The Racist is back to defend himself...

The BBQ Pit
21

Mugabe is no more a socialist than you are. He is interested in personal power and he was able to find more support among groups that were purportedly socialist than he could among groups that were purportedly capitalist.

Rather than your assertion that socialism ruined Africa, I would say that the mindests of the superpowers (in which they hid behind socialist and capitalist labels as they sought to wield power) has caused the most problems. Heck, in Angola, the “communists” were fighting to defend capitalist companies against the “liberation” of the so-called “capitalists.”

I would tend to agree that those currently flying the banner of socialism are hurting more than they are helping, but I do note that you spend a lot of text on black-on-white hatred rhetoric and that your rejoinders seem as racially focused as that rhetoric.

Given the “anti-marxist” rhetoric that was used to justify apartheid for so long, it should not come as a surprise to you that your racially textured campaign against socialism strikes some people as tending toward racism.

22

Exactly. That such a comparison could be made speaks to just how badly some of the governments of Africa are working today.

** janl** is worse than a racist. He someone who believes that liberals are immoral! :eek:

23

OK, I looked at the excerpts you quoted from me in my Guest book and elsewhere off my website. And I read them and I fail to see what is wrong with any of what I wrote. I read those posts, and yes, they are factually correct and I stand by the opinions and facts in them.

So I am mystified as to the problem.

But more specifically, I will deal with this below:-

>BTW, the US trades with China, and in the past supported the >USSR (during WWII), and Yugoslavia under Tito. What’s your >point now?

China still calls itself COMMUNIST CHINA - the People’s Republic of China. Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe WAS SUPPORTED BY CHINA and is a product of China.

His opposition (whom he beat), were supported by Russia. He maintains relations with BOTH and ordered weapons from BOTH. The Russians flew in 21,000 AK47’s at his request in 2000, and he bought Tanks and various other weapons from China.

>And the last time I checked, Russia is no longer communist.

That can itself be a long debate. But whether Russia remains communist or not, the current ruler is a product of the KGB and he maintains a very friendly relationship with China while SUPPORTING terrorist states like Iraq. If you look closely, you will see Russia is only America’s “friend” in a very deceptive way. Russia and China have long sponsored terrorism - EVERYWHERE - be it the PLO in the Middle East, or the “liberation” of Africa. The Russians are still very cosy with all these outright commies like Cuba and China.

Re: WWII
Churchill hated the Soviets but allied with them because of the need to destroy the NAZIS. No big mystery there. Ditto for America. That meant nothing - look at the conflict in Korea and Vietnam caused by these people.

Look in Angola at Russian, Cuban, East German and other involvement.

If you look at THE HERALD, the main government controlled media in Zimbabwe you will see them referring to people in government, etc as “Cde”. Cde is their abbreviation for: COMRADE. If you listen to their news, etc inside Zim you will hear them continually referring to each other as “Comrad Mugabe” or Comrade so and so. What does this tell you? Among other things?

Maybe, in your mind, Communism is dead. Try becoming a communist one day, then you’ll see it is not dead. Some years ago - about 7 years ago - I spoke to people in the South African Communist Party and I subscribed to their journals and went to book stores FILLED with MODERN COMMUNIST LITERATURE. Communism is dead? Phooey. Go and join the Communist Party of the USA and you’ll see its not dead.

The FBI arrested an American husband and wife a few years back. Both were caught spying for the GRU (Russian Military Intelligence). How did they catch them? The husband and wife were Marxists (communists), and their hero was a guy in South Africa Ronnie Kasrils. Know who he is? He was the Deputy Minister of Defence. (He is a white commie BTW). They sent him a Xmas card. Kasrils is a member of the South African Communist Party and holds a high position in the current government as a minister (one of many commies who do). The FBI laid a trap. They replied to the card and thereby led the American couple into a trap. Later the SA government went crazy because of this. But the core issue was these American communists had a South African government minister, who is an openly acknowledged commie as their HERO.

Communism is dead? I think not. Join a communist organisation anywhere in the world and you’ll see. I subscribed to their literature for years - got bored with it eventually. But communism is alive - more than you’d believe. It just does not portray itself as such a threat any more.

See all those riots at the G8, etc? What is it about? Globalisation. What is globalisation? Just a commie term for American business dominating the world. So now you get commies and fellow travellers inciting violent riots against American businesses. In the “old days” this would have been called “Communist Inspired Violence”.

>BTW, you might want to actually try and put together a rational >argument instead of accusing me of a being a brainwashed >marxist.
I never said you were a Marxist. But I do think you need to learnt to think for yourself instead of just parroting what you hear in the media.

24

december-I’m not even going to start with you. We’ve been through this before, and I’m not going to hijack this thread to deal with your trolling.
:rolleyes:

I’m not saying that things aren’t maybe worse than Apartheid. However, that doesn’t automatically mean Apartheid was a GOOD thing. Or that Blacks should want to go back to those times.

