The Nephilim

Comments on Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
#1

There is a series of non-fiction books that deal exclusively with who these mysterious visitors to earth were. The author is Zecharia Sitchin, and this series is known as “The Earth Chronicles.” Sitchin proves that most of the questionable antics in the Old Testament are in fact edited versions of Babylonian and Sumerian stories.
Basically what Sitchin posits, is this:

the Nephilim were a group of astronauts from another planet, this planet was called Nibiru by the Sumerians. They came to earth several hundred thousand years ago. They established the first human civilization by laying out their settlements in a grid, establishing their base in Sumer. These people were also called “Annunaki”. The Annunaki took primitive humans and spliced Annunaki DNA into them, to create a “worker.” Later, these workers were perfected so that they too could procreate. After many thousands of years, the Annunaki’s children and the new homo sapiens began interbreeding, as the quotation in the Bible mentions “…sons of the gods taking the daughters of men as wives…” etc.
The Annunaki home planet was again nearing earth, and the Annunaki saw that the gravitational effects would cause the ice sheet at the poles to slip, causing tidal waves and an eventual deluge. The Annunaki left earth and waited out the Flood in their orbiting spacecraft, while most of humanity perished. The “seed” of humanity was preserved, as one of the sons of the ruler of the Annunaki (Enki, the benefactor of mankind) instructed his servant Utnapishtim to make a submersible boat to survive the Flood. This person is also called Noah, but the names mean the same thing.
The Annunaki founded the Indus River Valley civilization, a faction moved into Egypt and became known as Ptah, Ra and others, and Ishtar, Innanna and many other “gods” were really just the children of the original Annunaki and their earth-partners. And so on.
The books are incredibly fascinating, and give a wealth of history about the foundations of civilization, even if one rejects the central premise of beings from another planet ruling earth. They are a great read, wonderfully well-written, and are vastly entertaining.

#2

N.B. The original post refers to the latest Staff Report on the “giant sons of God”. The staff report will be published shortly.

Link to Staff Report: Who were the “giant sons of God” in the Bible?

[Edited by C K Dexter Haven on 11-20-2001 at 11:15 AM]

#3

P.S. Point of clarification - when in the first sentence of your post you said “There is a series of non-fiction books …” I assume you meant “There is a series of fiction books …”

#4

No, those books are historical, and examine Sumerian writings, carvings, stelae and all that. From these texts there is the tale of the Annunaki, presented as FACT. These books are not stories, and the information in them is no more fictional than the Bible’s stories are.

The Staff Report attempted to answer the question of the Nephilim while staying in the framework of the Bible. This can’t be done, because the authors of the Old Testament stories redacted, edited, and synthesized the stories from Sumer. If one goes to the Sumerian versions of these stories, they make sense, so that is why I recommended reading the Sitchin books. The first one is called “The Twelfth Planet” and a casual thumbing through the pages will reveal that Sitchin is a very capable scholar, and that the books are well-written.

#5

Yes, Anvil, you’re right–those books are historical. Seriously, Arnold, he’s right. I have just come back from visiting Sitchin’s website, and it’s the most masterful blend of fact and fiction I have ever seen.

Part of it is non-fiction, Anvil. You’re right, part of it is perfectly true.
[ul]
[li]The Sumerians were real people.[/li][li]There really is a book called the Bible.[/li][li]There really are other planets.[/li][li]There really was a civilization in the Indus Valley.[/li][li]Sitchin is vastly entertaining.[/li][/ul]
However, parts of it are pure fiction.
[ul]
[li]No astronauts from another planet reseeded the Earth with alien DNA.[/li][/ul]

http://www.sitchin.com/

Geeeeeeeeeeeeez. :eek:

Gulping with amazement, I can only stand and stare. As I said, truly the most–masterful–blend of “fact” and “fiction” I have ever seen, and remember, kiddies, Grandma remembers Erich Von Daniken the first time around.

