The "new" European anti-Semitism

Great Debates
81

Alde,

Over the last two days I have just become increasingly flabbergasted by the significance of your question. You really don’t know anything about the depth, length, and severity of antisemitism in Europe. You really thought that The Holocaust arose de novo and while severe and evil was just a one time bad episode in the tide of history. And I think that it is fair to say that you have a broader experience and education than the average Arab today. And you really didn’t know any of this. Wow. Had you heard of “The Protocols of Zion”? If so, in what context did you first hear of it? Had heard about Jews killing non-Jews for purposes of religious ritual (“the blood libel”)? If so, in what context did you first hear of it? Both are antisemitic stories that have had long lifetimes, that have been used to justify the murders/massacres of Jews in Christian lands, and later imported into Islamic lands where they were used for the same purposes. As recently as the 1970’s King Faisal of Saudi Arabia repeated stated in newspaper interviews that Jews drink the blood of non-Jews to celebrate Pesach. Television shows about “The Protocols” have been rebroadcast repeatedly in Arab media over just the past year, both in Egypt and in Europe. I have a difficult time believing that you haven’t heard of them, and suspect that only your international exposure keeps you from believing their truth. But you’ve had no exposure to the history of the world’s mistreatment of Jews. Again: wow. It explains a lot.

You repeatedly bemoan how ignorant we in the West are of Arab culture. Certainly we are undereducated, and certainly there are large segments of Western society that harbor racist views of Arabs. I cringe at the way Arabs are usually portrayed and at the ignorance displayed by many. I personally have tried to reduce my ignorance some and greatly respect your cultural heritage. I humbly ask that you reciprocate: please try to educate yourself about the history of Jew hating in both the Christian and Islamic worlds. You may come out with a better understanding of why many of us Jews are cynical of the motivations of others and why we are wont to trust ourselves to the good graces of the majority in this world. Even if we still disagree on the nature of today’s reality.

82

I’m going to make this short and sweet since I am pressed for time and energy, sorry for not responding directly to quotes.
As I have stated, I am aware that some of the critisism of Israel is extremely one-sided. I pointed out that my mother was one of the people guilty of it, and how I would always come to the defense of Israel in our discussions. This is a problem. I don’t like it.

However, it seems like some of the posters here represent the corresponding view while blissfully unaware of it. My mother says it’s Israels fault, Sharon is a reactionary and evil man and Israels unprovoked attacks on Palestine ensures there will be no peace. The other side says Palestinians are crazy suicide bombers, and their anti-semitism and fanaticism is the problem.

Me, I’m in the middle thinking both sides are whackjobs. Or at least have leaders that fuel the situation, I’m sure the majority of people would just like to live in peace and get on with their lives. This debate is just completely worthless to me because it doesn’t bring anyone closer to understanding anything, it just fans the flames in both camps and makes people in the middle, like me, think that everyone involved is a partisan idiot and maybe blowing up the whole area and turning it into a praking lot is the best way to go.

Yes, and these people we like to call “absolutely nuts”. Pretty much the same classification I give the orthodox jewish extremists in the occupied territories. Both sides have their share of extremists and fundamentalists, and they are indeed a big problem, that the population in general in EU may be critisising Israel more and more isn’t.

Some of the posts here also happen to be good indications of anti-muslim and anti-arab trends, something that is definetely growing a lot quicker here then anti-semite ones. Pointing toward how some muslims teaches people to beat their wifes is just sad partisan rethorics. If it was unbiased it would point out that both christianity and judaism has a simmilar tradition, the only difference is that the practise of it at this point in time is (probably) more widespread in muslim nations. Demonizing the opponent is the order of the day, but still very counter-productive. I prefer understanding them.

To summarise my opinions, as clearly as possible, to avoid talking past eachother:

  • I don’t think there is a significant rise in anti-semitism in EU. A rise in anti-Isreal sentiment, yes. I actually think there is a much bigger rise in anti-muslim/arab tendencies. I think this is wolf crying from the partisan pro-Israel side.

