I’m with Julian on this one. While I understand the logic of the seizures and forbidding gang members from hanging out, it also makes me distinctly uncomfortable. I think the line between “right” and “wrong” is far, far too hazy, and Mackey and Rawlings are far, far too ambitious to tread that line lightly.
I personally have Aceveda. I don’t think he cares a fig about the moral and ethical problems with the policy. He’s a control freak. He needs to have the power at all times, no matter what. He’s going after the program because he wants Rawlings under his thumb and subdued, and by default, Vic. Anything he can do to humiliate or break her, he’s probably going to do. Why? Because then he’ll continue to be the boss of the Barn–just for the general principle of the thing.
But I think Julian is genuinely uncomfortable with the situation, with good reason–just because they’ve been correct so far does not mean they are always going to be right. Aceveda is using Julian.
Another fine episode, although there haven’t been any bad ones…
Dutch is an idiot. He knows how dirty Vic is and how mean he can be when he wants to. The guy just can’t figure out that he’s not as smart as he thinks he is.
Speaking of idiots, Shane just getting deeper and deeper. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy. But I can’t believe they’re going to write him out of the show. He adds a needed dimension, and it’s all the different dimensions that make the show so good.
I’m still curious about the phone pics of Aceveda from last season. Doesn’t Vic either have the phone or have access to it? That has to come back into play at some point.
The police are aggressively using all the tools at their disposal (using, of course, the laws and legal proceedings of TVLand). The problem is that there are police (and DAs) who too eagerly cross the line. Seizing the house of a guy with 3 pot plants doesn’t sound like good policy, especially when the reason for arresting the man is suspect. Yes, he broke the law. Hell, I probably break the law more often than I should (I think I put out my trash an hour too early Monday). That wasn’t even a quality of life issue.
I think the Captain’s idea to Julian was a good one. If there are other minority officers against the policy, then perhaps he can get enough traction to help set-up a Legal Aid office. This being The Shield, it will bite him in the ass, but that doesn’t make it a bad suggestion. Having minority police out in the community helping like that is great PR.
John Mace, I’m betting on Dutch. He is as smart as he thinks he is, he just isn’t as saavy as he thinks he is. Shane is neither as smart nor as saavy as he thinks he is, and I hope he’s got another show lined up for after this season. In favor of Shane making season 5, however, is that Army seems disposable. Also, I think Aceveda got the camera and it’s out-of-play (probably resold to the Czech SF guy who escaped from Paulie Walnuts and Christopher in the Pine Barrens).
As much as I hate to see the idiot go it’s also one of those situations where we knew Shane was going down a path of self-destruction for a while now and it was just a matter of time. I kind of hope that he does wind up getting offed by Vic simply because it would be a natural conclusion to the story.
I guess it was the point of the writers to have us ponder at what point is the cure worse than the disease.
We all have different ‘squeal’ points where we say that’s going over the line. I fully appreciate the uncomfortable feeling that some Dopers have about the tactics.
I’m just reiterating what I said about the last episode, that Julians 180 is a little too sudden for me. Just seems kind of shoe-horned.
The cops do the same thing over and over, fighting a losing battle. A new captain comes in with some very aggressive ideas, and with genuine concern that innocent people don’t get hurt in the crossfire. Julian goes from standing up publicly for the Captain to working actively against her, in the course of two episodes?
I wonder if Lem will have to kill Shane, and then Vic will cover it up. Or perhaps Army will sell Shane out to either Antwon or Vic or kill him himself, if he realizes Shane is too dangerous and unstable.
I interpreted Julian’s 180 to based almost entirely on him being ordered to smash down the door of a church. It’s been very well established that Julian is hella religious (sorry, couldn’t resist). It was totally in character for him to say, “I am NOT breaking into a church.” Captain benches him (or would it be “desks him”?), and bada-bing bada-boom, he’s disgruntled. Him going to Aceveda was stupid, as David is totally going to manipulate and use him. But it makes some sense – Julian saw the two going head-to-head at the town meeting, he knows Aceveda is in the better tactical position, and he knows Aceveda.
To put it another way, I would say that Julian’s 180 was fast, but not out of character.
My prediction: There’s a big shootout in which Antwan and Army (and a few henchmen) are killed. Vic tells the Captain that Army was the dirty cop (remember they talked about that) and Shane plays along to save his ass. Shane will then be willinglly back under Vic’s control.
I just don’t see Shane getting killed off - he brings too much to the show. If he gets killed I will be very, very surprised.
The plotline I’m still waiting for them to revisit is Dutchboy’s cat killing episode. It seems like ever since he strangled that cat he’s gotten more confidence. Remember he took a box full of kittens home at the end of last season.