So here’s Sitchin’s “proof”–proof of what isn’t exactly clear, since I haven’t read the book. My loss, I know. :rolleyes:

From Cultural Responses to Climate Change During the Late Holocene, by Peter deMenocal (with Ed Cook, Heidi Cullen, Harvey Weiss, Ray Bradley, Dave Hodell, Mark Brenner, Lonnie Thompson).

Proof! Proof positive! Sitchins was right, way back in 1985! Are you blind? Can’t you see it? It’s confirmed, by serious scientists! It was published in Science magazine, for heaven’s sake!

Great stuff. I love it. :smiley:

#6

<< The Staff Report attempted to answer the question of the Nephilim while staying in the framework of the Bible. This can’t be done, because the authors of the Old Testament stories redacted, edited, and synthesized the stories from Sumer. >>

Well, I naturally disagree. I chose to answer the question within the framework of the Bible, and I think that CAN be done. I done it.

Shakespeare borrowed heavily from other sources to create (say) MACBETH. But if you ask a question about the three witches, you must answer from the play. To answer with a lengthy discourse on ancient witchcraft, on the historical Macbeth, or on modern wicca, is to side-step the issue.

A question about how the Biblical author(s) edited or adapted earlier stories to fit their monotheistic view would be an interesting topic on its own, but it would be silly to limit such a question to this small (and somewhat insignificant) point of Nephilim.

The notion that the Nephilim are space aliens, sowing their seed (ahem) on earth, is … is… [/stops laughing long enough to get control of the keyboard] … interesting. It’s such a bizarre blend of two conflicting viewpoints: (1) taking the bible as literal word-for-word truth, and (2) rejecting the bible totally in favor of “scientific” explanation.

Actually, of course, the Nephilim were the baseball team that evolved (in America) into the Giants.

#7

You are all absolutely correct. There are no other planets capable of life in the entire universe. The mere idea of extra-terrestrial intelligent life is ludicrous in the extreme. How silly to even suppose that those ancient civilizations might have actually MEANT some of the things they wrote down as their history. They were all ignorant savages. It’s laughable to suggest that the structures of Ba’albek (in Lebanon) or of Tihuanaco or Teotihuacan used any sort of modern science, because we KNOW those damn Indians and Lebanese goatherders were totally ignorant.

Just go ahead and explain how the megalithic structures incorporating 400 ton stones into wall joins so precise that not even a knife blade can be inserted into the join. These artifacts from a destroyed civilization exist. These things are really there. Sitchin takes the stories these people hold as fact and relates them to the overall development of human civilization.

What I find outrageous is that the Straight Dope scoffs at date THEY HAVE NOT EVEN EXAMINED. That is hardly what I would call scientific, studied, or even well-reasoned. The Straight Dope is supposed to actually get off their lazy asses and do some research before setting us all straight as the definitive source.

The stories in the Old Testament have been PROVEN to be later adaptations of stories/tales/historical events from preceding cultures. These preceding cultures viewed the many Nephilim as being semi-divine, and when the stories were adapted into the Hebrew culture, they were switched to a single Deity. This is why God is constantly changing his mind, smiting peoples, then sparing them, going into rages, then calming down, referring to himself in the plural, and so on. As I mentioned, the Sitchin books do provide an awesome wealth of historical information about these vanished cultures, whether one accepts the notion of space-faring beings or not.

Rejecting conclusions out of hand because they do not sound plausible is not what people come to the Straight Dope for. Explain why humanity suddenly skipped several million years of evolution, going from apemen to CroMagnon in a period of a couple hundred years. Why do the crops grown in the ancient civilizations bear the mark of being genetically cultivated and engineered for thousands of years? Why are there no precursors to their languages? Why are the megalithic structures still standing, and no one knows how they could have been built? Why do ancient structures around the world show signs of vitrification, that is, the stone was melted by intense heat, the sort of heat generated by atomic energy? Why is the area in Lebanon where Sodom and Gomorrah are thought to have stood strewn with Lebanese “glass” which is 99 per cent pure, the likes of which can only be had through atomic energy? And so on. At least Sitchin has gone to the trouble of using scientific analysis to explain these things. The ancient peoples said they were visited by beings “who fell” to earth, hence the term “Nephilim.” The ancients recorded the actions of these people, and to them, they were not “gods” as we understand the term. At some point, modern people have to recognize the fact that advanced civilizations have indeed existed here on earth, and were wiped out.