  • The conflict between Israel and Palestine isn’t served by trying to blame one side. To me it is obvious that both sides are to blame, and without both sides will have to start working towards a solution. The wall being built and military attacks on Palestinians aren’t helping, neither is suicide bombers.

  • Religion is fucked up, I would be happy if every muslim, christian and jew woke up tomorrow and thought “How the hell could I believe this stupid crap? What was I thinking!”. Well I can dream… (not saying that religion is the cause of this conflict, but it sure isn’t helping)

  • It would be better if people could acknowledge both sides of the issue and become enlightened and right, like me! :stuck_out_tongue:

83

Just popping in that as far as I can see I’m in complete agreement with Stoneburg. I think you phrased a careful and nuanced standpoint on this issue.

84

The problem, Stoneburg, is that admirable as all of those sentiments may be, they are none of them particularly responsive to the issue at hand.

For example, it is perfectly possible for there to be both a rise in anti-Semitism and a rise in anti-Arab or Muslim prejudice - they are by no means mutually exclusive; so pointing out that some people, indeed some posters, demonstrate the latter does nothing to indicate whether the former exists.

Moreover, who is at fault in the Israel-Palistine situation, vital as the question no doubt is in general, is irrelevant to the issue under discussion.

The role of religion is another important, yet irrelevant, issue.

The general question is whether there is a resurgance of anti-Semitism in Europe; these other issues are drawn in because some (like myself) have stated that the one-sided fixation, particularly evident in Europe, on Israeli misdeeds is evidence for the thesis. Ultimately, the existence of Israeli misdeeds, and a moral analysis of the conflict there, is a secondary issue. It is a matter of whether the attention focussed on these misdeeds is evidence of anything (which I attempted to address with my analogy above) which is the matter for debate.

85

I asked you make the list because you failed to reflect on it that while persecution of all kinds was present elswhere, there was freedom of religion in Islamic empires during most of its history (broad-brushed).
When you thus come to talk about “Europe” you completely overlooked the fact that the Ottoman Empire became in fact a save haven for not only Jews, but also for Christians who were persecuted by their “brothers”.
I studied European history - in Europe at a Catholic University - and be it that my field is for the greatest part the period linked to Islamic History pre-WWII, I am of course informed about persecutions and racism of all kinds.
You just failed to see where I wanted to go with my question. I think you rather should have thought about my question instead of wondering about it.

No I don’t think that is “fair to say” at all. You sound extremely paternalistic and condenscending here.

I have the text in German. It was of course seen and used as a gift of heaven for Hitler also, who refers to it in among others “Mein Kamp”. (From which I have also the German edition.)
As for the “blood sacrifices”, that is something you even hear these days now and then told as if it is the plain truth by some lunatic who thinks he can play “religious” or other “scholar”. And that isn’t limited to the Arabic World and the USA isn’t free of having this fairy tale spread.
As for you claim about King Faisal, I think you must be confused about that. If I recall well - but it is some time ago wo I can be wrong - there seems to be something published on this by someone who works at the King Faisal University. I’m not particularly interested in what goes on in the Wahabbi sand pitch, if I don’t need it to get or stayed informed. Which I tend to avoid as much as possible.
And sorry but no, I didn’t watch or hear any “repeatedly broadcasting” on those issues on any channel I watch. If there were any I don’t tend to waste my time on idiocies or want to be held informed about such.

I don’t see what all of this has to do with the OP though.

Thank you for insulting my dignity and my intellect and my late parents and those who raised me and those who educated me.

I can come into that quite easily. But that doesn’t mean that there is indeed a “rise of anti semitism” in Europe and certainly not in the dramatical way it is claimed by The Sharon PR.
What I so much dislike in all of this is the continued abuse of the suffering of those who actually died and/or suffered in the Holocaust. I’m not the only one who wonders when this is finally going to come to an end and that is my EU part speaking, as it is in fact most of the time the case when I post on message boards as this one. Many people are sick and tired of this “we are always your victim” blame game of the Zionists.

