. Make it clear that until your marital issues are resolved, any money she spends on that relationship is HER money – it is not to come from joint or household money. (My first husband was nearly bankrupted after his first wife decided to help herself to his money to set up house for herself and her boyfriend. It was MY money that kept him from bankruptcy court.) She should not force your family into possible financial difficulty over this guy.

Robin

13

My heart goes out to you. My situation is/was quite similar so I can relate very well to what you are going through.

I won’t repeat what so many before me have already said so eloquently.

My only advice to you is that you move on and move out of this situation as soon as you can. It’s a horrendously tough decision to make but I found that once you do make it and commit to it, it gets a little easier.

Once out and on your own, you will start to gain a new perspective on things and though you will have some really difficult times (evenings without my kids are still especially difficult for me), you will learn to get through it.

People, dear friends and family, have told me on many occasions that I will learn something from this ordeal and be better for it. I knew it was true, but I could not imagine I’d ever feel that way. Now, a year or so out, I know it’s true. I’m not certain I’m better for having gone through all this. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’m very much the same as I was. The only thing this entire ordeal reminded me is that I’m much stronger and more determined than I had remembered. It has also helped me remember that I really like myself and that I’m more and better than my ex ever realized.

My hope and wish for you is that you come to the same realization in time.

That, and stay as close as you can with the kids. It won’t be easy but worth every bit of effort you put into it.

14

Divorce is a means by which a man’s testicles are removed through his wallet. -Robin Williams

The comedian is right. Been there. Done that. Burned the tee shirt. Having played the ‘nice guy’ card, and ended up with a four-alarm assraping, my advice is to circle the wagons and protect yourself as if you were being attacked by a bloodthirsty horde, because you will be-they’re called lawyers and the judicial system, with your soon-to-be ex leading the charge. Money, assets, anything that you can squirrel away, give to a friend for safekeeping or otherwise make secure, you’d better protect-or prepare to lose.

It sucks, friend-but you’ll feel better after the dust settles of you behave proactively right now. :wink:

15

Twice married 9 years and now happily remarried going on 5 years.

This is Probably going to sound unduly harsh, but it’s the cold hard truth, if anybody is offended take it to the Pit. Inigo you want to know when it was over, well it was at the point when your wife told you she’s in love with someone else. Make no mistake, she’s not exactly hinting at finer things to come, she’s clearly said: “I value this [lust/spark/love/fuck] more than I value my marriage”. It doesn’t get much clearer than that.

As for this nonsense:

Translates to: “Not only do I not respect you enough to let you have the complete break you deserve by leaving, but please stick around and play doormat in case I need to have a safe place to land if this fling doesn’t work out”.

End of the cold hard truth.

Can your marriage be saved, I dunno, maybe, it depends on both parties trying to work things out. However from what you’ve written that doesn’t sound like what’s going on. You need to get some distance so you can think clearly, then follow some of the above regarding finances and child raising.

16

Well consider this, no matter what your personal stand, you can’t be married to someone who doesn’t acknowleage it.

17

I knew it was over when, just days before our third anniversary, she said “I don’t know if I want to stay married” and refused to see a counselor.

It’s over when she says she respects you as an individual but is also “aloof and makes small efforts to comfort” you, but only if you ask.

How did I deal with the emotional pain? I drank too much, worked too much, watched too much TV and cried too much.

Are you still sleeping in the same bed? Go sleep on the couch. Or ask her to move out entirely. The last thing you need is to have her snuggle up to you while asleep and think it might mean something.

Are you seeing a counselor? If not, go quickly. If you already are, consider going twice a week, whether she’ll go with you or not.

Ask her to hand over her credit cards and start opening her own accounts.

Try to get wrapped around the problem a little better, and then get yourself a lawyer.

18

I agree with everything everyone else said. No idea if it’s salvageable. But as for your questions:

  1. 8 years, not officially. Oh I knew it was coming. The pulling away. The staying out way too late in bars after work. The return to substance use (wouldn’t call it abuse). Other stuff. But I hung in there, doing my best, faithful to the last, etc., but I knew I was a soldier on a suicide mission.

  2. How did … how did I survive? I didn’t. I died.

2a. How did … I keep going anyway, despite being dead? When you’re at work, you focus on work. When you’re driving, focus on driving. Focused on relocation plans. Focused on other distractions. Continued positive action. Pretend you’re alive.

2b. How did … I not turn into an enraged, embittered soul, despite such incredible treachery? Easy. Sometimes, I pretended she had died in a tragic car accident. The kids too. (No kids, but we’d been planning.) Yep, pretended my whole family had been killed. Day after day after day after day. I knew I was pretending, knew that out there in the world there were people who had REALLY lost their whole families, but it got me through some days, and kept the dark side away. While it may help you to remember the good times, view things in a good light, etc., I do not recommend this; don’t do it.

–

My own advice (sorry, can’t resist), IF it is applicable to you:

As for wants-to-be-friends, she’s lying. She may be lying to herself about it, though, not to you. If the chips are down, she won’t have your back. It’s the kind of friendship where she comes first.

If you haven’t already, figure out how to mention the past relationship in polite company and casual conversation without going off the deep end. (I never went off the deep end.) That is, you don’t want to unload on anyone. No long tirades. If the subject comes up, then “Things just didn’t work out.” (neutral commentary) Or, “She ran off with someone she decided she liked better.” (commentary assigning responsibility where it belongs) Period. Or, “One day, Brad Pitt’s twin brother pulled up in a convertible and said hello. She always liked convertibles.” Period. (commentary assigning responsibility). Vent all you want here. Not in the real world. This helps for the next subject.

Start seeing other women. ASAP. Don’t do anything rash like get remarried tomorrow, but get out there, you know? Deal with the ex- as a neighbor, or casual acquaintance, or polite stranger, or nanny, whatever. Probably help with the kids if there’s no fighting.

If you think it’ll help, go hold some kind of Ending Ceremony. On some bright moonlit night, burn all your photos of her, chanting, As things begin, So must they end, It’s over. You get the idea. Big party. Pizza. Heck, even invite THEM if you’re inspired to, and give them a good, happy send off.

Go hug the kids. Tell them to always tell the truth, no matter what.

–

To conclude on a bright note, I met the real Inigo Montoya, Mandy Patinkin once, briefly.

19

bwah! I always say “he met his soulmate, unfortunately he was married to me at the time.”

My sister says “its hard to be married to someone who still dates other people.”

I actually think that as difficult as infidelity is at the time, it is at least a reason people understand. I think its a lot different if your glib response is “he was spending me into the poorhouse” or “we just decided we wanted other things.” That opens you up for the judgement of people like the old Inigo - those are things people think you can work out.

20

My heart goes out to you. I know you must be in a lot of pain.

I have never been married or divorced and I don’t mean to make light but there’s an old joke that goes something like this;

Q: Why is divorce so expensive?

A: Because it’s worth it !

This is only funny because there is a grain of truth in it, ask anyone who’s divorced and they’ll agree.

She’d told you it’s over. Ignore everything else.

My advice, (worth every nickel you paid for it, I might add) remind yourself of this fact every half hour until you truly get it.

And breath. Sure it sounds easy but it’s incredibly important. Whenever you’re stressed, tense, upset, frustrated, confused, angry, bitter. The first thing to do is breath, deeply, slowly and with purpose. Breath in deep clean breathes and with each one close your eyes, picture a big full moon. Do it again, about 5 - 10 times before you respond or decide anything. Breath knowing, truly knowing, this will pass, things will get better. Know it.

We all feel your pain and are sending you our best wishes.

Please keep us posted.