I just thought it would end up playing out differently, and over the course of the season. Julian has concerns. The Captain gives him more responsibilty, to prevent abuse. He ends up butting heads with Vic and others more and more. The other cops see him as preventing them from doing their jobs. The black community sees him as a traitor. The Captain uses Julian in every photo op. Julian begins to wonder if he is being utilized for his skills or being used for the color of his skin.
I liked Julian, which is why this plot line is kind of disappointing to me.
The Dutch and cats thing reminded me of another loose end. The tutor/boyfriend. I thought we were supposed to think that something fishy was going on with him and Vic’s daughter. Possibly abuse. Is that one of those things the writers forgot about? Like Tevon?
That sounds fun, too. But I’ve got faith in the writers for The Shield, so I’m going to be optimistic about what they’ll do with Julian.
I like him too, even though he’s been kind of boring recently. The gay cop plotline was a fantastic source of conflict, but that’s sort of petered out (save for the occasional references, like when he uses gay porn to get off at the Sperm Bank last season).
They said that the tutor/boyfriend (I forget his name) moved to Phoenix. I don’t remember them suggesting anything about him and Vic’s daughter, though – it was him and Vic’s wife who were getting it on. Unless there’s another tutor I’m forgetting about?
I watched about ten minutes of the show last night, and opted to turn off the tube. It was something about the scene where the Glenn Close character congratulated everybody about the wad of money they’d made at the expense of the “bad guys,” leaving more money for the “good guys.” I dunno. It seemed cheesy to me, and I opted out.
I liked 24, but never seem to remember to watch it, so I have no idea what’s going on there. I would like to watch a quality show on TV, but don’t really have time so sift and winnow properly, and end up watching nothing.
Give it to me straight dopers. Is “The Shield” the sleeper that I have to give another chance?
So many great discussion points above, I don’t know what to do with myself.
My take on the Shane situation has changed. They can’t get rid of him so soon. For The Shield, Vic killing Shane would be the predictable ending, and that just ain’t going to happen my friends. I say that Army sells out Shane to Antwoine, or possible plans to give him up to the authorities. Shane and Army are in a heated conversation when Army pulls his gun ready to take Shane out. Vic shows up and kills Army first. Shane and Vic find the girls body, then begin plotting their revenge on Antwoine–together.
This obviously leads to huge problems between Shane and Lemon Head.
Dutch’s cat killing and Tevon will probably be revisited at some point, but how many story lines can you spin at once? Some things in life do just seem to fade away after time don’t they?
Aceveda has the phone, and I’m sure that has been taken care of, so we will probably never hear of the phone again. However, Vic knows deep down that Aceveda is dirty, and I’m sure he will start to do some digging when Captain Close and Aceveda start butting heads more severely.
If you dive in right in the middle, many of the sequences and scenes may leave you wondering how good the show is. As is discussed in this thread (and particularly last week’s thread) what is so good about this show are the characters - they have so many sides. And, clearly, you need to see from the first couple of seasons to get that (although I have never seen season 1, myself).
And, of course, not all characters are as well drawn - as a prime example, Glenn Close’s. But she’s also only 6 shows in, whereas many of these characters have 2 or 3 full seasons.
It’s a brutal show. It has virtually no humor. Many of the main characters have serious flaws or are just completely evil. And like anything on TV, some stuff will make you go “nah, that just ain’t real”.
I seem to recall a scene where, Vic daughter said she didn’t like the boyfriend or didn’t want to be alone with him. My wife and I thought were sure Vic was going to have to dispose of a body. Maybe we’re never supposed to really know. See below.
Let me take back what I said about loose ends. Some of them are more head fakes than loose ends. Dutch strangles a cat. Something we never thought he would have the temperment to do. Then he takes home a whole box full of kitties. Does he strangle them as well? Probably not, but no one thought he would strangle the first one either. I think it will be left unresolved on purpose.
I have the same thing is going to happen with Aceveda’s hooker. She’s going to end up strangled. Some things are going to point to Aceveda, but we’ll probably be left wondering.
I thought he just took home one kitten, and that was the resolution of the earlier part where he strangled the cat. To atone for killing one cat, he decides to raise another.
No no, someone else brought in the box of kittens to the precinct to give away. (Remember, Vic labelled it “Free Pussy” and used it to taunt Dutch?) Dutch took one home. As for the atonement thing, that’s just how I saw it, because I doubt he took it home to kill.
But I can’t believe they’re going to write him out of the show. He adds a needed dimension, and it’s all the different dimensions that make the show so good.