JanL-I think the point we’re trying to make is that you are a GUEST here, like I am a GUEST on your forum-as is Russell Walker, btw. And as such, please try and ease into things, get to learn the rules and the way the place works. Common courtesy.

25

>?Mods- can we move this to GD? I think we can keep this conversation civil.

Please do. I have not flamed anyone, not on my site, not here. I am not some rude animal.

26

I never said communism was dead-I was merely pointing out that you said who ever the US allied with was better than communism-I was refuting your points-since we were allied with Communists. If we were supporting communists, then wouldn’t that mean the communists we were better than communism? (By your statement?)

Comrade? THAT’S your proof! :rolleyes: I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Comrade was around long before communism, and it’s not unique to the Soviets. It merely is another word for friend, or, as a professor of mine from Russia explained-“someone who will always stand by you, in life or in death.” That it was used as an address in a communist country does not make it a communist term! The Bolsheviks called themselves the Democratic Socialist Party, but there was nothing Democratic about them!

Socialism does NOT equal communism.

Look, I think you really could benefit hanging around here. It’s a pretty cool place-there are people on my side of the fence, people on your’s, and everywhere else on the map. However, just try and relax a bit.
As far as my information from the media, how the hell do you know where I get my information? I’ll have you know I have a BA in history, and several of my sources come from books I’ve read, classes I’ve taken, studies done, as well as some of my professors, Dr. Edward T. Brett and Dr. Igor A. Jourin.

Welcome to the SDMB, btw!

27

>Then you come here and accuse me of a personal campain. Not true at all.

I know what you were up to. Many of my supporters e-mailed me and told me what you did on other sites - where you mentioned my name and wrote nasty things about me.

An apology from you would be nice. Then I won’t mention your name again.

28

BTW, I’d like to let the mods know that I did NOT tell him to come here and challenge me like this. I mentioned (pauses to admire sweaty Gregory Peck) that I posted here, and if he liked to debate about various subjects, he might find this a good place to offer his point of view, or at least to read around. I specifically told him about board rules-so I don’t want to get into trouble for this!
Oh, and Jan-you might find the quote function to be useful, as well as our vBB code.

And do you have copies of those e-mails? I’d like to see a cite, and what exactly I said?

29

>As far as your site-I’d say a group of people who refer to Martin >Luther King as a communist have more than a few issues, to >say the least.

OK - have you EVER in any way, shape, form or place seen ME writing a post on my website where I, Jan Lamprecht, say Martin Luther King is a commie?? Hmmmm? NEVER. Show me this.

But, many people visit my site, including many very right wing AMERICANS and THEY WRITE THAT SORT OF NONSENSE. I allow free debate on my site, and I do not censor ANYONE. People can say what they like and I never delete their posts.

>Also, you seem to insinuate that blacks were better off under >Apartheid. Apartheid was evil and racist by it’s very practices.

OK, it is time to educate you in the ways of the real world, not the theory you know of. I’m going to make a statement, and I will stand by that statement because I’ve been there, and I’ve seen these things.

I’m going to say this to you: In 10-20 years from now, BLACK PEOPLE IN SOUTH AFRICA WILL AGREE THAT APARTHEID WAS BETTER THAN WHAT THEY HAD SINCE.

Ok, I was there the day Robert Mugabe came to power. I was there when blacks were dancing in the streets when they said: GOOD RIDDANCE TO WHITE RULE. I WAS THERE. Today, blacks across Zimbabwe say: White rule was better.

I know South Africa - not from some theory of reading something someone wrote in a newspaper - I’ve lived here for 20 years - I’ve seen many parts of it. I’ve been inside townships - I know many things which are NOT in newspapers.

I say to you, that as with the rest of Africa, the day will come when EVERYONE will say: Even Apartheid was better than this…

Today South Africa has the highest murder and rape rate in the world, the economy is stagnating, etc. Blacks are complaining that none of the big promises to them came true, etc. Last year a poll showed that 16% of blacks were already saying Apartheid was better. But WAIT - South Africa is still slowly imploding - WAIT - wait 10 years, wait 20 years.

Then it will be like Zimbabwe.

You think Apartheid was segregation and that was the worst thing in the world. WRONG. When you starve to death and have no job - that is the worst thing in the world. Look at Africa, look at the lesson of socialism in Africa. Look at what it brings.

You keep thinking life in Africa is the same as America. Wrong. We have much more basic problems - things like food and jobs take precedence over the niceties you folks regard as important.

Voting means little when nobody counts your votes. Voting is a minor issue compared to other more life-threatening things.

THIS IS AFRICA - things are different here and people from overseas come here with lots of THEORY which does not cut it and which DOES NOT IMPROVE THE LIFE OF BLACKS.

