I don’t think that constant exposure is necessary before you can say it causes negative health consequences…but that’s neither here nor there. We both agree that the lady’s complaint is stupid and rude. If she didn’t want the smoke to be “killing” her, being in a bar is the worst thing to do.
And that, I feel, is where the focus should be. Not her weight. Her statement was ludicrous because of the setting in which it was made, and would have been just as ludicrous had she been in perfect shape. That’s why the fact that chowder feels guilty over his own response is perfectly justifiable, because he took things to a playground level. He humiliated her for reasons that had nothing to do with defending his own actions. It may be an understandable response, but not deserving of “atta boys” (and I’m not saying you are doing that).
Posters in this thread are saying he did nothing wrong, she’s fat and therefore was just asking for it, blah blah blah. And I disagree. Now if that makes me a whiner then boo freakin hoo. I figure we should be able to have an adult conversation about a trifle little incident without being disrespectful to disagreeing viewpoints. Don’t you agree?
His response wasn’t really about defending his actions though, but rather deriding her complaint. His own actions being justified is pretty much a given; he’s in a bar that allows smoking, and in all probability having someone complain to him about it would take him aback. Her complaint being absurd was more evident as a target of attack than his actions being justified were evident as a subject for defense. If you’re crossing the street on a green light and a car nearly flattens you halfway across, the first thing you’re going to do is scream at the driver for being a dumbass, not scream about your right to passage.
His choice of retort? As I said before, it wasn’t a very defensible choice of attack points, but once again, it was the most evident and the first thing anyone of a mind to return a sharp riposte would latch on to in the split second they have to do so. Does that make it right? No. Does that make him a bad person or any less of a human being? Hell no. Frankly, he was probably nicer than many others would have been in the same situation. You’re talking about a pub full of footballers here. Expecting to be treated with politeness and courtesy after being such a douchebag would require a sense of entitlement so vast it has its own event horizon. Whatever she gets thrown back in her face, however rude or unjust, is par for the course.
Nobody is saying she was asking for it because she was fat. The argument is whether his response, an admittedly personal attack on her weight, was as just response to her impersonal but impertinent attack on his smoking where it is permitted. And I think everyone agrees that it was not the most effective line of response. I think however that it was not completely irrelevant, as her attack on him for his smoking affecting her health is, at least tangentally, related to her weight being a factor on her health. Again, it is not exactly analogous but under the circumstances it is understandable how, in that split second he had to launch a counterattack, he would latch on to that one particular topic.
No one said he was a bad human being. If you agree his response wasn’t right, then we are in agreement.
Right, and my opinion is that his response was not “as just” as hers. Others apparently disagree and that’s fine.
And this is where we disagree. The lady was rude for making a overdramatic deal over something that presumably affected her comfort. But the OP was more rude because he stuck his nose into business that had absolutely no bearing on him (her weight) and used it to humiliate her. In other words, he used her medical condition to deflect away her comment, instead of stating what was more obvious and relevant. THAT HE’S IN A BAR, FOR PETE’S SAKE.
Now I’m sure if the OP had made that comment to someone visibly afflicted with cancer or some other kind of chronic disease, everyone would see how low his retort was. But I get the feeling that because the bitch was fat–and obesity is seen as more of moral weakness instead of a medical condition–it’s considered fair game to use her weight in this way. This, I suspect, is where picnurse is coming from with his/her comments about bigotry.
I shouldn’t have to say this, but I will anyway. I’m not fat (underweight actually), don’t smoke but rarely take issue with those who do (sometimes I even like a little second-hand smoke), and I don’t think chowder is a bad guy (even though I would have “tsked tsked” him had I been with him that night).
Smoking in pubs has already been banned in Scotland. Suprisingly it’s been adheared to. That said lots of folks now stand just outside the front door of pubs smoking.
Smoking per se is something I don’t particularly like but pre-ban I accepted that if I went into a pub there’s likely to be smoke. Bit like going to a disco then complaining about there being loud music. She was out of order for being a bitch about something that was both legal and expected in the circumstances.
If she’d complained about your supporting England then her complaint would have been valid. But unfortunately that’s not been made illegal yet
The be all and end all of the matter is quite simply the fact she stuck her nose in where it wasn’t wanted or even justified, I replied somewhat harshly but I did not latch onto her size deliberately.
As I said earlier my response even had she been as thin as a stick would more than likely have taken a similar line…for example “Well I guess you’ll die of starvation long before my smoke gets to you.”
I have nothing at all against any sized person…this I’ve also said earlier.
And what would you have said had the person been normal sized? I mean, seriously, at what point would it have occured to you to simply shame them on the basis of their indisputable stupidity (like saying, “You’re in a BAR, Einstein. Cry me a river and then shut the hell up.”). That would have generated just as many laughs from your peers, would have resulted in the same outcome (shut up the ole hag), and would have likely not haunted you like your actual response did.
Taking advantage of your opponent’s maladies and physical defects–when they are incidental to the egregiousness of their actions–only makes you look like a kid who can’t make a comeback without hitting below the belt.
I really haven’t the foggiest idea what I would have said if the lady had been normal size and it was not my intention to elicit laughs from anyone and nor was it intended to humiliate the woman.
I responded without thinking and that is my last word on the subject.
chowder -you can come watch soccer with me, anytime, and you can even smoke–just don’t chain smoke, ok?
