The Palin Baby Rumor - Proven False?

[Shayna]

@lavenderviolet

The truth is that her doctor evidently gave her the okay to do what she did, so maybe we can dial back some of the hyperbole about her flight being “suicidal”?

No, actually, her doctor is denying giving her permission to fly. From here:

Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.

Of course now, after she did so, the doctor is trying to cover for her by saying:

“I don’t think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back.”

That conclusion is contradicted by other medical professionals, including one quoted in that same story.

Still, a Sacramento, Calif., obstetrician who is active in the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said when a pregnant woman’s water breaks, she should go right to the hospital because of the risk of infection. That’s true even if the amniotic fluid simply leaks out, said Dr. Laurie Gregg.

“To us, leaking and broken, we are talking the same thing. We are talking doctor-speak,” Gregg said.

@lavenderviolet

(Are you aware that for many centuries women gave birth at home without any doctors present at all? Is anyone who chooses a homebirth, waterbirth, or other non-medical form of birth a suicidal nut in your world?)

And for centuries, women have died and lost their babies during child birth for the lack of medical care. We have better ways to mitigate those chances now. Not all home births are dangerous; many happen every day. But if you experience complications at home, you’re much more likely to get to interventive medical care than you are if you’re 35,000 feet up in the air, over who-knows-what-godforsaken part of the country you might be over at that moment.

And lastly, I seriously doubt that many 44 year old women who are carrying an already known high-risk pregnancy are going to choose water birth over hospital birth. To do so would, indeed, be irresponsible.

[Shodan]

So what you are saying is that women are too stupid to make up their own minds about the very private, personal decision of when and how to give birth.

Dumb cunts. We should pass some kind of a law…

Regards,
Shodan

[Jman]

@Shayna

And for centuries, women have died and lost their babies during child birth for the lack of medical care. We have better ways to mitigate those chances now. Not all home births are dangerous; many happen every day. But if you experience complications at home, you’re much more likely to get to interventive medical care than you are if you’re 35,000 feet up in the air, over who-knows-what-godforsaken part of the country you might be over at that moment.

And lastly, I seriously doubt that many 44 year old women who are carrying an already known high-risk pregnancy are going to choose water birth over hospital birth. To do so would, indeed, be irresponsible.

I was just about to post exactly the same thing. I’m sorry…that course of action shows incredibly poor judgment and a willingness to risk her baby’s life for convenience.

[Shayna]

Shodan, would you care to point to whatever specific point I made that gave you that interpretation of what I wrote?

Was it: [ul]
[li]The cite that Palin’s doctor didn’t actually authorize her flying?[/li][li]The cite that medical professionals disagree with the advisability of doing so?[/li][li]The historical fact that women died or lost their babies more frequently before the advent of modern medical care?[/li][li]The fact that home births aren’t all dangerous and the acknowledgment that many of them happen every day?[/li][li]The fact that it’s easier to get to medical care if complications arise when you’re on the ground than when you’re in the air?[/li][li]The assertion that most older women carrying high risk pregnancies aren’t going to opt for water births because doing so would be irresponsible?[/li][/ul] Which one of those, or combination of the above, says, “women are dumb cunts” to you?

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Shodan

So what you are saying is …
Regards,
Shodan

Whenever I see these words, I’m usually 99% confident that they will be followed by a straw man argument, but GEEZ! This is one is just embarassing!

[Lightnin]

@Renob

Or she could just say that the kid is hers, which makes total sense. Oh, wait, she’s done that.

That’s the problem- saying the kid is hers DOESN’T make sense, for the reasons that many of us have pointed out.

Why didn’t she appear pregnant, even right up until she went into labor?
Why didn’t anyone know she was pregnant until she was six months into that pregnancy?
Why did she fly down to Texas for a speech when she knew that she was really close to going into labor?
Why did she fly 7-8 hours after she knew she was going into labor?
Why did she then drive 45 minutes while in labor?
Why was her daughter out so many months for mono?
Why hasn’t she released her medical records when there’s obviously a huge stink about whether she’s the mom?

I mean, come on- none of this makes any sense.

@Renob

Back when this allegedly happened Palin was merely the governor of Alaska. She had no reason to try and conspire to hide her daughter’s pregnancy.

I’m sure the fact that she’s a Republican (you know, the “family values” party) candidate might’ve had something to do with it.