Salaam. A

86

Alde,
I am sorry that I failed to divne your meaning when you asked me to provide examples of European antisemitism for the last thousand years. Maybe you would be misunderstood less if you stated you thought rather than hinted at it. Anyway, don’t let your defensiveness get in the way. We have had intelligent converstations about the state of education in Arab lands today; a statement that your education seems broader and deeper than that afforded to the average Arabb today has no paternalism in it. It a reasonable supposition.
For a historian you seem awfully quick to ignore the past.

A millenium plus of Jew hating doesn’t just disappear because of one especially violent spasm of it. It still exists in more passively held beliefs by many and to my eyes that comes out in the eagerness to judge Israel by standards harsher than the rest of the world. It is recycled and reimported via some hailing from Arab lands. But most of all you get it wrong here:

Nope. Not playing the victim. Declaring that we will be victims no more. We do not have any reason to trust the good graces and intents of the rest of the world. History has given the world lots of chances to prove itself. We will not be for ourselves alone but we will be for ourselves. Now is the time.

87

Alde,

I’m still curious. When did you first hear of things like The Blood Libel and The Protocols and in what context? When did you first hear of the history of antisemitism other than The Holocaust? Where do these things rate in exposure to the average Arab today?

And please understand, no one here is saying that criticizing Israel is out of bounds. I personally object to teaching Jewish history as a series of victimizations, there is much more to our heritage that gets lost in that over-emphasis. But neither can it be ignored. I take my lessons from history. It informs for the present and future.

88

The only “contact” I have had with “The Protocols” is when they have been brought up as examples of vicious propaganda, in school. Outside the marginalised group of noe-nazis, not many people know about them and those who do will recall it as “nazi propaganda”.

If you bring them up as a historical fact to show how anti-semitism was furthered 60 years ago, fine, but if you use them to try and show some kind of current trend you’re not coming across as serious, nobody except the fringe extremists take the documents seriously and peoples main contact with them is through education about nazi propaganda.

89

Hey Stoneburg,

still wondering if you have any comment on my analogy.

As for the “Protocols”, they are indeed dead as doornails - in the West, officially. This is not true in some other countries, however.

The following is from the MEMRI site:

"On November 6th, 2002, some Arab television channels aired the first segment of a 41-part serial called “A Knight Without a Horse,” which is based on ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.’
The series was slated for broadcast on Egyptian state television, the Egyptian “Dream” channel, Iraqi state television and Hizbullah’s Al-Manar channel.[1][2]

The series, which was produced by Muhammad Subhi (who also plays the lead role), was slated for broadcast last Ramadan but was not completed in time, and is therefore being aired this year. The series sparked protests in the West, with the U.S. State Department calling on the Egyptian government to prevent the broadcast - a demand that was rejected out of hand by Egyptian Information Minister Safwat Al-Sharif. Al-Sharq Al-Awsat reported that the minister reached his decision after viewing all the episodes having to do with the Protocols[3].

The series aroused much debate in the Egyptian and Arab press. Most writers supported the airing of the series, but a few criticized Egypt’s obsession with antisemitic writings.

The series was viewed and approved for broadcast by a committee appointed by the Egyptian Censor. A committee from the Egyptian Radio and Television Association declared the series “a landmark in the history of Arab drama.” The Egyptian Information Minister stated that “the dramatic views expressed by the series contain nothing that can be considered antisemitic.”

So they do indeed have current relevance - though, it should be added, in some places and not in others.

I do believe they are relevant to current European anti-Semitism, because as has been established above, many anti-Semitic incidents can be traced to Europeans who are recent immigrants from countries where the “Protocols” are widely and officially cited. So it is incorrect to assert that they are a relic of the past.

