I don’t think the Hulk is going to do anything but fall over dead when his very blood is frozen solid, actually.
Ectually…
Lovely scene… Grey Gargoyle turns the Hulk to stone. And then… he starts to move again. Hulk’s got a healing factor. Not as fast as Logan’s, but it’s better to view him as a mystical thing rather than a human being.
The Hulk is seriously hardcore. You pretty much have to vaporize him to kill him, and he’s the very definition of strength in the Marvel Universe. He’s about as strong as a being can be without being cosmos class.
Iceman generally doesn’t do the freezing solid of blood thing, either. Is this a “who’d win?” discussion or a “who’d win if the heroes weren’t limited by their own morality?” discussion? It’s important to know because those are two different things. For example, there are lots of fights that Superman could win easily just by fighting the entire fight with superspeed flight, strafing with his heat vision, but Superman just doesn’t fight like that. When someone says that Superman would win, and they describe such a scenario, they’re really saying that someone with the Kryptonian power set would win, but they’re not really talking about Superman anymore. You dig?
I think you guys are going the wrong way about this. If you wanna know who would win in a fight between two super heros you need to look at weaknesses and not the strenghts. Any chump with a chunk of kryptonite can take out superman, hell a trained dog could do that, thus he should be ranked pretty low. Same with Green Lantern and his thing with yellow (ring doesn’t work against the color yellow does it? at least thats how i remember it) Hulk? kill him when he isn’t pissed.
Johnny and Jessie (Jesse?) Quick have superspeed–I don’t know anything about them, I’ve only heard of them once, but they’re DC characters.
DC’s Impulse has it. Also Quicksilver in the Marvel Universe.
Alright, I’ll give it to you that the Hulk could probably give Icy a run for his money, or any hero for that matter. But I still say that Iceman could slow Hulk down enough to almost counteract the “bezerker rage” attack. After all, Iceman’s much quicker, can get to higher ground quite quickly, and constantly encase Hulk in more and more ice (it doesn’t seem like using his powers make Iceman very tired). I still think that there’s a pretty good chance Iceman could wear the Hulk down. He only lasts as long as his rage, right?
As far as heat manipulators, Iceman could take them out pretty easily. Hit The Human Torch with a solid pillar of ice and he won’t even be concious, let alone on fire.
…And then you’ve got the question of surprise. If Supes knows you’re coming at him with kryptonite, then he’ll arrange to have some sort of lead shield. If Hulky knows you’re coming, he’ll get himself angry in advance. How about this: The two entities are set down in an arena (say, at the antipodes of a suitible (presumably Earth-like) planet) and told that only one of them is allowed to survive the experience (or whatever other criterion we’re using for victory, if we want this to be non-lethal). Each knows that the other is coming for him/her/shim/it, and is allowed to take whatever precautions are deemed necessary and possible in the environment. What then?
Even then, though, we might not get clear-cut rankings. I imagine that there’s a few cases of paper-rock-scissors here, where Hero A can unambiguously kick B’s butt, B can unambiguously kick C’s, and yet, C can unambiguously defeat A. Which of the three do you call the most powerful?
On a side note, where would Doomsday rank in all this? He’s supposed to become immune to whatever attack “kills” him, right? So are we supposed to believe that he’s never been bludgeoned to death before? Or did Supes just knock him out for a really long time? (You know, before tossing him to the end of time and all that.)
Kryptonians have super-senses, including super-hearing. It’s hard to sneak up on a Kryptonian. As Joe Evil approaches our non-Superman Kryptonian, holding his breath and walking [sub]quietly[/sub], the Kryptonian hears the subtle sounds of Joe Evil’s mitochondria doing their cellular thing.
In addition, Kryptonians under a yellow sun/light gravity become super-smart. Most humans are 6[sup]th[/sup] level intelligences. Braniac is a 12[sup]th[/sup] level intelligence. Kryptonians become 8[sup]th[/sup] level. So they’re not all that easy to trick. (Cecil is clearly a 15[sup]th[/sup] level intelligence give or take). So as soon as our Kryptonian hears Joe Evil, he’s already two steps ahead.