@Renob

In fact, it would have been ridiculous for her to do so. But people like you seem to think that this conspiracy theory makes more sense than the fact that an over-forty woman has a kid with Down Syndrome, so go ahead and think whatever you want. Let me know how the tin foil hat fits you.

I agree. It’s a stupid “conspiracy”. But so are the facts we’re being presented with, should we choose to believe her.

Does it affect her ability to be veep, should the “conspiracy” choose to be true? I doubt it. She’s got other problems, and claiming your underaged/unmarried daughter’s inconveniently-timed baby as your own is a proud tradition. However, I can’t stand hypocrisy in my candidates, and I really have to wonder if the Republicans would be so intent on keeping it a private matter if we were talking about, say, Michelle Obama.

[cosmosdan]

It is just an unsubstantiated rumor at this point. The details still bother me and leave the matter open. It seems with other candidates the pressure would be on them to dispel the rumors by offering proof. If she did that she’d show the rumor mongers to be hateful assholes. Perhaps she feels the accusation is too personal and mean spirited to warrant a response. On Fox and MSNBC they kept talking about the awful vicious rumors that were being spread, dismissing them without any discussion at all.

It doesn’t matter too much since there seems to be plenty of well documented information about her that makes her look bad without this subject in the mix.

Troopergate, Ted Stevens, Library censorship, Poltical firings, Her own wacky pastor, the Alaska secessionists{America haters}, millions in ear marks,

Holy Fuck! She’s got all the problems they’ve been screamin about against Obama and a few others besides.

[RTFirefly]

@Shodan

It’s being pushed by people like you, in threads like this.

Oh, noes!!! Not ordinary people like me, speaking their minds, without any money behind us, without any columnists taking the rumor mainstream, without even any well-known bloggers giving us any oxygen. Omigod!!! It’s real people!!!1!! What’ll we evar do?!

We’ll blame them on Obama!!!

Exactly as I said - Obama gets to have it both ways. He can pretend to be above it, because there are people out there he can rely on to sling the slime and preserve his plausible deniability.

Like I said.

More seriously:

Even though you are perfectly aware that the preponderance of the evidence is that the rumors are false - you are pushing it anyway.

Please to note the thread title: “The Palin Baby Rumor - Proven False?” Yep, I’m arguing that it hasn’t been proven false, though I concede that a preponderance of the evidence seems to be on the other side.

The nerve of these people, to argue such a position!!

Oh that’s right, that would be me.

Even though Obama has said that families, and especially children, ought to be off-limits - you are pushing it anyway.

I hate to get formal twice in the same post, but please to point out where I’ve attacked families or children in this thread.

In fact, I’ve argued - and no one’s rebutted - that the ‘babygate’ allegation puts Sarah Palin in a far better light than her own story does.

If the ‘babygate’ story is true, then Palin meant to protect her daughter, but in terms of a misguided, extremely out-of-date set of values.
And she didn’t risk the life of her unborn child multiple times on April 18 of this year, in what would have been the total antithesis of everything a pro-lifer supposedly stands for.
But she got kinda boxed in when people caught on, and since there were no medical records available to quash the rumor, she felt she had no alternative but to throw her daughter under the bus.

If Palin’s story is true, then she DID risk the life of her unborn child multiple times on April 18 of this year, in the total antithesis of everything a pro-lifer supposedly stands for.
And she put her underage, unwed daughter’s pregnancy front and center, instead of simply revealing her own medical records.

You should be glad that people like me are keeping ‘babygate’ alive, y’know? Because if you’re right, then she’s a slimeball of the first order.

If the ‘babygate’ story is true, then she was merely misguided and feeling kinda trapped, and wound up doing something less than honorable.

You and your kind are far more anti-Palin than I am. Don’t ask me what you have against her - damned if I can understand it.

[Lightnin]

You know, on another forum, somebody presented a theory as to why Sarah might’ve lied about Trig’s origin. I haven’t seen it anywhere else, but it seems to make sense.

Insurance. Trig, as a kid with Down’s Syndrome, is expensive. Bristol wouldn’t have sufficient insurance- or any at all, possibly. Sarah, on the other hand, has excellent insurance- but it wouldn’t cover her grandchild. So… claim Trig as your own, and everything’s covered.

However- now you can’t come out and say that you’re actually the grandmother, as it then becomes insurance fraud… and, of course, it’ll look really bad if you’ve just recently cut benefits for unwed mothers as Palin has.