If you don’t like anomalies or antediluvial research, that is entirely your prerogative. It is juvenile and unscholarly to insult and mock those who are attempting to understand the many curious riddles that exist all over the earth.

#8

<< At least Sitchin has gone to the trouble of using scientific analysis to explain these things >>

Right.

Let me pose a question: why is it that Sitchin et al only explore Bible stories, to try to find some explanation that validates them? Why do they never try to validate the Greek myths? the Germanic/Norse myths? the Aztec myths?

The answer is what I said before: they’d like the Bible stories to be “valid”, even if it means positing extra-terrestrials.

Scientific analysis involves positing a theory and then finding evidence to support that theory. Your heroes provide no evidence other than fanicful suppositions from the texts themselves, and outright lies (like the lie that we can’t explain how the pyramids were built without modern equipment, etc.) Puh-leeze.

For information on why the Americans could not have won the Revolutionary War without extra-terrestrial help, go to [ website deleted by Administrator ]

[Edited by C K Dexter Haven on 11-19-2001 at 07:43 AM]

#9

I’ll be the first to admit that there’s almost certainly intelligent life on other planets. That’s not what we’re being asked to believe, though. We’re being asked to believe that:
First, said planet occasionally passes close enough to Earth to cause massive floods via tidal effects.
Second, the inhabitants of said planet had interplanetary spaceflight at the time of the dawn of civilizations on Earth.
Third, that the alien genetic code was sufficiently similar to that of terrestrial life that they were able to successfully splice the two.
Fourth, that given the ability to do all these things, the aliens further chose to do so.
Fifth, that having chosen to thus interfere with Earth, they have since decided to abandon us.
Sixth, that through some mysterious mechanism, there is at present no evidence whatsoever for the existence either of said planet, or of anomolous genetic material in the genome of any organism on Earth.

#10

[extreme sarcasm]
What, you’ve never read Velikovsky? We know these things are really true in our hearts, but we repress the knowledge because of the collective racial trauma we suffered. But take heart, Dianetics shows how we can cure ourselves of these engrams.
[/extreme sarcasm]

#11

<<Let me pose a question: why is it that Sitchin et al only explore Bible stories, to try to find some explanation that validates them? Why do they never try to validate the Greek myths? the Germanic/Norse myths? the Aztec myths?

The answer is what I said before: they’d like the Bible stories to be “valid”, even if it means positing extra-terrestrials.

Scientific analysis involves positing a theory and then finding evidence to support that theory. Your heroes provide no evidence other than fanicful suppositions from the texts themselves, and outright lies (like the lie that we can’t explain how the pyramids were built without modern equipment, etc.) Puh-leeze.>>

First, Haven, who are the “et al” you refer to, above? I was talking only about Sitchin. Second, Sitchin is not trying to prove Bible stories, and in fact, does not believe the Bible to be a reliable book outside of its ability to tell us about ancient kings, kingdoms, genealogies, wars, and cities that have been lost. To reiterate: Sitchin is not trying to prove Bible stories. Third, Sitchin’s second book, “The Stairway to Heaven” does explain all sorts of Greek, Chaldean, and Mesopotamian myths. His fourth book, “The Lost Realms”, deals exclusively with the myths and ancient histories of the Americas, and focuses on Peru and Mexico. He shows that Viracocha and Quetzcoatl are probably new world terms for the beings called Ptah and Ra in Egypt, Enki and Marduk in Sumer and so on.

Sitchin attempts to explain all stories of “olden gods,” whether Egyptian, Akkadian, Peruvian, Greek, Norse, whatever, as the true histories of a forgotten time. He is not trying to advance one set of “gods” as superior to another. In contrast, he has shown that the gods of the Indus River civilization, the Peruvian/Olmec/Inca civilization, the far East, etc., are all related and basically talk about the same types of beings, so that in fact they are more alike than different.