And one thing that always gets left out of these scenarios is that a Kryptonian is super-fast…I mean speed-of-light fast. So Joe Evil is approaching with a huge chunk of Green Kryptonite. The Kryptonian accelerates to the speed of light, and flies straight at Joe Evil’s chest. As he gets within 10 feet or so, the Kryptonian starts feeling the agonizing pains of the first stages of Kryptonite poisoning. His powers begin to fade.
His momentum doesn’t.
Within picoseconds, Joe Evil is a rapidly expanding cloud of vapor and goo, the Green K is falling to the ground and the Kryptonian, thousands of miles away and beginning to put on the breaks, begins to feel better.
There was a funny article I read somewhere discussing what would happen if writers dealt with the consequences of super-speed.
Fenris
Oh give me a freakin’ break. Iceman isn’t even in the same ballpark as The Hulk. Hell, he doesn’t even play that same sport. The Hulk has gone up against Wolverine, Thing, the Silver Surfer, Galaxy, Abomination, whole armys, Superman, Shaper of Worlds, Pitt, Juggernaut, he helped stop Thanos during the Infinity Gauntlet, and on and on and on. These are all big time heavy hitters, and while Hulk may not have won every one of these matches, he’s never been all out smashed, and he’s still standing strong. What has Iceman ever done?
I know we seem to be dealing mostly with the DC universe but I always thought that Morph from the X-men could at least stalemate any other super hero, he can transform into anyone else and he even gains their powers. So if there is any hero stronger than the one he is facing he can be them. and if all else fails he can just morph into who he is fighting and use their own power against them, but he has the added bonus of being able to combine all powers by quickly morphing between two different caracters.
Hey, I never said that the Hulk wasn’t any good, I mean, one of the battles you left off the list is, of course, Onslaught himself, and the Hulk more or less won that one. But, just because Iceman has never fought any really big battles doesn’t mean that he isn’t powerful. I think he’s an incredibly underutilized character in that sense. (Though, for people who still keep up with the X-Men universe, Iceman did more or less take on all of the Operation: Zero Tolerance Sentinals)
I think Iceman, given his powers and speed, could at least score some major points against Hulk.
LifeWillFall, of course, brings up an excellent point: Morph. I’m kind of ashamed that I forgot Morph, seeing as how he was my favorite hero when I was a kid. I have to agree with the claim that everybody’s favorite wise-cracking shape-shifter could be up there in the rankings.
How would Dr. Manhattan of Watchmen fame stack up in the DC Universe? Could anyone stop him? (It’s kind of pointed out that his powers are basically God-like).
In KINGDOM COME, Superma goes toe-to-toe with Captain
Marvel. In speed, strength, and endurance, they are equals.
However, it is stated that superman is vulnerable to magic,
as such, the Big Red Cheese brings Supes to his knees by
chucking a couple of thunder bolts at him.
In an instant, Supes uses super-speed to close his han over
Marvel’s mouth, preventing him from saying “Shazam”, thus,
reverting him to the alter ego, Billy Bateson.
Is that Captain Marvel’s only weakness?
The OP reminds me of those Marvel What if? comics. I remember one where they pit Conan the Barbarian and Wolverine against each other and Conan won. I seemed Conan’s fighting-style was too unpredictable for Wolverine, so he beat Logan in hand-to-hand combat. Wolvie obviously healed up pretty quickly.
Also, there are a few Gladiator type matchups that I remember. There was a few good one-on-one battles in the series that Spidey got his black suit. Sorry, I can’t remember the the name. And there was a Marvel/DC matchup once, wasn’t there?
The trade journal, Wizard magazine, had an issue last year: “Last man Standing”. Supes wins against all contenders.
I’m not sure about that. In Wildstorm (a subsidiary of DC with its own continuity) you have the Doctor (a member of the ultra-violent super-hero group called the Authority, who made recent fame in mainstream media when the writer had them drop Indonesia’s president into the waiting machete’s of East Timorese). When the Doctor isn’t busy taking heroin, he is the Earth’s shaman. Time is not an issue for him. When his evil predecessor took over his powers for a short time, the evil Doctor went back in time and sexually molested one of his opponents as a teenager, just for the giggle of freaking her out in the middle of their battle. He then had his brains literally punched out and splattered in the middle of the sun by a solar-powered Superman type. Didn’t even faze him. He was only defeated because he had a 60 minute time restriction on the powers. The powers are now back with the Doctor.
