For a moment there, I think we all forgot that Smapti was the biggest authoritarian on the Dope. Thanks for reminding us.
Worked in ‘45.
No, Smapti is a more complex character than merely authoritarian. He lives in Olympia, a town that is named for a beer. Olympia is a place that will fuck with your head, even just visiting. I blame it on the influence of Yelm.
The thing is, there are excellent reasons to oppose Trump and the Republican party. Those reasons don’t apply to him and his ilk. For them, the only thing that matters is power: they don’t have it, and they want it. End of story.
It’s going to be expensive in the cost of lives. They’ve already killed people with their rioting while they’re in power. What do you think is going to happen when “their kind, the true Americans” are no longer in power?
Yep. But stripping people who have not committed crimes of their right to vote is not the way to go about it. A free press and competent education are the way to fix the problem.
Voting Republican is a crime against humanity. What part of the fact that the end result of the Republican agenda is the extinction of all life on Earth are you having trouble with?
SOME of them keep talking up a civil war. I want to see how many of them would stand by that if it happened. AND how many would hide.
There were people who would have disagreed with that… the people who fought nazis, and the nazi’s victims in the 1930’s and 1940’s. They would say “the only good nazi is a dead nazi”
Some “people” ARE monsters. What should we do? Coddle them? I’m all for rejection, ridicule, and ostracism. AND banning from public office and law enforcement, if their “views” are so extreme. I don’t want fascists or nazis making and enforcing the laws. Tell ya what. Let THEM stop THEIR attacks and lies and crazy shit … THEN we’ll talk.
Voter disenfranchisement??? Exclusion??? It’s not the Dems or “the lefties” doing that. That is what the “many people are saying voter fraud” and the Voter ID push are all about. And it ain’t coming from us. Trump, Kobach, Sessions, Fox fucking News, et al.
We should start at the top. Shackle the most prominent of them. The rilers. Work down a bit until Medusa’s snakes are all on the ground, barely writhing. You never get below the gorgon’s neck, because its body alone is harmless.
But you post a watch on that neck, lest it start to regrow a new head, because those beasties do not like to give up. We should be tolerant of idiots, we should be trying to help them, to lift them up, and when then stand up on a soapbox to preach intolerance, they should end up with fond memories of their kneecaps.
I am way past sick and tired of their snowflaky whining of “you have to tolerate my intolerance” bullshit.
I fully support antifa.
If the nazis want to bust heads, well then bust THEIRS.
No, that’s really civilization in a nutshell.
We used to be a bunch of savages who raped and murdered anyone we wanted to who was smaller than we were. Might makes right was the only rule, the only law.
Then “we” become more powerful then them, and used that power to dominate them and shape their attitudes and behavior. “We” may not have been as strong as them individually, but by working together, we become more powerful.
We use power to dominate and shape attitudes when it comes to murderers, rapists, and other violent criminals. We have also decided to use power to dominate and shape attitudes when it comes to theft, vandalism, and other property crimes. We have even used the power to dominate and shape attitudes where it comes to responsible citizenry of paying taxes, getting building permits, and stuff like that.
Using power to dominate and shape attitudes is the very basic function of civilization.
Now, there is a legitimate argument to be made as to whether or not the current crop of republicans are enough of a danger to civilization that the attitudes and actions that they express need to be dominated and reshaped, and that is an argument that I can see merits on both sides of. But the idea that using the power of society to reshape attitudes towards more civilized attitudes predates fascism by several millennia.
The true Americans who believe in democracy will vote. That’s fine.
The “true americans” who do not believe in democracy will be violent. That’s fine too, because it means they won’t get to vote anymore.
I agree, but what do you do when the opponent does not agree on those ground rules? When they believe that power is legitimately obtained by disenfranchising voters, by diminishing the free press, and by damaging public education, how do you fight that?
What do you do with people who have no idea how to manage critical thinking, how to form their own opinions, how to reach out to any news that is not spoonfed to them through fox news or right wing radio? They have no reason to suspect that they are in the wrong, every single outlet they listen to is telling them how special they are for following the right wing talking points.
When all you know is the shadows on the wall, reality seems to be the lie.
Now, there are those here that are maybe a bit overly dramatic about their feelings towards what is going on in this country. I don’t know that I can blame them. If I didn’t have stuff to get accomplished, I would probably spend hours every day screaming into the void. So, the idea that there are those who spend their time typing furiously into the void doesn’t really bother me either.
Sure there are those who are out on a ledge. But, the building does seem to be on fire; there certainly is quite a bit of smoke. Maybe we should try putting out the fires before trying to talk people off the ledge, may go better.
This video sums up this thread perfectly…
Cite?
No, really, “everybody says” humans evolved as aggressive and violent and misuses “survival of the fittest”, but what real evidence is there?
The behavior and social structure of modern “primitive tribes”? I would point out that it hasn’t worked for them, now, has it? Cut marks in fossil bones? That could have been a burial ritual, or even if cannibalism, not evidence of violence. Should we accept the theories of social behavior scholars because they are more educated? Or should we admit that even scientists see what they are looking for, and that their social conditioning effects their interpretation of evidence.
Example: the lion pack; it used to be described in terms of the male, as a kind of harem; now it is seen as a cooperative of females, led by an alpha female, who support one male for breeding purposes.
Thank you, I’ll take my answer off-line. (By which I mean I don’t want to hijack this thread, I just want to disagree with one assumption.)
It is a tough argument. Do you resist the seemingly benign beginnings because you can see, with your greater perspective of historical knowledge, the malignant end? Or do you wait until the camel is entirely in the tent and the call is coming from inside the house? Me, I say people of course have a right to be conservative, even dickishly so, but Nazis? Actual, goose-stepping, Hitler-hieling, swastika wearing Nazis? Stomp 'em like roaches. Ditto Klanfolk. I’m a pretty tolerant guy, I’ll even put up with the turd-holders, but you gotta draw the line somewhere.
I don’t know where to post anything anymore, so I’ll just put this here. Maybe I can drag this thread back on topic.
Fox News poll shows Dems with edge ahead of midterms
This part is interesting, and frankly, I’m surprised FOX is reporting it:
:eek:
We are animals. Just like any others. We clothe ourselves in the trappings of civilization and assume that that elevates us above them, but it only does so when we are actually following those trappings of civilization.
Just give people a situation where there are no legal consequences to their actions, and see what they do.
You don’t have to look that far back. Look at roman times, we have extensive documentation about the things that they did that we would consider to be barbaric and horrendous today, and yet, they were extremely civilized and well behaved compared to much of the rest of the world of the time.
Hell, just go back to last century, where we had a nation decide that the rest of the world wasn’t fit to exist, and levied war against it in an effort to exterminate them.
Still practices infanticide. Still practices genocide. Hard to tell exactly how consensual the sex is when there is that much instinct running it, but it’s pretty much rape.
Lions don’t leave written documentation.
I don’t really think of it as an assumption that civilization has progressed over the last several thousand years, but as a fact.
Wow. I’m curious how many Dopers had even heard of the Fabian Society. I only vaguely remember them from circa 1964 when Goldwater was running for President. All I remember is that were too defunct then to qualify as anything but joke; they are 54 years-worth even more defuncter now. But to frighten little kids about the Communist boogey-man Carson scares them with … the Fabian Society ? :eek:
I’ll have to hear some really bizarre but convincing conspiracy theory before I’ll believe that imbecile really could pass himself off as a brain surgeon.
Trump wants to prevent legal green card holders from renewing their green cards if they are on any public assistance. Including Medicare, which they paid into.