90

Stoneburg,

The question was addressed to Alde, who I am under the impression was raised within an Arab education and media system. Were you? I am honestly curious as to what exposure the typical Arab gets to the history of the world’s treatments of Jews as opposed to exposure to antisemitic bile.

And if only think of them as Nazi propaganda, then you entirely miss the point, and in fact illustrate it. The Nazis did not create them. Jewish paranoia* about the intents of others is not based on the Holocaust alone.

*Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you.

91

I’m sorry, Malthus and WinstonSmith if I sounded like I don’t think French Arabic immigrants are French. My point was that these crimes seem to me to be committed mostly by small groups, usually of Arabic origin. I don’t think its fair to say Europeans are back to their Jew-hating ways because isolated instances of small groups, justly enraged (but not justified, mind you), are acting out.

My ass may be dumb, but I’m no dumbass; I have noticed growing anti-semitism, but not aimed towards Jews. Unfortunately I haven’t met many Israelis but the few I have met I have gotten very well along with and when Sharon will be replaced and the “situation” gets less severe I plan to visit Israel and celebrate with my man Eyal. However, I must admit that in my family there are many Palestinian immigrants so obviously I am a bit biased - but aren’t we all? Except my friend Aldebaran?

I do my best to keep my personal feelings out of any debate regarding Israel and her actions (and, indeed, most debates) but sometimes I fail. In retrospect I understand how my post may have caused you to think I don’t consider immigrants to be “proper citizens” but this is far from being the case. I think my problem may lie with my grasp of the English language (sound familiar? :stuck_out_tongue: ) and I will do my best to make my posts clearer from now on.

92

I don’t know why you come down so hard on poor Alde. I don’t think he has tried to claim there is no anti-Semitism.

I’m not Arabic so I can’t answer for Aldebaran, but I agree with Stoneburg. Few European people know of the protocols and Blood Libel. And those only as examples of anti-Semetic propaganda.

I am convinced it’s there, but am at loss to explain the rising anti-Semitism among non-immigrant left wing Europeans. I’m far from convinced that this anti-Semitism has any deep historic roots. I don’t think current anti-Semitism has much to do with Christian crusaders or Russian prognoms under the Zars and even less with the Nazis. While Jews may have sufferd worse, they are far from unique in having been persecuted or singled out in European history, much everybody has at one time or anther felt the steel boot of his neighboors. If you want to draw these long historic lines you’d have to explain why the Jews apparently are the only ones who still feel it. Also, as European history is American history, you’d have to explain why Europe seem to differ from Canada and the US in this aspect. I think it has more to do with general anti-American attitudes and antiquated Marxist inspired blood lust and adoration for the (Palestenian) rebel and revolution. The same people who are most vocal in decrying Israel, are often found to rail against the facist US, and support all kind of obscure revolutionaries all over the globe.
(Please forgive the spelling errors. I have no spell checker here. I tried to put in revolutionaries in dictionary.com and it gave me revirgination. I didn’t know there was such a thing! ;j )

  • Rune
93

I have no intention of pointing fingers or laying blame; I simply point out the Europe has (as a generalization) a fundamentally different way of viewing its citizens, which is in fact based on ethnicity and not on citizenship.

Your post is simply evidence of this. You say: “My point was that these crimes seem to me to be committed mostly by small groups, usually of Arabic origin. I don’t think its fair to say Europeans are back to their Jew-hating ways…”.

And then you say: “In retrospect I understand how my post may have caused you to think I don’t consider immigrants to be “proper citizens” but this is far from being the case.”

Yet, you clearly in your mind differentiate “groups of Arabic origin” from “Europeans”, and this distinction plainly matters to you.

My take is that Europeans consider people of “Arabic origin” to be citizens in the legal sense (assuming of course that they have achieved citizenship), and eligible to all the rights and privileges thereof; but not “fellow Europeans” in the emotional sense. If a European of “Arabic origin” commits a crime, that crime is not committed by a “European” in such a manner as to have an emotional resonance. That is why it is “not fair” to blame Europeans if some of their citizens attack Jews. They may be citizens by law, but they are not “Europeans”.