I am normal sized, whatever that may mean…
I am somewhat amazed that we are supposed to feel sorry for this rude woman and be sensitive to her “issues”, if any, when she acted a total asshat to not just the OP, but to everyone else within range of her flapping arms. It was a 10 second interchange that happened days ago. It is not a permanent stain on the OP’s record (for Brits, that’s a blot on the copy book). Get over it, already. Jeesh.
But fetus’s comment still does not imply that “she’s fat and therefore she was just asking for it.”
If i understand him correctly, he is:
(a) making a simple statement about the health problems associated with obesity,
and
(b) noting that the woman’s obesity only became an issue after she was a jerkoff to the OP.
For you to support your claim that people are arguing that “she’s fat and therefore she was just asking for it,” you would have to demonstrate that those people would insult her for being fat without provocation.
We have merely been saying that, if you are rude asshole to a complete stranger in a public setting, you probably shouldn’t be surprised if they act like an asshole in return.
You are reading too much into my comments. The “she is fat and therefore she was asking for it” bit was not meant to suggest that the OP’s response was unprovoked, but rather that her size in some shape or form justified the kind of response he made. “She is fat and therefore asking for this kind of type of retort” is a more precise way of putting it.
I have no problem with the OP being an asshole in reponse to assholery. I just had a issue with the way he went about it and explained why, as opposed to telling him that he had nothing to feel guilty about as many others have done.
Jeesh. Guess I should have just kept my unpopular opinions to myself because they’ve turned this thread into a debate.
Here is a brand new study on second hand smoke, showing that your smoking was her business.
I’m not carrying a chip, you obviously only read part of my last post. I acknowledged your action not being typical of you. If you were not offended by her weight, you would have fought back fairly, not by attacking something unrelated to her rude remark. I never said she wasn’t rude to you.
BTW, welcome to the board, you will, I’m sure, be a great asset to the mix. You have shown your ability to argue without becoming abusive. We all appreciate that.
Completely irelevant. No-one has made any argument about the dangers—or otherwise—of secondhand smoke.
As i’ve already said in this thread, i’m a non-smoker who hates the smell of smoke, and who is a firm believer in the dangers of secondhand smoke.
But i also believe that, if i go to a private establishment where i know that smoking is allowed, any fault for sucking in other people’s smoke lies with me, and not with them. I can easily avoid the smoke by not going there.
Gentlemen/Ladies, I’d like to thank you all for the input to my post. I don’t feel so badly as I did, after all it’s been a week now since the incident and I’ve got over it. Added to which England have a serious game tonight against Portugal (I hope the lady isn’t in the boozer) and I need to conserve my energies and gird up my loins for some heavy drinking whether we win or not,
Thanks to Picunurse for the welcome and I shall be joining the SDMB as soon as my guest period expires, it’s quite good on here innit?
That dude has nothing on several handfuls of women I’ve seen at my school. Not even close.
I never said she was asking for humiliation by being fat. It’s unfortunate that she ended up getting embarrassed like that. I’m always sad to see people have that happen to them in public and I’m sure I would have cringed if I were there.
However…
A person who is:
Morbidly obese
Sitting in a bar where smoking is legal and expected
Presumably drinking
Probably also being served a gigantic bowl of peanuts if she’s drinking, thusly ingesting large amounts of sodium and raising her blood pressure which may already be high
Rooting for the English national team
isn’t going to be much worse off for one more person in a bar already filled with smoke lighting up, and it’s utterly ridiculous for her to flap her arms around and protest about it. I’m not happy that someone who’s probably more likely than the next to already have self-esteem issues, is being humiliated in public. I certainly am not going to pretend that it’s likely to help her. But when you come out and act like that–not based on being overweight, but on being in a basically hotboxed bar whining around one dude lighting another stick–she shouldn’t have been shocked when the world didn’t roll over to satisfy her whims. Fuck her. Nobody owes her anything, any more than anybody owes the smokers anything. Does chowder walk into non-smoking establishments and demand to smoke? I wouldn’t know, of course, but I doubt it. If he did, though, the lynching on these boards would be so severe he’d feel his neck tightening from six time zones away.
Now, I’ve smoked, I’ve drank, I’ve eaten, I’ve done all the drugs and stuffed my face with high-sodium food and I have high blood pressure. I know I have no right to tell other people how to live their lives, so I don’t. The tiny bit of smoke that might flow in to her nostrils has nothing on what the sodium and alcohol are probably already doing to her. And it doesn’t matter whether or not she was endangering her health in any other ways, anyway; she could’ve been Mother Theresa and I’d still think her an ass to tell chowder not to partake of a legal indulgence in a place where it’s expected and already being done by lots of other people at the same time, especially using such rude histrionics. Fuck her.
Eh. IMO it’s not a good idea to fight fire with fire, but he has no obligation to any voluntary bar patron not to light up.
…Only because she was choosing to be in a bar already filled with smoke.
Probably some variation of “Sorry…I always like to have a cigarette before sex. Wanna come back to my place?”
I don’t think the OP did anything wrong. He didn’t swear at her or call her a stupid bitch or anything. I don’t understand why it’s so offensive to tell a fat person they’re fat. Would you get mad if someone said you’re very tall or very brunette? If you don’t like being heavy lose some weight but don’t expect the world to pretend you’re a size two.