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this--------------------------->janl Member
appears on my monitor.

31

Take a look at Zimbabwe now, as an example.

Keep in mind, the South African government has hardly said anything bad about him and has done much to keep him in power in recent months. Look at life now for blacks:-
Source: yahoo.com | April 7, 2002 | Angus Shaw

HARARE, Zimbabwe - Sixty-four people arrested after police broke up protests against disputed presidential elections remained in custody Sunday and were denied access to their attorneys, a lawyer said.

Alec Machadehama, a lawyer for the umbrella organization of civic groups that organized Saturday’s protests, said he was denied access to the group’s leader Lovemore Madhuku and 29 others being held at the main Harare police station.

“They are still being detained. I am yet to see them,” he said.

Douglas Mwonzura, a spokesman for the National Constitutional Assembly, said 34 other demonstrators were being held in the provincial capitals of Bulawayo, Gweru and Mutare, also without access to legal advice.

Witnesses said many of those detained were beaten by baton-wielding police during their arrests.

Several were herded into the Harare police station with bruises and cuts and blood spattered on their clothes from baton blows, witnesses said.

In a crackdown on dissent against President Robert Mugabe, police blockaded strategic locations in the main towns to stop the demonstrations called by civic groups demanding democratic reforms.

Police spokesman Tarwireyi Tirivavi confirmed those arrested were accused of violating the Public Order and Security Act under which the protests were forbidden.

Under new sweeping security laws political gatherings of more than three people need to be authorized. Organizers of banned protests face up to two years in jail.

“We are trying to make arrangements so they can be brought to court” on Monday, Machadehama said.

Madhuku tried to coordinate protests from a taxi cab driving around Harare and was arrested while attempting to evade police, Tirivavi said.

The opposition Movement for Democratic Change has rejected Mugabe’s victory over its leader Morgan Tsvangirai in March 9-11 elections as rigged and tainted by political violence and have called for new elections.

Several independent observer groups said the elections were deeply flawed. The United States condemned the vote and the Commonwealth of Britain and its former colonies suspended Zimbabwe for a year.

Mugabe has rejected calls for another election.

The state Sunday Mail newspaper said ruling party loyalists were opposed to talks with the opposition being brokered by Nigerian and South African mediators in hopes of ending the nation’s political stalemate over the poll.

State radio said Sunday Mugabe traveled to Libya on Saturday for talks with Libyan leader Moammar Gadhaffi in which Mugabe thanked Libya for its support of his party.

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>Mugabe is no more a socialist than you are. He is interested in >personal power and he was able to find more support among >groups that were purportedly socialist than he could among >groups that were purportedly capitalist.

In October 2001, (see news articles on my website), Mugabe announced OFFICIALLY that Zimbabwe was “returning to socialism”. He then commented “This is what we had wanted all along.”

I know the history of these people. They worked hard to hide their communism from the West because to do so would prevent them getting LOTS OF FREE MONEY.

But now other problems, like personal power, are causing them to come out more into the open and show their true colours.

I laughed when I read that someone said Mandela was not a commie.

Mandela had a trial, and in that trial was 90 pages of documents in his own hand writing. He never disputed it. One of those documents was entitled “How to be a Good Communist”. In another one he advocated cutting the noses off the faces of traitors. (Later the ANC chose instead to just burn them alive with petrol). Same thing. See my photo gallery to see what Mugabe’s peope did - cutting lips and ears off living people and having others cook the flesh.

You think we don’t know a commie. I tell you, we speak to these people, we ask questions, but you people outside Africa, you think all white people in Africa are liars. We know much more than you think.

I’ll tell you a story. You say its power. I still say its communism. Ian Smith, the last white ruler of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, gave a speech in England some years ago. He told this story. He said he spoke to a senior member in Mugabe’s government and asked him “Why converted you people to communism?”

So this guy said to him: “We [the blacks] were taken to Russia and shown communism there, we were taken to Cuba and shown communism there. We were not impressed. Then one day the Russians said to us: ‘With this system you can stay in power FOREVER.’” And those were the words which clinched the deal.

There is much you people do not know about Africa. Visit my photo gallery at: www.AfricanCrisis.org and check out the photos and attached stories about communism and you’ll see much you never knew of.

33

>Exactly. That such a comparison could be made speaks to just
>how badly some of the governments of Africa are working
>today.

You said it!!!

>janl is worse than a racist. He someone who believes that
>liberals are immoral!
I take it you were joking. But you know, if you appease terrorists then you are immoral. People stand by while others die. See Zimbabwe. 560,000 people are in the process of being murdered through mass starvation right now… I do feel too much of a softy attitude towards the wrong sorts of people amounts to complicity in the crime.

