ok, have thought about it, and the issue isn’t ‘dressed as adults’ but ‘dressed as sexually provocative adults’.
Here’s the link for the asian t=shirt thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=110444
Here’s one of the t-shirts that was sold on eBay. This one went for $61 - a lot of them fetched even more:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=871349463
My appologies blowero. I was not aware of A&F’s previous adventures in the collectibles market and completely misread your post as you point out.
It is indeed strange times we live!
BTW wring you’re still stuck with the question of whether it is alright for teenagers to imitate adults in clothing, or do you think we adults should be better examples and avoid sexually provocative clothes as well, or do you posit that they can immitate only what is not sexy? They’ll love that one!
Sparc
No problem - I shouldn’t have assumed everyone was familiar with that stuff.
THought I’d said this - re: teens and sexually provocative stuff - as a mommy (card carrying), I’m definately against it. Have taught my son for years that before he so much as starts sayin “how you doin’” to a female that he check for : Certified copy of birth certificate; corresponding school records; interview with both mother and medical professional (if any) who assisted at the birth, preferably getting notarized statements from them attesting to the correct age of the aforementioned female.
That being said. Do I think they shouldn’t be sold to teens? no. I dont’ see the point to that.
OTOH - I would provide this admonishment to all males:
My advice to my son is excellent. There are quite a few young persons who are able to (at least for periods of time) appear to be older than they are, and criminal charges can be quite the bitch to fight under the circumstances (claiming that you didn’t know how old she was hasn’t worked in my jurisdiction to the best of my knowledge).
and this admonishment to all those who would attempt to be perceived as older than you are: There’s a whole lotta stuff that can happen, and quite quickly. And sometimes you can have conflicting feelings, or get confused, or scared or simply don’t know how to get out of a situation. So, be very up front w/folks regarding your age, and make sure you’ve got good friends around you.
now, scamper off and play nice. 
wring: There are quite a few young persons who are able to (at least for periods of time) appear to be older than they are
And some of 'em aren’t even trying. I remember back when I was twelve, hearing the mother of my tall lovely classmate Sarah tell my own mother how Sarah had been waiting for her in a lounge down at the community college when one of the college guys struck up a conversation with her. Nothing scary so Sarah just chatted along, and he must have been enjoying it because he asked if she would like to go have a drink with him. “I’ll have to ask my mother,” said Sarah, and even hearing the story at third-hand I got a perfect picture of the guy’s jaw-dropped blank look as he queried, “Your mother??..” I still get a 
out of remembering that one. He must have figured her for at least eighteen, and she didn’t try to dress or act “older” at all.
ok, have thought about it, and the issue isn’t ‘dressed as adults’ but ‘dressed as sexually provocative adults’.
I agree. Prepubescent girl playing “dress-up” in grand Victorian gown with feathery picture hat: adorable. Prepubescent girl playing “dress-up” in hooker makeup, gold bikini, and stiletto heels: eeeeek. Little 11yo HJO in tuxedo at Oscars: overdressed, but cute. Little 11yo HJO in tuxedo collar and cuffs with Chippendales-style marble sack: :eek: !
Maybe it’s cause I’m a mom to a male child, but when I’d originally posted that about HJO in the tux, I couldn’t even think of a comperable ‘sleezy’ outfit for a guy. and here it is.
great.
Excuse me, I have to go wash my brain out with bleach
and maybe some hydrogen peroxide too.
:eek:
Sorry, but I disagree. The kids wouldn’t consider wearing the stuff if it wasn’t out there.
Marketing is done by adults. These adults are the ones creating designs and such, and thus setting trends. So in a way, they ARE pushing the kids to wear provocative clothing.
And I’m not saying that provocative clothing causes teenagers to have sex. And I’m not saying that we should lock our kids up so they can’t have sex until they’re 20 (much as I’d like to 
). I’m just saying that we should be teaching them that there is more to life than sex, and being sexy and attractive to others.
EVERYONE is sexual. Babies and toddlers are sexual, too, they play with their genitals and such. It doesn’t mean they should be able to have sex. The same goes for young teens.
I agree with Tsubaki.I was at my friend’s house last weekend and her 11-year-old little sister was doing the laundry and cracked up completely when she came across my friend’s thong underwear. She couldn’t understand why someone would want to go around “with a rope up their buttcrack”, as she eloquently put it.
Umm, am I the only one here who thinks this is a total publicity stunt dreamed up by a very good marketing department? Every time a clothing company does something like this (remeber the CK jeans adds from a few years ago that looked like cheap porn? It was CK wasn’t it?) all the “parents groups” come out and proclaim their outrage, and in the process they give the companies enormous publicity and instant credit with the kids. The company then pulls the offending item/ad after a little controversy and goes on. It’s like the oldest trick in the book. If everyone would just ignore it, it wouldn’t even be a story or event in the first place. Just my little two cents FWIW.
“I’m a 15 year old guy who has a 13 year old girl friend, and coincidentally, she is all about wearing thongs, tank tops, mini skirts and make up. If her clothing isn’t of the revealing sort, she’s dressed in something that’s attention getting: flashy dresses, punk jewelry, witty shirts.”
