The political discourse could drop to new lows this year

Great Debates
1

I was talking to a [del]friend[/del] (too strong a word) acquaintance of mine yesterday who is a graduate student in political science. Despite claiming to be a registered Democrat, I sat and listened, mostly quietly, to her rant about Obama for almost an hour.

She said (with a gleam in her eye) that the Republicans WILL sweep both houses this fall, and WILL regain the White House in 2012. I pointed out that she might be right about this fall, but it’s far too early to call 2012, considering we don’t even know who will be running yet. I said the big issue will be the economy; if it’s good, Obama will be re-elected, if not, he won’t.

She insisted that the economy won’t matter; the big issue will be “Obamacare.”

When I pointed out that the Republicans’ are just using it as a tool to get re-elected, and will almost certainly shut up about it by next year, she said then the issue will be amnesty. I pretty much quit even trying to politely raise objections at this point because her argument no longer seemed very rational.

She claimed she knew FOR SURE that Obama has lost the 4 states he needs to win:

Florida, because of “Obamacare”
Ohio, because he somehow screwed the steel and coal industries over (:confused:)
New York, for even trying to have KSM’s trial there
And the fourth state and reason is escaping me at the moment, but it was probably Obamacare.

Then she went on to tell me that president Obama is an egomaniac who steadfastly refuses to listen to anyone else’s opinion, and he could’ve been a good president if he moved to the center, but instead he’s moved to the radical left.

Since this woman is fairly well-educated, her irrationality on the subject is particularly worrying to me. I’m fearing more and more that this whole Obama thing is going to wind up bloody, be it his death (2: the number of Facebook posts I saw calling for Obama’s assassination today), a Timothy McVeigh-style act of domestic terrorism, a Hutaree-style militia melt-down, etc.

I see the elections this fall playing out in a couple of different ways:

  1. The Republicans gain seats, maybe even a simple majority, hail it as a mandate, and spend the next 2 years doing absolutely everything in their power viciously attacking Obama, continuing to foster hate and unrest, calling for his impeachment, etc.

  2. The teaparty splits the Republican vote and the Democrats retain most of their power, even though the majority of people hate them. People claim conspiracy, stolen elections, Obama setting himself up as dictator-for-life, etc. Militias use this to try to kickstart armageddon. Obama loses in a landslide in 2012 to an inanimate carbon rod.

Things aren’t looking real good right now to me. I wish the hope and optimism of 2008 was back. I really hope the economy recovers in the next couple of years and these nutcases crawl back into their shells.

2

It seems to me that domestic terrorism is going to have the opposite effect than you imagine. A campaign of right wing domestic terrorism means the collapse of support for the right wing. Remember how Tim McVeigh kicked off a wave of support for the militia movement? Of course you don’t, because Oklahoma City meant a collapse of support for the militia movement. If the Tea Partiers turn violent, then the movement collapses. The End.

3

Won’t bring back the people they kill, if it indeed comes to that, and it won’t actually change any minds, it’ll just embarass some people and calm them down for a bit. And, actually, I’m skeptical if anyone can be embarassed about politics in this country anymore. Seems that no one ever admits their mistakes, they just move on and make the same ones again shortly.

4

I think it would make Fox News STFU - not because its viewers care, but because its advertisers would get antsy being seen associated with a network that appears to support terrorism. Unfortunately, I don’t disagree with you about the ever more radical right doing something awful.
Remember when they had a fit about the report worrying about right wing extremists? The arrests in Michigan show that they were right, even if they were so extreme that they worried other militias.

5

I doubt Obamacare will factor much into anything months down the line. People have short attention spans, and the changes and taxes enacted by healthcare legislation will not kick in by then anyway.

6

This isn’t even a remote possibility.

Again, your friend knows nothing about politics. Even if the trial is held here - and I hope it is - it won’t cost him the state. The trial could snarl some subway traffic but New Yorkers are good at getting on with life in the face of annoying stuff like that. I know you don’t agree with your friend, but this needed to be said.

Intelligent and educated people are capable of being just as irrational as anyone else. And we may have more trouble recognizing it than other people. Don’t make too much of a big deal out of one friend.