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t really know much about insurance in general and Palin’s insurance in specific, but this makes a lot of sense. Anyone got any ideas?

[Rachm_Qoch]

@elfkin477

And if you folks are going to keep insisting that there’s something wrong with her not showing much before Trig’s birth, you need evidence. Namely, you need to find photographs taken during her other pregnancies that show her being much more visibly pregnant at 6-8 months than she was this time. There are four other kids, and at least one other was born while she was already a public figure, so it shouldn’t be too hard to find pictures, right? A lot of women don’t show much. No one who wasn’t told noticed that my mom was pregnant either time before her third trimester. (or even then sometimes: one of the neighbors was shocked to see me as a newborn because she though my mom had “just put on a little weight”) And we weren’t little babies like Trig, as the much smaller baby, I was over 8 pounds. Prove that she isn’t one of these women who naturally don’t show much. Prove that this pregnancy is suspiciously different from her others, don’t just insinuate that it is.

FWIW…

Elswhere claimed at 7 mo, but let’s just assume 9:
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0aFc47u3szeI6/Sarah_Palin

vs.

Claimed 7.5 mo:
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0fcQ5EM7gafd9

This proves nothing, of course. Maybe she’s just a grower not a shower.

[MandaJo]

@Lightnin

You know, on another forum, somebody presented a theory as to why Sarah might’ve lied about Trig’s origin. I haven’t seen it anywhere else, but it seems to make sense.

Insurance. Trig, as a kid with Down’s Syndrome, is expensive. Bristol wouldn’t have sufficient insurance- or any at all, possibly. Sarah, on the other hand, has excellent insurance- but it wouldn’t cover her grandchild. So… claim Trig as your own, and everything’s covered.

However- now you can’t come out and say that you’re actually the grandmother, as it then becomes insurance fraud… and, of course, it’ll look really bad if you’ve just recently cut benefits for unwed mothers as Palin has.

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t really know much about insurance in general and Palin’s insurance in specific, but this makes a lot of sense. Anyone got any ideas?

Were she to legally adopt her grandchild, she’d be able to insure him as a dependent, same as any other dependent.

[Sarahfeena]

@MandaJo

Were she to legally adopt her grandchild, she’d be able to insure him as a dependent, same as any other dependent.

Good point. Also, why wouldn’t Bristol be covered under Sarah’s insurance?

[MandaJo]

@Sarahfeena

Good point. Also, why wouldn’t Bristol be covered under Sarah’s insurance?

Many insurance plans do not include maternity care for dependents.

[I_Love_Me_Vol.I]

@Renob

Threads like this are beautiful. They are a stunning example that liberals engage in the same sort of conspiracy theories and character assasination that they claim is an exclusive practice of the right. Please, folks, keep on accusing Governor Palin of faking her pregnancy. I hope you realize that by doing so you are only turning off voters, like my wife, who are Democrats but who do not hold your irrational suspicion that everything anyone who has an “R” behind his or her name is a pathologically evil person.

Do the negative opinions of the posters in this thread really have any influence over your wife’s voting choice? Would she vote for a candidate just to spite some cheeky SDMB rabble-rouser? If I say enough horrible, nonsensical, slanderous things about John McCain and Sarah Pavin can I influence your wife’s vote? Shit, I hope not.

I believe that there are more important criteria for choosing a president than kneejerk emotional responses to message board posts.

[Shodan]

@I Love Me

Do the negative opinions of the posters in this thread really have any influence over your wife’s voting choice? Would she vote for a candidate just to spite some cheeky SDMB rabble-rouser? If I say enough horrible, nonsensical, slanderous things about John McCain and Sarah Pavin can I influence your wife’s vote? Shit, I hope not.

There are a lot of folks in the Democratic party who apparently think otherwise.

@RTFirefly

Oh, noes!!! Not ordinary people like me, speaking their minds, without any money behind us, without any columnists taking the rumor mainstream, without even any well-known bloggers giving us any oxygen. Omigod!!! It’s real people!!!1!! What’ll we evar do?!

We’ll blame them on Obama!!!
Like I said.

And yet everytime folks like you hear about an e-mail rumor that Obama is a Muslim or somesuch, you tend to blow a gasket.

@Euphonious Polemic

Whenever I see these words, I’m usually 99% confident that they will be followed by a straw man argument, but GEEZ! This is one is just embarassing!