Demonspawn, as a 42-year-old man, I would like to thank your girlfriend and the others like her on the behalf of dirty middle-aged and old men everywhere. When I was growing up, seeing a girl’s panties was as rare as an intelligent remark by a fundamentalist. Now it seems like all the young darlings are eager to show the color of their underwear, their butt cracks, and their cleavage. Your girlfriend has brightened our lives and we thank her from… oh, never mind.
“If any of you are surprised to hear this, I’d recommend losing the naivete and sanctimony. Once a person hits post-puberty, they’re fair game on the sexual hunting grounds.”
Ah, yes, post again, will you, when some college kid with smoother technique, much more experience, and more money hits on your girlfriend. I would be curious to hear your opinions then.
To paraphrase James Blish: The sex instinct will take care of itself. Learning calculus, English, and other subjects won’t.
tracer: I am severely disappointed in you. The best equipment is Bracers of Defense AC2 or lower, Boots of Springing and Jumping, a Cloak of Displacement, and a light crossbow. That way, the drunken old men are guaranteed to miss even if they roll 20 on the die, she should be able to run like a bat out of hell (no encomubrance), and then she can pick them off at her leisure.
DemonSpawn52, are you guys honestly having sex at ages 13 and 15???
Good grief. Yeah, when I was 13, I thought about sex. Lots, actually. I even had a sort-of relationship with a guy who was 18 (which I thought was serious but he didn’t, apparently). Am I glad I never had sex then? You betcha. There were so many other things going on in my life then, I didn’t need the extra stress, fun though it might have been. It would have just been one more thing to deal with–and a pretty darned big one, at that. Sex is about more than just the body; without the right care it can mess you up emotionally. It’s not a kid thing!
Yes, pubescent kids are discovering sexuality. They are dealing with all kinds of changes in their bodies and stuff–I watch my little sister nowadays, and realize that she is turning into a young woman. She just got her ears pierced, and she argues with my mom over clothes. Mom doesn’t like some of the things she wears because she thinks they’re too sexy. But the thing is, my sister wears what she wears mostly because that’s what everybody else is wearing. She’s been called names for not being “with it” before. Sure, she’s discovering her sexuality, and I say more power to her–but that’s not the main reason she wears, say, tighter jeans than I do. It’s because her friends all do it. I was raised more conservatively than she was, and when I was 13 I would not have worn what she does now, because I would have been the odd one out and been embarrased. I guess what I am saying is that this “sexualization of children” is something at least partly conditioned in by society. Kids do want to explore sex, but at 12 and 13 the drive to be like their friends is much stronger. If you’re agressively marketing sexual clothing to these kids, they will start to bug their parents for it because it’s cool–all the “hot” older girls on TV do it, after all–and then it becomes a case of “but mom, everybody else is wearing it” when it’s a mostly manufactured desire for the clothing, having more to do with lining the clothing stores’ pockets than the emerging sexuality of the kids.
When my sister’s 16, I don’t care if she wears thongs. If she wanted to now, I guess I would bitch moderately about it. But if she started showing them off to her boyfriend? I’d be Bad Big Sister, coming down hard on the side of Mean Mommie. God, the kid’s got so much more time to finish growing up–she doesn’t need to be worrying about showing up at my medical clinic deciding on birth control. (Do you know how many 14-year-old girls in my town have had babies or abortions in the last year??? That’s a different topic, but it’s scary.)
I think I’m going to support Demonspawn…well, somewhat. I’ve no eek factor related to 15 y.o. having sex. If they physically can and want to, it’s a good enough reason for me (hey! I wished I could, when I was 15). I’m not convinced there are many 13 y.o. who really want to have sex (beside the sexual curiosity and “why not” factors), though. But I can’t exclude that some of them could.
But I still have an issue. Whatever they could think, the overwhelming majority of young teens (at least in our modern western societies) aren’t mature enough to be trusted on two points (at least…perhaps i’m forgetting some others) :
-Their ability to avoid being manipulated, in other words abused. This risk is reduced with a same age partner, though.
-Their ability to be responsible enough to avoid the well known negatives consequences of intercourses (STD and pregnancy)
If I were perfectly sure these 13 y.o. and 15 y.o. could be trusted on these two issues, and that they really have such a desire (as opposed to a misleaded child-like sexual curiosity) well, as far as I’m concerned, they could fuck as much as they want.
The Peyote Coyote: I got the feeling that you were trying to be condescending and clever in your last post. Turns out, you weren’t either.
“Demonspawn, as a 42-year-old man, I would like to thank your girlfriend and the others like her on the behalf of dirty middle-aged and old men everywhere. When I was growing up, seeing a girl’s panties was as rare as an intelligent remark by a fundamentalist. Now it seems like all the young darlings are eager to show the color of their underwear, their butt cracks, and their cleavage. Your girlfriend has brightened our lives and we thank her from… oh, never mind.”
So fucking what? Young girls aren’t supposed to look sexy to all us young guys because slime bags like you may catch an occasional peep? Girls know that if they wear revealing clothing, it’s going to be revealing to everyone. Girls don’t have to wear thongs and mini skirts. If they do, it’s because they think the statement of their sexuality is worth the risk that 42 year old slob’s may get their lives ‘brightened’.
