It depends on how you fight - that’s what matters.
One thing that is conspicuously absent is mass protest. The president has unabashedly, unashamedly said racist things and threatened to defy a Supreme Court ruling - and that’s just in the past two weeks. I don’t see protesters anywhere. There might be a lot of cute memes and lots of “sick burn” on twitter and facebook, but I don’t see any indications that people are actually in a mood to take to the streets over this.
Unless people themselves are angry enough to send a clear message to congress, I wouldn’t expect House democrats to play with a crystal ball and try to imagine a scenario in which they succeed an impeaching and removing a president when they don’t have any power outside the House.
Fiat justitia et ruant coeli. I’m fine with *acting *righteous in all things and at all times, everything else is surplus to requirements. Conscience is the only thing we’re buried with.
True dat. One cannot preach the straight path while advancing in meanders.
Well one demonstrably can, but one is an asshat in that case :p.
True dat too IMO, but then again I’m French. And not just French - Parisian French. We stage a general strike when the break room’s coffee is lukewarm*. Sometimes it even works.
(*not really. But it’s an historically, notoriously turbulent city)
Yes, there’s a lot of current calculation by members of Congress that would change—radically—in the face of mass protests.
In this case, the ‘heavens falling’ could be far more serious than you dream of.
Indulging a desire—in this case, a desire for the momentary satisfaction of seeing Trump embarrassed—with zero regard for the consequences, is the very definition of “irresponsible immorality.” It’s the opposite of right. It’s the antithesis of justice.
No person with a working conscience would advocate for acting in disregard of consequences.
We’ll see how the polls react in the wake of the tabled impeachment attempt. I predict they will remain pretty much as they are now, and Trump will be no more popular tomorrow than yesterday.
I don’t believe, as some of you do, that a failed Senate trial will “hand the presidency” to Trump in 2020. Again, his support will remain about the same, from the MAGAts and from the “can’t vote Democrat” crowd. I do believe that it will energize the Democratic turnout, as a matter of outrage and necessity.
As a matter of strategy, it’s better to be on the offensive, set the terms, build some momentum, rather than simply continually retreating and hoping that “things will turn around” on their own. It works in war, it works in politics, it works on human psychology and sociology.
Besides, what do you think is the apocalyptic consequence ? That putting forward a motion to impeach is going to lose Democrats the vote of Trumpists in 2020 ? Are you high ? Or, in the case of undecided independants and Democrats, what do you think inspires more : wringing one’s hands complaining that Trump gets to break every rule, every tradition, every fucking law and if a Democrat did half of a percent of what he does the GOP would never let them live it down but doing FUCK ALL ELSE ; or actually standing up and saying “This shit is enough.” ?
You don’t appease, you don’t mollify fascists. You tell them to fuck off, and encourage others to tell them too. You show people that they’re not alone in thinking this shit is getting sorta weirdish ; and that there’s more of the righteous than the monsters. And together you *make *the fascists fuck off.
But all that is calculation of course. And superfluous. Act right, and people will follow you. Stand up, and people will get off their knees. It’s called “leading”. Or they shoot you in the back and gleefully let the whole world burn. You know, whichever. The important thing is you tried :o.
I confess: I tuned in to that goddamn Nuremberg rally, I mean, Trump rally. I figured if I wanted to know what it was like to live in the times of Orville Faubus or Strom Thurmond, maybe I could see it for myself on YouTube. God, some not so insignificant portion of this country is fucking sick, and another not so insignificant percentage seems just plain indifferent.
I would imagine I am not being divorced from reality if I were to assume that out there somewhere is a bigoted sicko who’s taking his cues from this administration and plotting something nasty. The atmosphere reminds me of the early to mid-1990s when AM talk radio shock jocks were speaking to impressionable right wing fanatics like Tim McVeigh.
Of course, enough Republicans might realize that if they vote yea for impeachment in the Senate… it’s not as if they will have to answer to Donald Trump. He’ll be gone.
…I read this post. And a few seconds later I clicked a link off a tweet to this: the day 20,000 American Nazis Descended Upon New York City. The footage seemed so unreal, like a scene from Bioshock 3. But it happened. And now we are holding rallies where the President is listening to thousands of people yelling “send her back” and he just smiles. And nods. And continues.
“Big fucking trouble” almost sounds hilariously understated. But yeah, the USA is in big fucking trouble.
Individual 1’s campaign manager, Brad Parscale, is tweeting about how Individual 1’s rally in Greenville, North Carolina set a new record. 20,000 people! The arena only holds 8000 people.
I, nonetheless, remain guardedly optimistic, in the long-term view. ShitGibbon is like Saturn with respect to Voyager II: we will pass suffocatingly close to him in order to put ourselves on the optimal trajectory.
I learned a word the other day and it seems to fit here. The rational not-RW will gradually gain control of the US and start unfucking the nation. It will be like the birth of real progress, and the current president will be seen as its meconium.
That is some truly scary shit - never knew about this. And to think how much of his scum base would view that and not really have much of a problem with it.
For the ones who would be encouraged by such a step, there are still others for whom impeachment would have the opposite reaction - some would see Trump not suffering any consequences after being cleared by the Senate as an actual exoneration. Others would be disheartened by seeing no real consequences other than some people (once again) saying Trump is a terrible criminal but not having any ability to do much more than formally declaring it. Others would see it purely as a political ploy ahead of the next elections instead of an airing of legitimate grievances. For older voters, Clinton’s impeachment would come to mind - and yes that was purely political.
There is a real chance the actual effect would be net additional votes for Trump in 2020 through some combination of energizing his base to come out and leading those would would vote against him to stay home instead. A large number of people, and not just Republicans, are either ambivalent or antagonistic towards the concept. It’s slowly changing because of how awful this administration is, but impeachment is not a step most people take lightly. And even if they think it’s viable, many do not realize it’s not an automatic ejection from office but rather will result in a trial in the (Republican held) Senate. So, yes, the actual effects are a serious consideration and not so clear-cut. It’s naive and/or ignorant in the extreme to think there is no possible downside.
I’m really not sure what you think the actual end result will be. Possibly not American? Because you seem intelligent, so this seems to be driven more by unfamiliarity with what impeachment entails. To be fair, most Americans also don’t understand with impeachment entails, but most Americans are also idiots.
