Yep, this is beyond ridiculous. Impromptu meeting with pre-made signs.
I’m ready to see him impeached.
I’ve been of the opinion that he absolutely deserves impeachment, but that had to be traded off against the fact that when he is inevitably acquitted by McConnell he will then be able to claim vindication until the end of time.
But if he’s going to threaten the House that they can’t do any investigations into him or else, then they have no choice but to open impeachment proceedings and let the fallout land where it may.
And another “Infrastructure Week” goes by the boards. The running joke just gets longer and longer.
The arguments against impeachment are all political. The arguments for impeachment are moral/ethical/precedent-based. I honestly don’t know which is stronger – I’m leaning pragmatic: which one is most likely to get rid of the bastard and take his party with him.
*best line in the recent film Long Shot: “as fucked as a step-mom on pornhub.”
Yes.
And on the pragmatic side of things; the democrats look more and more ineffectual the longer they don’t use whatever means at their disposal - impeachment, contempt of congress etc. - to put an end to this shitshow.
Fuck “politics”.
I think someone already said it either here or in one of the other related threads; It’s time for the democrats to take the moral/ethical stand and stop weighing the supposed political cost.
Well, that’s the rub, isn’t it?
There’s no way they can put an end to the shitshow by themselves. They need willing Republicans or to win big in 2020. That’s the pragmatism. Contempt of Congress and the various investigations doesn’t end the shitshow - it nabs a few of the rats without doing much about the nest.
There are pragmatic arguments FOR allowing impeachment to proceed, e.g. the evidence is so shocking to the public that Senate Republicans will have no choice but to concede or it rallies the base and the country to do the right thing in 2020 or some other political calculation.
But the idea that the Dems are being ineffectual by not taking this action or that action is pretty fucking stupid. They are currently and have been building solid legal cases against the various players instead of doing the flashy move that plays well in the moment. From the peanut gallery, it seems they are making good strategic plays. Against that, the complaints seem to be they “seem” to look ineffectual.
I guess perception can be a part of power, but many, if not most, of the complaints I’ve seen have revolved around the Dems lacking on style. Well, they have been concentrating on substance. Not that style isn’t important but the “appearance” of ineffectiveness is a bunk argument in my book.
There have been 2 Presidential impeachments in the history of this nation and both have been primarily politically motivated and both failed. There would have been a third (and the only one that would have been successful), but the legal bits were well established before the actual impeachment could come about. And even then it took years to get to that point. Seems like a similar pattern is playing out here. The legal bits are getting established, and it’s taking time to put those bits into play in the right way. If it seems like it’s taking a long time, well, it is, but that’s the way we set up this country. Blaming the Dems for “appearing” weak by laying down the groundwork first before taking decisive action is self-defeating.
That “impromptu” press conference with pre-printed flyers and posters?
That’s how you know he’s playing 4d chess and is always in control - he anticipates like no other …
Half the days I’m pissed at Pelosi for dragging this thing out, the other half I’m admiring of Pelosi for dragging this thing out.
But, as Great Antibob* notes, the Democrats are building a case, brick by brick. Each time the Administration ignores a subpoena, each time they say “Fock you” on Faux News, each time they ignore a legal request, all of that helps lay the foundation for impeachment.
Think of it this way**: You don’t pay your credit card bill. Just refuse to, even though you have a $3k balance on it. Does the credit card company immediately sue you? No, they send out a series of letters and other communications before they ever get to that step so that when they get in front of a judge, who will ask “Did you notify the defendant” they can reply “Yes, here is a list of all our correspondence and demands”. Then the judge turns to you and says “Well…?”
That’s what the Dems are doing. They’re at the “sending demand letters so they can ignore them so we can strengthen our impeachment case down the road” stage.
*What do you have against my Dad, anyway? 
** Saw this analogy on Twitter from some legal eagle, so it’s not original with me.
Nelson Muntz laugh: HA-ha!
NY state passes bill allowing Congress to request Trump’s tax returns
I’m not an accountant and my TurboTax filings aren’t very complicated and most of my federal info gets copied into my state form, so what would be in Trump’s federal filings that wouldn’t show up in his state filings?
But at what point should they start a formal impeachment inquiry? What do they gain by delaying it?
Timing, it seems, is the answer here. Why shoot your wad prior to the election season?
I don’t see moral cowardice. It’s not like the House isn’t trying to do its proper oversight; it’s just that he’s basically saying “Fuck you! Come and get me.” There’s no question there’s a case for impeachment - there was the first week he was in office. It’s a much stronger statement for a democracy if people auditioning to be tyrants can be thrown out of power by 65 million people saying “No, fuck YOU!” rather than a few hundred representatives whose sentiments may or may not be in alignment.
People want to view this as a moral struggle, and I agree that it is. But who put Trump in power in the first place? Was it Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan, or was it millions of deplorables. Sorry, bud, but it’s the deplorables we have to defeat as much as, maybe more than, Trump himself. Maybe not defeat so much as convince that they made the wrong choice in the last election.
Uh, no. Unless you’re going out there, fists-a-ready, I have absolutely no idea what is meant by “it’s the Deplorables we have to beat…”.
Cut off the head, watch the body freak out. Not worried about that - it’ll at least no longer have a head.
Agreed.
It also puts more pressure on the Treasury. Any kind of funny business on his state return is going to get some spotlight now, and it’ll make Mnuchin look dumb the more he tries to stonewall.
I mean by rejecting their version of America. It’s their country, but it’s ours just as much, and we have to make that clear in every election from now on.
And how do you “reject their vision of America” if you allow this President to continue committing crimes?
I mean, seriously, Asahi. “Do nothing, ever” is never a plan.
Where did I say we should allow him to continue committing crimes? I’m not against investigations, but we already know that impeachment - right now - isn’t going to work. It’s just going to backfire on the Democrats and serve as a huge distraction for their 2020 message. That is exactly what Trump and Republicans want, for Democrats to get off message and for voters to come to the conclusion that no matter whom they elect, the only thing that congress can achieve is more partisan bickering and hackery. Yes, Congress needs to keep requesting documents from the president, and I’m a fan of finding creative ways to do that at the state level if they must.
I’m certainly NOT saying never impeach - there may be time to impeach him just yet but there’s no evidence that it’s a good idea right now. If the trade war starts slowing growth and causing unemployment, well then maybe that’s a game-changer.
Point to any plan of action you have endorsed. Because I have yet to see it.
Continue trying to legislate, and work on winning the campaign in 2020, which is just as effective as an impeachment to nowhere. We can talk impeachment once the poll numbers warrant it.
Look at this fuckin joker. Excuse me, I mean so-called president.
(Click the picture to make it bigger if you’re old like me and want to read the signs.)