Even if one wholly rejects the notion of a Judao-Christian god as told in the Bible, the stories in the Old Testament are some of the oldest stories of mankind. Their roots are in other cultures. One does not need to have any sort of religious belief to be able to examine and explain these earlier stories. Even things like the “Epic of Gilgamesh” have been proven to be accounts of historical events, and not merely myths. A knee-jerk rejection of any information stemming from the Bible is an indication of close-mindedness. Many people have an ax to grind against religions, that’s their right. None of this has anything to do with Scientology, although in this country we allow even Scientologists the benefit of the doubt. Why not change your Scientology comments to “Jews” and see how wonderfully your opinions will be embraced? It’s your right not to like someone or some group of someones, or some religious creed or sect, but here in the good ol’ USA those people are entitled to their beliefs.

So let me again reiterate: if anyone is interested in the stories and legends and myths of the ancient world, thousands of years before the Greeks, then pick up a copy of “The Twelfth Planet.” At the very least you will come away with an amazing history lesson, even if your mind shuts down at the mention of life outside our solar system.

#12

Actually anvil, this is your position. You are the one positing that ancient structures were constructed with the help of aliens, because the natives were too stupid and ignorant to do it themselves. Us rational people are the ones saying that the natives built Stone Henge, the Pyramids, the Easter Island statues, etc. all by their lonesomes.

Show me some evidence any of this crap is true, then I’ll respond. Just to pick on your first point, careful examination of fossils has demonstrated that modern man’s evolution during the Pleiocene was at a rate of only 7 darwins. Other animal populations have demonstrated rates as high as 37 darwins, and as high as 200,000 darwins in laboratory experiments! (from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section5.html#pred28). So, contrary to your nonsense, no explanation is needed for mankind’s rapid evolution: while impressive, it is entirely explainable without involving visiting aliens.

#13

Opus, the evidence I keep offering, is the Zecharia Sitchin series of books that talk allllllllllll about this stuff. That is the proof. Accept it or reject it AFTER you have examined it. That’s what sane, rational people do.

And yes, you’re right. I don’t believe those ancient structures were built by the indigenous peoples themselves. Why? Because there is technology involved that surpasses our current technology. There are stones used in ancient structures that cannot be lifted by any modern cranes, period. However, I do believe the ancient people were not stupid at all. I believe they were incredibly adaptable, resourceful, and able to make paradigm shifts in understanding with relative ease. I believe they knew what they were talking about when they described these off-world visitors “flying” around. You should also know that the history of India, if you ask an Indian, goes back 40,000 years, and that they will tell you that in ancient times the ancient Indians were capable of flying various aircraft (which they called “viman”).

The Sitchin books are very well researched and are written in a very clear manner that is easy to grasp. So again, with high hopes, I implore people to pick these books up, read them, and THEN make some conclusions. Reading won’t hurt you.

#14

Live and learn. I had never heard of an attempt to explain ALL ancient mythologies in one fell swoop. There are several attempts to explain Biblical stories/myths in terms of “natural” events (although I’m not sure that space aliens count as a natural event.) If Sitchin is actually trying to “prove” all ancient mythologies are really related to one set of incidents, then he’s loonier than I thought.

Anvil, you make a distinction between “trying to prove Bible stories” and “not believ[ing] the Bible to be a reliable book outside of its ability to tell us about ancient kings, kingdoms, genealogies, wars, and cities that have been lost.” I’ll go along with that, if you’re sticking to “ancient kings, kingdoms, genealogies, wars, and cities.” However, you’re the one who is trying to prove the existence of mythological creatures (Nephilim, specifically). Why not unicorns, hippogryphs, and dragons as well?

In any case, this topic has now moved from the question of Nephilim (the Staff Report) into a Great Debate (where neither side can prove its contentions, nor disprove the contentions of the other side.) Thus, either get back to the Nephilim or take it to a new topic in Great Debates.