“Ah, yes, post again, will you, when some college kid with smoother technique, much more experience, and more money hits on your girlfriend. I would be curious to hear your opinions then.”
Got a better idea, I’ll post right now. If my girl were to run off with a college guy, I’d say good for them. My opinions wouldn’t change a bit. If she wants to be with someone else more than me, why would I be mad? I had a chance to show what kind of a lover I was, and if I wasn’t good enough, that’s my fault. Then, I can improve myself and find a girl I click with better. I know I have given the impression that I’m only about hedonism, but I do love my girlfriend, and she loves me. We’re not going to be separated by someone just because they have money (even though she is wealthy anyway) or technique (considering how she was moaning last night, I think I got that part down)
Nenya_Elizabeth: Yes, we honestly are having sex at ages 15 and 13.
“Sex is about more than just the body; without the right care it can mess you up emotionally. It’s not a kid thing!”
Maybe I’m unique in this respect, but I don’t put much of an emotional emphasis on sex. I put a huge emotional emphasis on my partner. Emotionally, I’d say she could mess me up, not so much sexual activity.
clairobscur: I agree entirely with you, and you can rest assured I am quite trustworthy and informed on these matters. Unfortunately, this sort of maturity is not unanimous among teenagers, which means parents should be prepared to give guidance.
Ah yes… :sigh: the untried innocence of youth.
Enjoy it while it lasts [b[DemonSpawn52**.
Maybe that is what some people here feel could be a problem with your somewhat younger girlfriends; sex is a sometimes great perk that comes with the not always great phenomena of growing up. One leads to the other and vice versa. Being around 13 and on the fence of childhood and adolescence is a little confusing if I recall correctly. Being an adult at 13 could be a little more confusing, what with the dichotomy involved and all. Then again what do I know, I’m well into my 30s and I still haven’t grown up.
Sparc
Sparc:
“Ah yes… :sigh: the untried innocence of youth.
Enjoy it while it lasts [b[DemonSpawn52**. “
I will.
hmmm, i’m a 20 year old woman, but wear panties and trousers in a US size 0 (yes, zero) does that mean i must be deprived of wearing thong underwear and lowrise jeans because i happen to be the same size as some 12 year old girls?
and since some girls are now hitting puberty at 8…with the hormonal, and emotional changes that means…there are going to be some little girls who want to dress sexy because they already feel sexy.
sorry to be controversial.
do i approve?
nope. but you can’t STOP a woman of any age from wanting to look sexy, if she has the full sexual desires of an adult.
and sexual desire is controlled, not by age or emotional maturity, but by hormones.
you want to stop kids from wanting to dress provocatively, you have to raise the age of menarche back up to 16, like it was 100 years ago.
hormonal therapy and poor nutrition are the ways to go about THAT.
any takers?
So let me see if I understand you: Because of your personal right as a 20-year old to be able to shop in the girls dept., and because some little girls might feel sexy, it is o.k. to sell underwear for 10-year olds with phrases like “sexy”, “eye-candy”, and “wink, wink” printed on them? (I also heard that they include pictures of cherries).
Some 10 year-olds are doing drugs these days. Perhaps A&F should sell crack in the children’s department.
This is scary - I never thought I’d be agreeing with the religious right on an issue:eek:
irishgirl.@YOU are an adult. YOU can legally drink, drive, vote, smoke, get married…in fact you have all the privileges which adulthood brings. Which includes free choice.
Children DO NOT have free choice. If I gave free choice to my kids, they would eat chocolate and snacks all day, play on the road, ride their bikes around blind corners at top speeds and not go to school. Are these things good for them? No. At the very least they would be lucky to still be alive to see adulthood. The difference between kids using free will and adults using it is that adults understand the consequences of their actions and are expected to deal with them.
If you choose to wear thong underwear, then go ahead. If you choose to show your sexuality through what you wear, please feel free to do so. Its your right as an adult. AFAIC, children don’t have that right. Especially NOT children under 12. And not my children under 16.
read my post.
i said i didn’t approve of the thongs in question.
i did say that some kids who are too young to wear them will want to do so because they are physically mature…but not emotionally or psychologically so.
i get that SPECIFICALLY marketing the clothes to 7-10 year olds is wrong, but the company said it wasn’t…at which point dopers said that those sizes were worn by large younger children.
my point was that a large 12 year-old girl could wear thongs in MY size.
an ADULT size.
not specific kiddy thongs.
i’m sorry if that didn’t come across well.
what i’m saying is that you try to dress kids in an age apporpriate way…but at the moment there is a HUGE gulf between the PHYSICAL and MENTAL/EMOTIONAL age of the average 12 or 13 year old.
it’s very hard to tell a young teenager that yes, they should wear a bra for the sake of decency, but no, they can’t wear thongs.
i’m saying you should have the right to insist your money is spent dressing your kids in a way you approve of, just that you have to understand WHY they want to dress sexy…because sometimes they FEEL sexy. like it or not.