When I saw the title of this thread I had two contradictory thoughts: “What, it hasn’t already?” and “Political discourse in the past went a lot lower than you think.” The second one is probably more accurate.

7

Honest discourse is going to go right out the window as more and more Fraudocrats come forth. The put themselves forward as Democrats, but talk of “Obamacare”, the “Democrat” Party, and the ever-vague “taking away our freedom.” As this deceitful practice becomes more common, polls are going to become pretty much useless.

8

How on earth did you get the impression that the woman describes in the OP self-identifies as a Democrat?

9

Why, by misreading the second sentence in the OP, of course. :smack:

10

You didn’t misread it. She told me she is a registered Democrat.

11

I “misread” it too to mean that she claimed to be a registered Democrat, but looking at the text it reads more like you were the one claiming to be a registered Democrat. I guess that would mean that I mis-mis-read it (in this case, two negatives count as a positive :))

12

Good grief.

Seriously, and I’m not trying to insult your friend here but…she should go back to whatever school she is studying political science at and ask for a refund. It’s ALL about the economy. I seriously doubt ‘Obamacare’ is going to be a make or break issue for his re-election. If the economy seriously sucks then that’s going to be a factor. If things in Iraq and/or Afghanistan go completely tits up, or if public opinion swings on the issue, that’s going to be a factor. Obamacare? I don’t see it being an issue by the time his re-election swings around, unless public opinion really and radically shifts on it.

Even then, the economy is going to be the big issue with everything else just being window dressing, and a political science major should know that.

Not a freaking chance will the Pubs gain ‘even a simple majority’. They will pick up some seats, due mainly to change in redistricting, IIRC. I doubt if even most Republicans think they are going to win back a majority.

As to the rest…well, that doesn’t seem must different from what they are doing right now, to be honest. :stuck_out_tongue:

This get’s to far into the crazy for me. I don’t think the Tea Party is going to seriously split the Republicans, and I don’t think we are on the verge of a militia take over, rebellion or any of the rest of it. Personally, I don’t think things are all that much more contentious than they were under Bush…the key difference is the type of rhetoric and who it’s now prodding (instead of who is doing the prodding).

I actually think things are looking marginally better, to be honest.

-XT

13

Which means she did self-identify as a Democrat, so I was right the first time.

What was I being corrected for, again?

14

Look, I don’t agree with the OP’s friend’s views: I neither share her de facto political persuasion nor do I think she is right that the upcoming elections will be particularly dire for Democrats.

However, I don’t think the outrage of hearing from someone who supports a different party than you and who gives minimally plausible reasons for that support in a friendly conversation counts as “the political discourse . . . drop[ping] to new lows.”

15

I was asking where you got the idea - the OP as written didn’t really suggest she was a Democrat with the wording of the second sentence. (Quite the opposite, given her opinions.)

Fortunately for me I can fall back on the lie that I wasn’t correcting you, I was just asking for clarification as to what I missed.

16

I got it right, but for the wrong reason, so I’m claiming the win. :smiley:

17

Why? She could be a blue dog democrat, or a conservative democrat…or she could be a Hillary fan who is still bitter that Obama won. I realize on this board ‘Democrat’ is synonymous with ‘liberal’ (and ‘Obama supporter’), but the Democratic Party is a big tent affair, similar to the Republicans, and not all of those who self identify with one party or the other is going to hold all of the same positions.

-XT

18

Spend a random half hour listening to right wing radio and you’ll hear at least one caller preface their remarks with “I’ve been a lifelong Democrat, but…” and then run off a string of right wing talking points. I don’t know why they do this because it is so obviously fake, but it is common. I heard it yesterday while picking my kid up from school, and I was only in the car for 15 minutes.

19

No, even they do not stoop to worshipping the dark side, as this young woman plainly has.
There’s a lot of liars out there who claim political allegiances they don’t have. This woman sounds like one of them.

20

It’s the same reason why someone says “I’m not a racist, but…”. Being Republican is unpopular enough that not even conservatives want to be tied to the party right now. It’s for the same reason that people call themselves Tea Partiers when they will in all likelihood vote the same way they’ve always voted and support the same things they’ve always supported.