#15

At last! The Staff Report in question makes its appearance, like Bette Davis sweeping into the room still dressed in her riding clothes, unpardonably late, but forgiven nevertheless out of sheer fascination.

BTW, when I asked an Indian how far back the “history of India” goes, his answer was not even close to “40,000 years”.

http://www.anand.to/india/

However, fascinatingly, his very next sentence vindicates you, Anvil, completely.

I interpret this stunning “more than coincidence” to mean that Anand is Annunaki.

:smiley:

[sub]Note: This post is available in a special sarcasm-free format for the sarcasm-impaired. See the Straight Dope Home Page.[/sub]

#16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose *
**I interpret this stunning “more than coincidence” to mean that Anand is Annunaki.

:smiley:

One can only hope. :wink:

#17

And in case anybody’s interested, the “viman”, or “pushpak viman” or “pushpaka viman”, or “pushpaka vimana”, was the flower-bedecked “air chariot” which characters in the Ramayana use to get around in. The Ramayana being, of course, the classic Sanskrit epic poem, and a work of fiction… :wink:

And “Pushpak” or “Pushpaka” is also evidently an Indian first name. This is a “Vedic Names for Baby” website.

http://www.vedicnames.com/Papa%20Two.htm

Lot prettier name for a girl, if you ask me, than “Britny”, which is a province in France, and spelled wrong to boot. :smiley:

[we now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of ancient astronauts]

:smiley:

#18

Of course, to Indians, the Ramayana is NOT fiction. Sounds like Cultural Imperialism…

#19

Let’s talk Nibiru or Marduk, Sitchin’s 12th planet. (He’s three ahead of the rest of us! I have no idea how we’re going to catch up!)

Marduk is a planet larger than Jupiter on a highly eccentric orbit that causes it to shoot through the inner Solar System every few thousand years, causing all sorts of wacky effects–tipping over Uranus, creating moons, etc.

Busy planet, eh? Know what a planet bigger than Jupiter swinging through the Solar System would do to the orbits of the planets? Screw them up royally. Do we see evidence of this? Nope.

Sitchin claims that the asteroid belt is the remnants of a planet, Tiamat, which has was destroyed by Marduk. While it was once thought possible that the asteroid belt was the remnants of a planet that was destroyed, this hypothesis is no longer accepted.

He says that Marduk ripped away a moon of Saturn which became Pluto. Where’d all those frozen volatiles come from then? Not a lot of frozen nitrogen to be found on saturnian satellites, or floating around in space. And whence Charon? Let’s leave alone the difficulty of moving something from the inner solar sytem out to Pluto’s orbit, and capturing it into a stable orbit in resonance with Neptune all through a single encounter with a gigantic planet.

And funny how no culture recorded the passage of such a huge planet. Hey, they have the inside scoop like the Sumerians (who supposedly were informed by the aliens about all the other planets in the Solar System, though they didn’t include them in their system of astrology for some reason) but they were smart enough to notice something bigger than Jupiter which was closer to the Earth and the Sun and thus much brighter than Jupiter. Wanna know how hard it is to see Jupiter? You’ve got a lovely opportunity right now. Go out to your back porch at night. See the brightest thing in the sky other than the Moon? That’s Jupiter. But heck, maybe other cultures did notice it, and it’ll take someone like Sitchin to manufacture evidenc–er, I mean, to discover new meanings in ancient records.

So, from an astronomical point of view, Sitchin’s theory is unadulterated hooey.

The Skeptic’s Dictionary on Sitchin: http://www.skepdic.com/sitchin.html

Be sure to scroll down to the bottom of the article for links.

#20

A quick tour of Google shows a couple of things.

One, that it’s possible Rama was a real person, the way Odysseus was a real person, that is, that there may have been a real person way back in the past whose exploits were immortalized in an epic poem.

Two, that the only people who appear to really believe this are certain Indian scholars. But to the rest of the non-Indian world, it’s a myth.

So it would appear to be an open question, the same way “Is The Odyssey a myth?” is an open question.