34

Here is an e-mail from one of my supporters, complete with her e-mail address (to check with her), regarding the slander campaign waged against me by Kathi.

From: Lydia R Sherman <mornington@juno.com>

Kathi,

I have seen the foul language you have left on various message boards, and also the things you write to my friend Mr. Lamprecht. You are no lady, and your comments are very offensive. Your spreading lies about him is totally unChristian and unfeminine, and your language is worse than any
prison inmate. I am ashamed to have you posting on the l.a.f. board. Those ladies do not know these things about you. They do not know your foul language habits which you leave on other boards, and they do not know how you slander Jan. If they knew, they would not associate in any way with you on the board. If people treated you the same way you treated them (for example, slandering their reputations all over other boards, and
then swearing like that) you would be in bad shape. Let me ask you, did you do all this BEFORE you took your medication, or AFTER?

If you don’t stop doing this, Kathi, you will be exposed to everyone, and they will no longer believe that you are the sweet ladylike creature that you claim to be when you are on the l.a.f message board. Please retract your words and clean up your act on these boards. You need to apologize for the offenses and stop messing around with other people’s reputations.

Lydia Sherman

35

Unlike the rest of you, I have read through Jan’s site and even listened to his radio interviews that are posted. I conclude that these accusations are unfair and not true. The true racists in South Africa and Rhodeisia are the those blacks who practice brutality to stay in power. These are monsters who mutliate, rape ,and kill those who oppose them, both blacks and whites. Now for those of you who have not studied African History and Culture as I have, you will see that Africa is a country of tribes and each tribe is vying for power, and if you are not a member of the tribe in charge, then you are second class.

No where on his site does he express hatred for the black people or their removal from SA. His hatred is directed toward the socialist and communist blacks and whites who have turned SA and Rhodesia into the hellholes they are today. The whites, Afrikanners and English alike, have been there for several hundred years and in many areas of the country predate the black presence there and have as much or more right to living there.

Jan does not need me to defend himself but I am here to support him.:slight_smile:

36

So instead of having your buddies post here testifying to what a terrible person Guinastasia is, how 'bout you post or link to the allegedly slanderous (or, more accurately, libelous) materials you say she has been posting elsewhere? I ain’t taking your word for it, nor the word of anybody else who can’t be bothered to back up their opinion with some evidence.

Also, the owners of this board frown on reprinting copyrighted material, as you did with that Yahoo news story above. Short excerpts are acceptable as within the fair use doctrine, but if you want to use an entire story, or even a significant portion of it, you’ll have to just leave us a link.

37

Whoa! I go to watch a movie for a bit and this is what happens?

Ah, Sandy-you’re the one who called MLK a commie and a pervert! Nice to see you here.

BTW, you guys MIGHT want to read the rules of this place before you jump in. This is a privately owned message board. We don’t censor people-but we DO expect everyone to abide by the rules.

38

Right, it is immoral to appease terrorists. So, JanL, I hope you’re informing people about the efforts to close the School of the Americas ?

:wink:
Forbin-yes, he’s a member, but aren’t we all Guests of Ed Zotti and the Reader? We’re here at their pleasure, and we have to abide by their rules?

39

I don’t know how others choose to view this, but I see it as a threat.

While not all members of the SDMB like Guin(though I do), she is a known quantity, and a valued member of this board.

You are not only a newbie, but a person who OBVIOUSLY cannot read.

If you could read, you would see that the BBQ Pit specifically states in the description: If you gotta flame, do it here. This is the place for all complaints and other discussion regarding administration of the SDMB.
A flame, if you didn’t know, is vitriolic in nature and may contain some words not allowed on network television.

Guin listed a string of profane invective as a FUCKING joke because it is often expected. It was not directed at you, but to save myself typing energy, why don’t you re-read it and pretend I said it to you.

You may have an issue with her, but I don’t, and I don’t think many of the people here do.

By the by… your “supporter” referred to Guin as “unfeminine” and “unChristian.”

I would laugh at that, were it not so wholly PATHETIC.

Guin a good Catholic from what I have seen, and… well, she seems all woman to me.

Oh… perhaps for a woman to be “feminine,” that means she shouldn’t hold strong opinions or curse.

Hmmn. FUCK THAT.

I’d rather have a woman who is honest and laden with tourette’s syndrome, rather than deal with someone who feels that they have to be a FUCKING Stepford Wife and bow to the patriarchal hegemonic ideas that would support such rampant bullshit.

FURTHERMORE… your “supporter’s” remark on whethere wrote this before or after her meds cruelly slurs those of us who need to be on anti-depressants and other forms of medication.

Fuck you, fuck your “supporter,” and your somewhat twisted views.

40

Yeah, the comment about the “medication”? Low. Really low.

Guin 's one of the nicest people here (imo), and it’s pretty bad to go after her like this.