Of course, this points out one of the problems which is ongoing. It is not as if Europeans secretly hanker after Hitler. It is more that they do not feel an emotional attachment to those who are not “Europeans” in the emotional sense. Arab immigrants fall into this category. Jews often feel that they do, as well, despite long residence in Europe, and it makes them nervous.

Why? Because in a pinch, people look out for “their own” in an emotional sense. When times get tough, it is easier to abandon those who are not “like you”. This has happened to the Jews of Europe in living memory.

94

Winston,

I am not trying to come down hard on Alde. We misunderstood each other and have gone at cross purposes. That’s all.

Do you really want the thousand word treatise on antisemitism? Short version. Jew hating has been different that what most other groups have occassionally endured. Not per se worse, but different (no competition here). The comparable group is Gypsies perhaps. The key factor being a group amidst many others that percieves itself as a nation among the nations and that fails to comletely assimilate into its host cultures. Jews lasted longer at it than the Gypsies who were of more recent origin, smaller, and were more completely eliminated in the Holocaust.

Less so in Canada and America (but not nonexistant) because these nations are made up of the varied to a greater degree both historically and currently. America is made of many groups that fail to totally assimilate; we stand out less here.

And UselessGit! Get this right. Antisemitism was invented as a replacement word for Judenhass (Jew hating) by a Jew hater who never had any problem with Arabs. It means Jew hating. It does not mean being against all “semitic” peoples. Continuing the word twist/distortion is offensive. Cut it out. Yes there is prejudice among some segments of Israelis - European origin Jews against Arab origin Jews - Arab origin Jews against Arab Moslems - and more. That is not antisemitism. Come up with your own word.

95

I take it you either did not read my preceding post, or do not agree that European citizens of recent Arabic origin are “European people”.

As for anti-Semitism among the non immigrant community, I agree with what you say - though I disagree in part about the importance of the legacy of historic European anti-Semitism.

As I said in my post above, what I think is that in Europe, people are more emotionally tied to ethnicity that they are in (say) Canada. The true legacy is not “Jew-hating”, but indifference towards fellow-citizens who are not, ethnically, alike; they are not “real Frenchmen” or whatever; those who are may not hate them at all, but do not necessarily feel kinship with them.

On the other hand, they are recognizably “European” in every other way - in appearance; in behaviour and education.

So, for those who are emotionally committed to hatred towards the legacy of Europe - call 'em anti-colonialists, or whatever - they make very handy scapegoats, when in Israel. After all, the misdeeds of Israel are the same misdeeds which Europe used to be proud of – colonialism, etc.

The difficulty comes when dealing with Jews who are not in Israel, but who are neighbours. The anti-colonial crowd tends to identify with the oppressed. Unfortunately, the oppressed in this case have absorbed such things as the “Protocols” and other anti-Jewish writings, and often do not differentiate Jews from Israelis - thus, anti-semitic attacks.

Those who are not themselves of Arabic origin thus may not hate Jews themselves, as individuals, but are likely exposed to a conflation of anti-colonialist thinking (from Marxism and elsewhere) which in its modern form targets Israelis as “pseudo-Europeans” above all others and anti-semitic conspiracy thinking (from identification with the oppressed).

Ironically, the latter is second-hand or recycled anti-Semitism. As is pointed out, few non-immigrant Europeans are familiar with such works as the “Protocols”. Many immigrants no doubt are; and the European non-immigrants (the ones who are busy identifying with the oppressed) to an extent absorb their attitudes.

96

“These are isolated instances of Anti-Judaism committed by small groups, often of Arabic origin” Should not be read “It’s the filthy Arabs who are doing this, not us Europeans!”