And whenever I see this, or Shayna’s apparent inability to understand anything said by anyone besides the Prophet, I am even more sure that the point is irrefutable.

Regards,
Shodan

[Renob]

@I_Love_Me_Vol.I

Do the negative opinions of the posters in this thread really have any influence over your wife’s voting choice?

No, since she doesn’t really have any idea I post here.

Would she vote for a candidate just to spite some cheeky SDMB rabble-rouser? If I say enough horrible, nonsensical, slanderous things about John McCain and Sarah Pavin can I influence your wife’s vote? Shit, I hope not.

I believe that there are more important criteria for choosing a president than kneejerk emotional responses to message board posts.

My point was that all of this idiotic attacks on Palin are turning off voters like my wife who like Obama but aren’t Air America listeners or DailyKos readers.

Anecdotally, while out at dinner last night with another Democratic friend he, too, expressed his dismay at the anti-Palin diatribes that are coming from many liberals. With these over-the-top and ridiculous attacks on her Democrats are making themselves look bad not only to independent voters but also to those Democrats who aren’t as far on the fringe as they. Sure, I don’t expect the majority of folks on this board to buy it, considering that they seem to think GOP=Evil, but that’s fine. Keep it up. It’s good for the GOP’s prospects in November. Lord knows the party can use all the help it gets.

[John_Carter_of_Mars]

@Lightnin

You know, on another forum, somebody presented a theory as to why Sarah might’ve lied about Trig’s origin. I haven’t seen it anywhere else, but it seems to make sense.<snip>

Anyone got any ideas?

Try this for an idea: If Bristol is now five months pregnant, as has been stated, it’s impossible that the four month-old Trig is her baby.

[RTFirefly]

@Shodan

And yet everytime folks like you hear about an e-mail rumor that Obama is a Muslim or somesuch, you tend to blow a gasket.

Since “folks like me” presumably act like me, I’d be delighted if you could provide a cite of the last time I ‘blew a gasket’ over some Internet rumor about Obama that was not being amplified by well-known right-wingers or by people with deep pockets.

[RTFirefly]

@John_Carter_of_Mars

Try this for an idea: If Bristol is now five months pregnant, as has been stated, it’s impossible that the four month-old Trig is her baby.

As I keep saying, we only have Sarah Palin’s word that Bristol is that far along.

[Kalhoun]

@Shodan

There are a lot of folks in the Democratic party who apparently think otherwise.And yet everytime folks like you hear about an e-mail rumor that Obama is a Muslim or somesuch, you tend to blow a gasket.And whenever I see this, or Shayna’s apparent inability to understand anything said by anyone besides the Prophet, I am even more sure that the point is irrefutable.

Regards,
Shodan

But the thing is, I haven’t heard anyone spread a rumor around here. People are wondering why there hasn’t been a definitive statement backed up by documentation, that would make sense of any of this and that would put the issue to bed. I’m fine with staying in the “wonder why an intelligent, mature woman would behave so strangely” camp. There are plenty of incidents that can be discussed; things that are on record, that have a direct impact on my confidence in her abilities. I don’t like her ideas about religion being taught in public schools. I don’t like her ideas about banning books. I don’t like her claims that her camp made regarding some executive decisions with regard to National Guard activities, which it appears are not true. I don’t like that she is rigidly against abortion at all, and I’m downright horrified that she makes no exception in cases of rape or incest.

I have no interest in her daughter’s sex life. I find it odd that they’re telling the world the couple intends to get married when the boy has no interest in raising children right now, but I suppose the marriage component is a must in that camp.

That McCain thought she is best for the country is endlessly baffling. It’s obvious to me that he chose her to win; not because she’s a great patriot who has the country’s best interest at heart. She appears to be a power-hungry control freak with some judgement issues. As someone else said, a big fish in a little pond. Certainly not the best choice given the clean-up work we face. I see her as polarizing and dangerous. I also think the photos of her as a gun-toting bikin-clad sex kitten won’t do much in the way of garnering any level of respect on either the international or domestic front. Yeaaaaah…I bet the Middle East is just thrilled at the prospect of sitting down at a negotiation table with her.

To me it’s obvious McCain chose her to woo the conservative right rather than with the best interest of the nation in mind. Mr. Patriot ain’t all that, and he’s even less now that he’s teaming with Palin. If I wasn’t so afraid that this thing might actually grow legs, I’d be thrilled.