I agree with the Dcotor Manhattan idea too. Its hard to beat a guy who takes a holiday to go and create human life.
Finally, though, you have Lucifer Morningstar, the fallen angel in DC continuity who is second only to God. He runs a nightclub in LA, and in his spare time creates new universes. He’s devious and charmingly dangerous. My money is on him.
What, exactly, are Silver Surfer’s powers? It has been forever since I read those.
You know, damn, I used to have a Marvel Universe collection which was basically a Marvel Encyclopedia. They had stats on all sorts of guys, like strength (or, in most cases, the most strength ever utilized) and so on. Very engaging read. Unfortunately Those comics are in a different state. Someone here has to have them. There were some real bad-asses in there.
First, to Enola: Captain Marvel DC has one huge, glaring weakness – between his ears. He’s about as smart and knowledgeable as a bright 10-year-old boy. The way to beat him (other than trapping him in his Billy Batson persona) is to outthink him. For that matter, if it’s a public fight you can just start shouting to the crowd about what a lame virgin he is, and he’ll run away sobbing and blushing. Farting in combat will cause him to collapse in a fit of laughter. Offer him Pokemon cards and he’ll join your evil scheme.
Next, regarding Dr. Manhattan:
The big picture: If Doc Manhattan felt like it, he could simply make any DC-universe character cease to exist.
Point One: I’m not talking about beating them in a fight. I mean, literally, Jon Osterman could erase all trace of somebody in an instant. Even if you defeat him in the short term, say by stripping away his intrinsic field 
, he can simply recreate himself. For that matter, he’s not bound by linear time: he could (for example) go back and snuff out Krypton a generation early, so Jor-El would never even discover the imminent natural death of his world, much less meet Lara and have little baby Jor. Dr. Manhattan has lost touch with human morality by the end of Watchmen, so there’s nothing stopping him from getting angry and making anybody just … go … away. It’s been suggested by critics that Jon Osterman is, in fact, God. He’s essentially omnipotent and omniscient, and is not bound by linear time. Many believe that when he says he’s going to go create some life, that he in fact went back and created us.
Point Two: The big question is, though, would he feel like it? The mightiest mortal is, to Jon Osterman, the mightiest ant. If pressed, he’s as likely to teleport himself to Cygnus X-1 as he is to engage you in a fight.
Last, regarding Conan of Cimmeria beating Wolverine in anything resembling a normal fight: :rolleyes: I’ll bet you ANYTHING that Roy Thomas and/or John Romita were in charge of that issue. Conan was their boy. Think about it – with the exception of Conan’s superior height, Logan is everything Conan was, with the addition of built-in weapons, unbreakable bones, superhuman strength, senses, and reflexes, and absurd regenerative qualities. Unpredictable combat style? Wolverine fights like his namesake.
Don’t get me wrong: I’ve been a fan of Robert E. Howard’s stories much longer than I’ve even known who the X-Men were, and the idea of Conan beating Wolverine appeals to me. I just don’t see it happening unless Conan gets to start the fight while Logan is tied up and asleep, and is allowed to use a tanker truck full of sulfuric acid as his main weapon.
I would have to say that The Flash is pretty much unbeatable, but he could be outsmarted. IIRC, Superman beat the Flash in a race, which kind of surprised me. I still put The Flash in second.
Doc Manhattan couldn’t travel through time, Cap’n Crude - he could see into the future, but could not affect it - even his own emotional reactions were subject to future events he could forsee (eg. Silk Spectre sleeping with Nite-Owl).
In the What if? of Conan vs Wolverine, Wolvy gets run through, but heals up (in some smooth moves, he also shacks up with Red Sonja). Wolvy later slices off one of Conan’s hands. I called it a draw.
Erislover - the Silver Surfer channels the Power Cosmic. He has a command over an unlimited energy field.
Dale the Bold - the issue where Supes beats the Flash was pre-1987 continuity reboot. Supes is now not able to approach the speed of light, something the Flash does regularly.