There is a history of Anti-Judaism (Sorry, we don’t have a word for anti-semitism in my language so Anti-Judaism just sounds more apt) in Europe, yes. And Anti-Christian…ism. What I mean to say is that these instances of anti-Judaic are not, in my opinion, a sign of (or derived from) “‘New’ European Anti-Semitism”

Wait a minute …“New”… :smack: … I think I get it.

I’ve had the feeling all along that this was about the “old” anti-Judaism and how it was resurfacing (sp?)… I know what the OP is but still…

:o …stupid foreigners…

Yes, there has been an increase in European Anti-Judaism recently. I do, however, think that this is only due to the “situation” with Israel and will subside after Sharon goes to wherever he belongs. I just hope Hell has a corner hot enough for him.

On a brighter note, I find myself continually amazed that a poll as irresponsible, pointless and basically stupid as the one in question could have caused all this upset.

I’m very confuzed now so I’ll stop now, have a coffee and read this whole thread through again…

97

You need to realise that the “European” identity is not very strong. It is not like Americans. Someone from Ohio will probably consider themself American first and “Ohioian” or whatever second. Europe isn’t a federation. A frenchman and a bulgarian probably have about the same feeling of kinship as an American and a Mexican.

I didn’t say I only think of them as nazi propaganda, I said they are generally identified (when people know about them at all) as nazi propaganda. This is because the only time they will be exposed to them usually is in school, where they are covered under the history of the nazis. As I recall, it was also explained that anti-semitism wasn’t a new nazi concept but rather an old part of western history, since AD 0 jews had often been persecuted and/or discriminated against. But what will stick in peoples mind is: “anti-semitism = nazi propaganda”. Which is ok by me.

I thought I did comment on it indirectly. The pro-palestine people feel like the world only focus on bad things palestinians do, and support Israel. The pro-Israel people feel like the world only focuses on the bad things Israel does, and supports Palestine. What else is new? I feel like both sides are stupid and not really helping.
Anti-semitism on the rise in Europe

Let me explain to you why most European will argue that this statement isn’t true. As we have said, an anti-semitic minority exists in Europe. Except for the fringe extremists known as neo-nazis it is pretty much made up of arab and muslim immigrants that bring their anti-semitism here from countries where it is more common. The statement that anti-semitism is on the rise here implies that it is growing inside Europe, as far as I can tell, it is not. People aren’t being ‘converted’ to disliking or hating jews here. Europeans aren’t becoming anti-semitic, anti-semites are becoming European. Therefore, someone who is already European will take offence at the statement.

Is it a problem? Yes, all intolerance is a problem, and we should do more about it. And what we should do about it is spend more energy on educating people, more energy on integrating people that move here into our society and culture, and more energy on solving the problems that foster anti-semitism in the first place. Such problems include Israels occupation of Palestine, the spreading of fundamentalism and the huge class-difference in the global economy. It just so happens that the left that is being accused of anti-semitism is the side that is doing the most to stop it.

98

I apologize for not being clear. I never intended to state that people had a strong, pan-European identity, but was using “European” as a catch-all for individual European countries – as opposed to singling out, say, France or Germany.

From now on, I am using “European” in this general sense, unless I indicate otherwise.

May I be excused for thinking that this answer is not really responsive to the analogy? :wink:

Once again, I point out that, from an outsider’s perspective, the insistance that anti-Jewish attacks do not occur “inside Europe” [emphasis yours] is quite revealing. In what way are they not “inside”? Why should people who are “already European” take offence when someone says, “Europeans are committing more and more anti-Jewish attacks”?

Is it not, in fact, literally true?

I suggest I have identified the answer - that people in Europe do not emotionally identify these new Europeans as being “them” in a meaningful way. They are not ethnically European.

I further suggest that, for all of the good intentions of leftist European world problem-solvers, this “at home” problem remains unaknowledged and indeed unrecognized.

Indeed, I will go further. Suggesting that there is one standard of behaviour appropriate for “pseudo-Europeans” like Israelis, and another (far lower) for non-Europeans like Arabs, does the latter no favours. Once again, they are not like “us”, which (in the face of all good intentions to the contrary) robs them of their humanity. This is damaging enough when it is applied to people who live in countries far away. When it is applied to people who actually live in Europe itself, it re-inforces the notion that they are “not as we are” - and inferior in a moral sense.

And that feeling, in various forms, is at the root of all of the troubles under discussion.

99

This one’s easy. Try it with this emphasis then: “Not growing inside Europe”. What I am trying to say is that these people in Europe aren’t learning to hate jews, some people that hate jews are moving to Europe. Do you understand the distinction? Anti-semitism isn’t on the rise here, it’s just being relocated here to some extent (and not even to a very great extent either afaik). They aren’t learning to hate jews here, they hate jews and then they come here.

I bet some of them change when they come here, so I wonder if in fact the total amount of anti-semitism isn’t actually decreasing as a result of people moving to a more secular, open and wealthy place.

Anyway, hope that explains what I was trying to say, your whole post was based on the misunderstanding of my sentiment so I won’t bother replying to it other then to apologise for my lack of communication skills.

100

Well that is wrong to begin with. There is no such thing as EU identity → you need to distinct between the individual countries in about everything you want to come up with → Germany is as different from France as the US is from the EU when talking about “identity” or habits or culture or language or religion… whatever.

You can’t without being completely wrong.
There is no “general” Europe to begin with when you start talking about the individual countries and their population, culture, history.
The EU is not One Big Melting Pot like for example the USA. There is no comparison possible.

[

I think most EU’ers posting here do hope it is indeed.

No, it is not. The simple fact that there are a lot of immigrants involved in this while there are many immigrants who don’t even have the nationality of the country they live in, or have a double nationality, makes this claim already completely invalid.

It is quite the opposite you need to take in account.

Not at all.

I don’t know what you mean with “pseudo-Israelis”.
The fact is that the presence of Jews in EU countries has a very long history and that they are seen as full (born)members of those countries societies. My Jewish friends are Belgian citizens and nothing else. Not in the least they would ever consider themselves as being “part” of the Israeli nation let be that they want to be seen as “pseudo-Israelis”. I don’ t know where you even get the idea.

That is however not the same for immigrants of countries who don’t have such a longterm history of being present in EU societies. They have religious, cultural and family ties with their country of origin since they are indeed immigrants. (And I repeat: this is in no way the case with EU citizens who happen to be Jewish since they are there since centuries and are indeed EU citizens like Catholics, or whatever you may think off.)
There are a lot among those “new immigrants” who indeed “feel” as any other citizen born in their country of residence" = they speak, act and live like other citizens in the respective country. Yet there is even within this majority of non EU immigrants a strong identification with the country of origin and still ties with the country of origin, even if they are third generation and rather would like to cut off all of this. (There is also a very strong social control within those societies).
There was for example in Belgium a young woman of Turkish background on a list of a political party. When it came to election, propaganda was made on Turkish media destinated for the Turkish immigrant in Belgium and urging them to vote for her.
I’m sorry, but that is reality and that is why you can’t talk about such immigrants as being nothing else but “EU’ers”, even when they are that assimilated in society that they are a candidate on a voting list (if I remember well, it was for parliamental elections).
This influence from the homeland (innocent on first sight in this case but nevertheless very striking and one can argue about the significance) can not be excluded when you want to discuss the problem “anti semitism” in a EU context.
And take it from me that in the cases we are talking about here, the influence of “scholars” and “imams” indoctrinated with the Wahabbi doctrine encouraged and payed and send by the Saudis (and we all know under which umbrella those lunatics operate) is to blame for a great part of the problem. I applaud and encourage propositions to organise courses at academic level in order to educate home-born Imams in EU nations. This is in my view an absolute necessity to get rid of the Wahabbi influence (and take that for being a necessity worldwide).

Salaam. A